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The North really is grim

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Daimler

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This is my point entirely! There are good and bad areas everywhere, you can't overgeneralise.

Saying "north=poor" and "south=rich", is ridiculous.

One strange thing I appreciate about the North West, in particular, is how the depressing areas of East Manchester are so close to luscious hills of the Pennines. I don't know why, but I like how the countryside (sort of) merges into the city.

I think saying that the North has 'stupid accents' is also rather insulting, likewise to any accent.

Indeed - it's also important to remember that the North has towns and cities at least as prosperous as their counterparts 'down South' - Harrogate and York, for instance.

Despite having lived in the in the London commuter belt all my life, I feel more 'at home' in the Yorkshire Dales or north Lancashire/Cumbria - since the first time I visited, I have been completely smitten by the area. I defy anyone to describe the Dales as 'grim' (unless you're out on the moors in the rain in midwinter, of course). The North of England is a wonderfully varied place - and the way - as you point out - the cities and large towns seem to 'merge' into the beautiful countryside is evidence of this.

Perhaps I'm approaching this from the point of view of a visitor, but many people I've spoken to who live in these areas feel the same love for their region.
 
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Greenback

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I might describe Scarboorugh as grim, as I would Margate! It's not because of where they are but the types of place they are!

I wouldn't describe Pickering or Whitby as grim, nor would I describe Salisbury or Swabage as grim either.
 

newbie babs

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So MattE2010 the north is Rubbish. Well you know what don`t go there and then you won`t get depressed.

A Lancastrian I was born and I am as proud of my long Lancastrian roots as I am of being English.
I have lived all over England and Europe and in Lancashire as in Yorkshire (am I really going to say nice things about Yorkshire, forgive me) there is beautiful countryside, fantastic history, architecture, wildlife, not to mention loads of great railway lines.
You do come out with some crap. But then again you have not lived long enough to appreciate where you live.

There is so much more to be depressed about than thinking the North is really grim.
 

table38

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It just struck me that maybe the phrase "it's grim up north" is a myth perpetuated by those who actually live in the north in order to stop the southern softies venturing up here and spoiling it for us :):)

(TWO smilies just in case anyone thinks I'm being Latitudist)
 

WestCoast

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There's always the temptation to believe that 'the grass really is greener on the other side' and yes, sometimes, it can be in certain ways. However, what you quite often find is that it isn't the case and you begin to appreciate things about your original location. The only way for you to realise this is to live somewhere else!
 

Schnellzug

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"It's Grim Up North" was a 1991 single by The Justified Ancients of Mu Mu (The JAMs), the main lyrics of which consist of a list of towns and cities in the North of England, set to a pounding industrial techno accompaniment reminiscent of steam train whistles, all of which segues into an orchestral instrumental of the hymn "Jerusalem". It reached # 10 in the UK Singles Chart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_Grim_Up_North

:|
 

SouthEastern-465

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I've seen some of the posts on here and understand the north in some areas is as equally as bad as its southern counterparts.

I really can't see what's the point of complaining about where you live. You can either accept it or move if possible?


I hate SE London with people stabbing and shooting each other nearly every other day and its gang culture, others being robbed, threatened on quite a regular basis but once you get use to it and live with it(which I do) you become wise and know the way around it and get street wise.


Unfortunately there are others who can't avoid and are stabbed or robbed or get abuse for no reason. That's SE London for you and I assume nasty parts of the north.

I'd rather live in the nice parts of a place and relax than complain about...
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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It just struck me that maybe the phrase "it's grim up north" is a myth perpetuated by those who actually live in the north in order to stop the southern softies venturing up here and spoiling it for us :):)

(TWO smilies just in case anyone thinks I'm being Latitudist)

It needs to be a real Northerner, full of home-grown wise knowledge and black pudding and coming from an area that can boast a station with a certain world-famous "bar", to be able to use the word "Latitudist" to end a sentence.:D:D
 

table38

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It needs to be a real Northerner, full of home-grown wise knowledge and black pudding and coming from an area that can boast a station with a certain world-famous "bar", to be able to use the word "Latitudist" to end a sentence.:D:D

Oh just you wait, I'm busy composing a full rebuttal to your slur on the line from Guide Bridge. Admittedly it's going to be a tough job, but someone has to do it :)
 

WestCoast

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"It's Grim Up North" was a 1991 single by The Justified Ancients of Mu Mu (The JAMs), the main lyrics of which consist of a list of towns and cities in the North of England, set to a pounding industrial techno accompaniment reminiscent of steam train whistles, all of which segues into an orchestral instrumental of the hymn "Jerusalem". It reached # 10 in the UK Singles Chart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_Grim_Up_North

:|

Errrrrr, I am not really sure what to make of that.

I hear Lytham St Annes gets a mention (woo), which is about as far away (economically speaking) from a poor industrial town as you can get. :lol:
 

newbie babs

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Lytham and St Annes have always been known to those that come from around there as the place were people retire to live out their days.
 

WestCoast

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Lytham and St Annes have always been known to those that come from around there as the place were people retire to live out their days.

Although, if you look carefully, there are a few 'sprightly under 60s' about, like myself. :lol::lol:

Actually, it's changed a bit, there are more younger people then there used to be, there are quite a lot of BAE workers and their families from the nearby Warton site and so on. Still, the high elderly population makes the buses very busy!
 

newbie babs

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Its good thats happening, Lytham (especially near the golf course) was always such an "old person" place but then I have not lived there for many years.
 

MidnightFlyer

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Thanks for the replies guys.

The real reason I started this thread was to see what people thought of the North / South divide. I personally, for many reasons listed here, doubt it exists. I started this thread like I did to get debate / arguing going on. I don't personally hold those views, it's a collection of what I have heard / read over the years.

For those of you doubting this, trust me, I personally don't agree with what I said, I love the area I am from, I am a proud Blackburnian. I did it the way I did to get you to take it seriously, to spark some debate.

Strange way of doing this? Yeah, but thanks for the reading, and sorry if you feel I've wasted you're time (I hope some on here at least know I can formulate better arguments.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Its good thats happening, Lytham (especially near the golf course) was always such an "old person" place but then I have not lived there for many years.

On the north side of Blackpool is Thornton Cleveleys with many "retirement bungalows" that were built in the 1960/1970 period. My wife's eldest sister lives there and at 83, is still considered to be one of the younger "girls" in the area. :D
 

WestCoast

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Who knows what the future holds for the 'North'.....

Shale gas firm finds 'vast' gas resources in Lancashire


An energy firm which has been test drilling for controversial "shale gas" in Lancashire has said it has found vast gas resources underground.

Cuadrilla Resources began testing for gas on the Fylde Coast in March, using a technique known as "fracking".

It said it had found 200 trillion cubic feet of gas under the ground, which if recovered could provide 5,600 jobs in the UK, 1,700 of those in Lancashire.

Opponents to the process believe it produces damaging carbon emissions.

A small protest, organised by Campaign Against Climate Change, was held outside The Imperial Hotel in Blackpool on Wednesday, where Cuadrilla met to announce its findings.

Fracking involves the hydraulic fracturing of the ground using high-pressure liquid containing chemicals to release the gas.

Campaigners have warned developing the fossil fuel could draw investment away from the UK's potentially huge renewable industry.

The gas is found in shale formed from deposits of mud, silt, clay and organic matter.
correspondent, BBC NewsThe total amount of gas that Cuadrilla estimates to be in the shale formation it's been exploring is huge.

It's more than 10 times the reserves known to exist under the UK's part of the North Sea - more than the total known in all UK fields, in fact.

But total gas isn't the same thing as useable gas; and how much of it can be extracted is another matter, as the company acknowledges.

Before it can extract any of it, it will have to satisfy the government (and local residents, perhaps) that the process is safe, which might not be straightforward given the association that has been mooted between "fracking" and small earthquakes close to the existing exploratory wells.

Then there is the question of whether the economics work out.

If it is extractable at a good price, there is a large chance that this one field will put a major dent in the government's climate change ambitions, which depend most of all on switching electricity generation to low-carbon fuels - which shale gas most definitely is not.

The process has caused controversy in the US on environmental grounds, where there have been claims from some householders that the subsequent release of gas has caused illness.

There are also claims that the gas itself can pollute drinking water, with footage of people able to set fire to the water coming out of their taps.

In Lancashire, the tests were halted in June when two earthquakes occurred in the nearby Blackpool area.

Cuadrilla said it was expecting to find out within the next 30 days whether or not its work contributed to the tremors. Cuadrilla's chief executive, Mark Miller, said the process would not pose a threat to UK groundwater.
He said the company hoped to drill up to 400 wells in Lancashire to extract some of the gas it had found under the ground in the area.
Mr Miller said thousands of highly skilled jobs would be created, with posts paying an average wage of £55,000.

Cuadrilla hopes to drill as many as 400 wells over the next nine years and up to 800 over 16 years if gas extraction is successful.

Mr Miller said they could be grouped in units of 10 on each football pitch-sized site, reducing their impact on the landscape.

He said each well is drilled and then fracking takes place over several weeks, after which the well can potentially produce gas for up to 30 to 50 years.

"When they are done right, someone driving by on a country road or walking their dog, it will be hard for them to see our sites as they will blend in with the Lancashire countryside," he said.

MORE: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-14990573

The jobs, of course, sound tempting, although one must consider the environmental impacts.
 

The 158 Man

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Someone said about cockney accents making people sound thick? I've got a South London accent you cheeky *******! :lol:

My apologies, I'll rephrase it. It makes some of them sound thick. :lol:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I might describe Scarborough as grim. It's not because of where it is, but the type of place it is!

Hey that's my hometown! It's got some lovely areas!!
 

Aictos

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Excellent news, if this leads to investment and jobs in the North then it should be given the green light.

Certainly gets my support, :)
 

Kneedown

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Look up here. We're broke, full of old, useless industry, have high unemployment rates, and have 30 year old trains. Oh, and stupid accents.

Look at the East Midlands and you'll see exactly the same. Only difference is the North(West) is having pots of money thrown at it with major infrastructure projects and will soon be benefitting from more electrification, whilst here in the East Mid's it's business as usual with our run down railways, always has been, and probably will be for the forseeable.
 

Crossover

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It is that old stereotype, but somehow I agree. The North is rubbish.

Look around the South, you have a great rail network, big businesses, well-paid jobs, more prosperity, wide open countryside, and generally seem to be nicer.

Look up here. We're broke, full of old, useless industry, have high unemployment rates, and have 30 year old trains. Oh, and stupid accents.

People say there is no North / South divide, but when I look around up here, I just see the shell of former glory. It really is rim and depressing up here, hopefully I'm not the only 'Northerner' (though i don't consider myself so) to admit it.

Anyone else?

Well, since I have seen your latest post, I see what you are trying to do, though it is a bizarre way of doing it I must say! I was thinking it was slightly hypocritical for a Northerner to be saying it is an awful place to be :P

Whilst there are quite a lot of large companies down south, there are plenty up here too. Even just in supermarkets (as I can think of that at the moment), Asda have their HQ here (Asda House in Leeds), as do Morrisons. OK, it is no Canary Wharf, but there is certainly enough going on up here. The well-paid jobs in London are also offset to an extent by the higher cost of living too.

There are plenty areas of the south that aren't nice and open etc and plenty in the North that are. Only yesterday I was on the Harrogate line and the viaduct between Pannal and Hornbeam Park has some lovely views (the daily HST would be a great way to get pictures without a window in the way, I thought)...although as you approach Hornbeam Park it all kind of goes to hell :P

We are definitely not all broke up here and actually, our rolling stock ain't that bad! We have 170's and 185's that are new and the likes of 158's that aren't so bad, to name but a few. They don't tend to be in such bad nick either for some of the runs they are on.

Accents are great :D
Proud to have my Yorkshire accent....means southerners usually haven't the faintest :P
Definitely gives an identity, although they aren't all necessarily good :P

I must confess that there is one part of a rail journey that, as a person from North-West England do not like in my own area, is the section from Guide Bridge to Stalybridge that is taken by the First TPE services. It is the very stereotype that MattE2010 was discussing in the thread opening posting.

I don't think it is that bad...but maybe that is just because I like seeing the front of the train from the back, or vice versa :P. Though after Stalybridge it is very nice, especially at low sun on summer evenings...just gorgeous! (see, the North has more open countryside :P)

I might describe Scarboorugh as grim, as I would Margate! It's not because of where they are but the types of place they are!

Oi! Nowt wrong with Scarborough :P

It just struck me that maybe the phrase "it's grim up north" is a myth perpetuated by those who actually live in the north in order to stop the southern softies venturing up here and spoiling it for us :):)

(TWO smilies just in case anyone thinks I'm being Latitudist)

:D :D :D :lol:
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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There are plenty areas of the south that aren't nice and open etc and plenty in the North that are. Only yesterday I was on the Harrogate line and the viaduct between Pannal and Hornbeam Park has some lovely views.

The view down to the river from the train as it passes over the viaduct at Knaresborough on that line is stunning, brief as it is in time.
 

HST Power

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I've seen some of the posts on here and understand the north in some areas is as equally as bad as its southern counterparts.

I really can't see what's the point of complaining about where you live. You can either accept it or move if possible?


I hate SE London with people stabbing and shooting each other nearly every other day and its gang culture, others being robbed, threatened on quite a regular basis but once you get use to it and live with it(which I do) you become wise and know the way around it and get street wise.


Fully agree with this post. Whilst moving may not be easy in the current economic climate, all areas have their bad spots. Near me, we have Stevenage, and I'll be honest I can't stand the place. Its practically a city. There are far too many people living there, the drug deals and stabbings that take place constantly dominate the local papers and the town itself is nothing but a sprawl of arcades, shopping centres and poorly designed buildings.
But I go to Newcastle a lot, and as much as I love the place, it too has the bad spots. Newbiggin for instance is horrible. Cowgate is even worse. I've driven through Cowgate and been shouted at, had things thrown at my car and seen nothing but rows and rows of borded up houses, trashed cars and desperate looking people. Though I much as I cringe when I go past the place, every city, every borough and every county has one just like it.
 

BlythPower

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Who knows what the future holds for the 'North'.....


Mr Miller said thousands of highly skilled jobs would be created, with posts paying an average wage of £55,000.

The jobs, of course, sound tempting, although one must consider the environmental impacts.

Did Mr Miller say anything about squadrons of flying pigs providing air transport in the area, I wonder..? S'funny how, when they're after planning permission, these businesses always promise massive amounts of well paid jobs. Even funnier that the jobs never seem to materialise afterwards...
 
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