The North really is grim

[MidnightFlyer]

It is that old stereotype: the North is rubbish.

Look around the South, you have a great rail network, big businesses, well-paid jobs, more prosperity, wide open countryside, and generally seem to be nicer.

Look up here. We're broke, full of old, useless industry, have high unemployment rates, and have 30 year old trains. Oh, and stupid accents.

People say there is no North / South divide, but when I look around up here, I just see the shell of former glory. It really is rim and depressing up here, hopefully I'm not the only 'Northerner' (though i don't consider myself so) to admit it.

Anyone else?

 

[MCR247]

Ha! Stupid accents! Not as bad as the WM accent though!

 

[strange6]

It is that old stereotype, but somehow I agree. The North is rubbish.

Look around the South, you have a great rail network, big businesses, well-paid jobs, more prosperity, wide open countryside, and generally seem to be nicer.

Look up here. We're broke, full of old, useless industry, have high unemployment rates, and have 30 year old trains. Oh, and stupid accents.

People say there is no North / South divide, but when I look around up here, I just see the shell of former glory. It really is rim and depressing up here, hopefully I'm not the only 'Northerner' (though i don't consider myself so) to admit it.

Anyone else?

What a load of absolute rubbish. I'll think about this post when I'm on my Cumbrian coast tour tomorrow. Hope you sober up soon, Matt!

 

[Metroland]

It's not as simple as that, there are also pockets of the South that have areas of social problems and deprivation. London has some of the poorest boroughs in the country. One of the biggest issues is housing costs mean that most people cannot afford to buy, and have long commutes (hence the better rail network).

There are areas of the North that are quite well off: Cheshire, North Yorkshire, parts of the big northern cities such as Sheffield Hallam, the 11th richest constituency in the country (out of 600).

There are also more national parks in the North, and generally things are cheaper.

 

[table38]

I'm an ex-pat southerner living up north.

I think the quality of life is better up here, houses are cheaper (so is the beer!), less of a rat race, traffic not quite as mental, people are generally friendlier.

It's a conceptual thing though. When I packed in my last job "down south", they started throwing crazy money at me to stay. They really couldn't understand why I'd be happier living up here for less money!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What a load of absolute rubbish. I'll think about this post when I'm on my Cumbrian coast tour tomorrow. Hope you sober up soon, Matt!

Yeah, one railway line means what I say is wrong :roll:

 

[90019]

The North is rubbish.

Are you trying to do anything to change that, or just going to moan about it?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Moan, there's not much one man can do to change an area of 20 million people and several thousand square miles.

 

[the sniper]

Yeah, one railway line means what I say is wrong :roll:

Well you have omitted the hundreds of square miles of beautiful countryside you have in the North, but attributed the densely populated South with 'wide open countryside'.

 

[SWT_USER]

It is that old stereotype, but somehow I agree. The North is rubbish.

Look around the South, you have a great rail network, big businesses, well-paid jobs, more prosperity, wide open countryside, and generally seem to be nicer.

Look up here. We're broke, full of old, useless industry, have high unemployment rates, and have 30 year old trains. Oh, and stupid accents.

People say there is no North / South divide, but when I look around up here, I just see the shell of former glory. It really is rim and depressing up here, hopefully I'm not the only 'Northerner' (though i don't consider myself so) to admit it.

Anyone else?

The grass isn't always greener...

I work in a low paid NHS job and pay an enormous amount of money a year for the privilege of standing up on South West Trains everyday. At least after a rubbish day up north you can enjoy a cheap pint!

The south/ London is very good for going to football away games by train though.

 

[wensley]

I would most definitely class myself as an Northerner and am proud of it!

That post is, basically, a load of rubbish. The rail network in the south meets different needs to the network up north.

As for accents it is a well known fact that the geordie accent is the best around

I will agree with the point made on industry to a degree, the same as other areas involved in primary and secondary industry - destroyed by a certain woman but I aint going to get started on that subject!

In the future I intend to move to London, for a while at least, I love the buzz down there and that's where the money is. However, I may have left the north but the north won't have left me!!

Surely, MattE2010, you must have some pride for where you live?!

 

[WestCoast]

When you say 'South' you are talking about the 'South-East'. When you talk about the 'North', you're mostly talking about industrialised areas of East Lancashire and similar areas. I can tell. You just cannot overgeneralise these things. The 'North' has many 'prosperous areas' (e.g. Cheshire) and more 'down to earth but still good areas', I don't have to name them, perhaps there is less of them than in the South, but that doesn't matter too much in my opinion.

Most of your arguments don't carry any weight on this one. Especially the one about the countryside, which is rather more dramatic in look and often closer to settlements in the 'North'. There are 'big businesses in the North too'. You only have to visit Manchester or Leeds to spot them, granted they are mostly financial, communication and administrative.

 

[wensley]

When you say 'South' you are talking about the 'South-East'. When you talk about the 'North', you're mostly talking about industrialised areas of East Lancashire and similar areas. I can tell. You just cannot overgeneralise these things. The 'North' has many 'prosperous areas', I don't have to name them, perhaps there is less of them than in the South, but that doesn't matter too much in my opinion.

Most of your arguments don't carry any weight on this one. Especially the one about the countryside, which is rather more dramatic in look and often closer to settlements in the 'North'.

For Southerners the North seems to be anywhere above Peterborough. For a northerner, or me at least, South is somewhere South of Manchester and before Birmingham.

For the North I'm talking about the North East, the right side of the pennines

 

[WestCoast]

To be honest, I don't care, I don't have a family tradition from the North, most of my family are either from Scotland or mainland Europe. still I prefer the 'North' when I really think about it.

 

[90019]

Moan, there's not much one man can do to change an area of 20 million people and several thousand square miles.

If everyone has that attitude, then nothing will change.

 

[jp4712]

Seems like a case of 'please do not feed the trolls' to me.

Paul

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Seems like a case of 'please do not feed the trolls' to me.

Paul

How can I be a troll with more than 3,500 posts? hock:

 

[HST Power]

How can I be a troll with more than 3,500 posts? hock:

You have 4,400 posts, the member who said that hasn't even got 50.

Though I have to say I massively disagree with your OP. I love the North. I love the coast, I love the cracking fish and chips they sell in Morpeth, I love the Geordie accents, I love the T&W Metro....mostly Newcaslte stuff, but still Northern!

Just enjoy being as far away from London as you can!

 

[starrymarkb]

North (or at least Midlands) for me starts at Bristol (though it is a relative thing - I can't get much further south without being a fish or French)

The South West is pretty but does have problems, jobs are relatively low paid and are often seasonal while high numbers of retirees moving from more affluent parts as cash buyers have pushed house prices to very high levels and livings costs are high too. Second homes are also a problem as they lie empty for much of the year further pricing locals out of the area while killing the area in the Winter (as the lack of year round occupancy means less trade for local businesses)

I do like visiting friends in the North though, though I've only had snapshots over weekends Leeds, Manchester and Glasgow seemed nice cites. If only it wasn't so expensive to get there *glares at XC's high fares*)

Then there is London which is just horrible!

 

[Metroland]

You have to ask what are the principal differences between the North and South, and why when you get further from the SE people get slightly poorer.

Are the people more stupid? I doubt it. Is the infrastructure not as good, in places no, but generally there are good motorways with low congestion and the rail network is reasonable. Less people are commuting because of more can afford to live in the cities. There are access problems in some cases to other large centres in terms of time (especially across the Pennines and to an extent to London and the SW) which of course HS2 is designed to level, but this is only part of the problem.

The main reason has been industrial decline, which has happened because of things like containerisation and cheaper labour abroad. Over time, the economies of the north will switch more to a service led economy and people will become more wealthy. But it will take entrepreneurial spirit and after that an improving transport infrastructure to get labour to work, and provide the connectivity.

Having said this, it is relative. Whereas people in the South tend to get slighter higher salaries, this is more than offset by higher house prices, more costly goods and higher transport costs (longer commutes and more congestion).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North–South_divide_(England)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Look up here. We're broke, full of old, useless industry, have high unemployment.....People say there is no North / South divide, but when I look around up here, I just see the shell of former glory. It really is rim and depressing up here, hopefully I'm not the only 'Northerner' (though i don't consider myself so) to admit it.

Where to start? Let us look at the area to the north of Blackburn, as this is well known to you. North of the M65, there is countryside of pastoral-type in the west part, especially in the Fylde region, which then changes into the varied landscapes of the Trough of Bowland region. This is very well publicised by the local Tourist Boards and is a source of many visitors to this part of the Nort-West. Look at the countryside around Stoneyhurst College and in the Clitheroe area. I am only citing an area close to you, but I am sure that many other forum members in the North can also give similar examples in their own areas.

In my own area, there is nothing remotely grim. We have the Cheshire Plain and the Peak District and many places that attract countless numbers of visitors, for many differing reasons. We are not just the abode of Premiership footballers. There used to be coal mines in Poynton, but you would be hard pressed to describe that town as grim or depressed these days.

 

[thefab444]

Personally, I prefer the south (NOT the south east, but the south) but then that's where I've grown up. The south east tends to have more slightly grotty but just about livable areas whereas up north you seem to congregate all the grottyness into certain towns and cities.

I've attached another one of my maps to illustrate my view of the cultural/geographical borders.

 

[Schnellzug]

I think it's just as much east-west as north-south. The only new rolling stock FGW has ever had has been the 180s, and they were ordered off their own bat rather than with the help of Government. And what about all those Pendos that whizz to Manchester, Glasgow etc? Yes, the wires will, perhaps, get as far as Bristol in a few years, but that seems to be as far as they're likely to.

 

[Metroland]

Not a bad map but I'm not sure the NE starts just north of Peterborough - Probably about Northallerton!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_East_England

In general, the North starts around Crewe/Retford

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_England

South of there you are in the Midlands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midlands_(England)

Having lived in a lot of areas of the country and travelled around a lot, there are a lot of cultural difference though. The North East, for instance is very different from the South East in particular.

In terms of the Economic divide it can be defined as follows:

Although Some of this is highly debatable, the Worcester area is most definitely southern to me, and Nottingham feels more Southern than Northern as does Birmingham and Coventry. Stoke, defined in the Midlands feels Northern.

 

[starrymarkb]

I think it's just as much east-west as north-south.

Very true. The South East is vastly different to the South West in terms of Economic Performance

 

[Aictos]

I would most definitely class myself as an Northerner and am proud of it!

As for accents it is a well known fact that the geordie accent is the best around

Nah, the best accents around are from Lancashire, Glasgow and Edinburgh

 

[142094]

Have to say that I've been to a lot of places in 'the North' taht some people will think are crap, yet parts of London and the south are bigger sh*it-holes than up here.

I'm more than happy living where I do. I certainly wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

 

[Metroland]

Have to say that I've been to a lot of places in 'the North' taht some people will think are crap, yet parts of London and the south are bigger sh*it-holes than up here.

I definitely agree with that. There are large estates in southern towns that are definitely every bit as bad as places in the North. There are some completely souless southern towns, I'll resist naming them but they exist in parts of the M1 corridor, the parts of the south coast, parts of essex, bits of the West Midlands etc

Most people from the south are pleasantly surprised by Nottingham, Leeds, Newcastle and Manchester (at least the centres), York, Harrogate, Lincoln, Chester etc

 

[Mojo]

What about Cornwall on that Map? One of the poorest counties in the country so much so that it meets the criteria for EU poverty funding (Convergence funds and before that Objective One). It is no surprise that many in the South West believe there is a Northern bias when it comes to UK government funding for infrastructure!

Why not take a look at the maps in the press release for this (2006) report? http://www.localfutures.com/Assets/1592/well-being barometer.pdf It seems that the 'north-south' divide is less pronounced than one may think. Even so, I think the map is split down to District Council/Unitary Authority level and this doesn't show the full picture as parts of Birmingham City have very high unemployment (highest in the country) yet are well mixed with affluent areas like Sutton Coldfield. In the South, Aylesbury is very wealthy yet I wouldn't want to live in Walton Court or Southcourt.

As to where the North and South is, I base my own personal view on the 9 English regions; South West, South East, London and the East are in ''the South'' and the rest are in ''the North.''

 

[The 158 Man]

I'm from the North, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere 'darn sarf'. I take particular offence from the OP that says we have "stupid accents".

Whenever I go to London I feel like a foreigner in my own country.

What about those people with broad cockney accents that make themselves sound thick? What about the scousers who always seem to be trying it on or trying to get something for nothing? :roll:

In my area of employment I travel all over the place and I have to say, I have more trouble with scousers than any other type of person anywhere! Awful place, (mostly) awful people. End of conversation.