Todmorden Curve

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have noticed Transdev have axed the X44 routed via Edenfield instead a new service called the X8 that runs from Burnley-Edenfield into Manchester Shudehill Interchange. The service only runs 4 times a day 2 each way.

The X44 services were those that also included Edenfield and Shuttleworth in their route, after the stop at Rawtenstall, and prior to the continuence of the journey down the M66 and were additional to the standard service provision of the X43 service that did nor serve either of these two areas. It would be interesting to see the loadings from those two areas. The Monday to Friday commuter service provision on the X44 service was as follows:-
0556...Nelson to Manchester
0634...Nelson to Manchester
0750...Nelson to Manchester
0849...Nelson to Manchester
1110...Nelson to Manchester
1310...Nelson to Manchester
1501...Burnley to Manchester

0915...Manchester to Burnley
1040...Manchester to Nelson
1240...Manchester to Nelson
1400...Manchester to Nelson
1600...Manchester to Nelson
1640...Manchester to Nelson
1710...Manchester to Queensgate Bus Depot
1740...Manchester to Nelson
1910...Manchester to Nelson

I think that the new X8 service is seen as provision for commuter use in the mornings and for the return of same later in the day. The fact that Burnley, rather than Nelson, is the terminus is a reflection that far more Burnley rather than Nelson passengers require a route through Edenfield to Manchester, whilst the existing X43 service from Nelson with a quicker route to Manchester than one that calls additionally in the Edenfield area, is still offering a good period timing of service provision.

 

[phil8715]

Looking at the timings of the X8 it looks like the service just runs during peak times.

I must admit I do like the buses on the X43 route with comfortable leather seats. I wish the 152 had the same buses that the 225 Bolton to Clitheroe has. Transdev have refurbished the buses that run on the 152 route, but it seems the 152 is always last when it comes to investment. The buses they use are probably about 8/10 years old now.

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[Xenophon PCDGS]

I must admit I do like the buses on the X43 route with comfortable leather seats.

Yes, if you have ever used the double-deck fleet of the Yorkshire Coastliner, the same type of seat shape and seat coverings are quite similar. If the proposed new rail service is served by the ubiquitous Class 142 Pacers, the regular users of the X43 service with its current "Witch Way" fleet will be somewhat disconcerted when considering a change from road to rail, from a comfort point of view.

 

[Deerfold]

The fact that Burnley, rather than Nelson, is the terminus is a reflection that far more Burnley rather than Nelson passengers require a route through Edenfield to Manchester.

Also the fact they run 10 buses an hour (8 Mainline, 2 WitchWay X44) between Burnley and Nelson that you can use to connect.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Also the fact they run 10 buses an hour (8 Mainline, 2 Witch Way X44) between Burnley and Nelson that you can use to connect.

Unfortunately the X44 is to meet its termination, as mentioned by phil8715, but Burnley is quite a good bus transport hub for East Lancashire, with a quite good bus station.

 

[Deerfold]

Unfortunately the X44 is to meet its termination, as mentioned by phil8715, but Burnley is quite a good bus transport hub for East Lancashire, with a quite good bus station.

Sorry, I meant X43 - there's still 2 of those an hour will link Burnley and Nelson.

 

[phil8715]

Sorry, I meant X43 - there's still 2 of those an hour will link Burnley and Nelson.

This is in fact correct. 2 buses an hour from Nelson to Manchester.


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[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking at the timings of the X8 it looks like the service just runs during peak times.

I have just received LCC leaflet 78 which covers services from 30th October 2011 which refers to the new peak period service operated by Transdev as "Starship X8" as being a new service on Monday to Fridays only between Burnley and Manchester and vice versa.. The actual timings on this service are:-

0650 dep. Burnley... 0827 arr. Manchester
0935 dep. Burnley... 1110 arr. Manchester

0838 dep. Manchester... 1013 arr. Burnley
1625 dep. Manchester... 1758 arr. Burnley
1720 dep. Manchester... 1853 arr. Burnley

This leaflet also includes details of a new number 8 service, also operated by Transdev, running between Burnley and Bury, which runs via Townley, Weir, Bacup, Waterfoot,Rawtenstall and Bury. This operates Monday to Saturday.

The fares quoted are:-

Burnley to Manchester....£4.70 single....£7.50 return (valid for 1 month)
Burnley to Bury..............£4.00 single....£4.50 return (valid for 1 month)

 

[phil8715]

The Starship buses only half size buses used on this route, I can imagine the fun & games if they will have if the bus is full and standing out of Manchester Shudehill.

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[Xenophon PCDGS]

Back to the matter of the Todmorden Chord. We had been to Hebden Bridge yesterday and I noticed that there was overgrown trackwork still in situ past Todmorden station in the area where the proposed chord is to be reinstated. Was this part of the original line from Todmorden up the Copy Pit line?

 

[lancastrian]

Back to the matter of the Todmorden Chord. We had been to Hebden Bridge yesterday and I noticed that there was overgrown trackwork still in situ past Todmorden station in the area where the proposed chord is to be reinstated. Was this part of the original line from Todmorden up the Copy Pit line?

I am gald about this comment, I was begining to think I was on the 'BusUK Forum'.

I have not had much to say about this but I am glad that last the North is starting to get some Rail Investment. All we need now is for the rest we need. Not only electrifing both the Standegde & Calder Valley Routes, along with the East lancashire line & Copy Pit route, with the electrified reopening of the double track Skipton to Colne line, and redouble from Gannow Junction to Colne.

Plus the Burscough Curves reinstated, with Merseyrail 3rd Rail extensions from Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge, Kirkby to Wigan Wallgae & Bidston to Wrexham Central, then we will have the start of a decent rail service in the North West.

 

[150222]

Back to the matter of the Todmorden Chord. We had been to Hebden Bridge yesterday and I noticed that there was overgrown trackwork still in situ past Todmorden station in the area where the proposed chord is to be reinstated. Was this part of the original line from Todmorden up the Copy Pit line?

The overgrown track was a goods yard. Most of the original chord was ripped up in 1972 apparantly. (Long before my time) ; )

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The overgrown track was a goods yard. Most of the original chord was ripped up in 1972 apparently. (Long before my time) ; )

Thank you for your clarification. Unlike you, I should have remembered about this goods yard, but at 66, advancing age can play tricks with your memory.:roll:

 

[Sox]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/9370759.Bid_to_reopen_Cliviger_railway_station_80_years_after_it_closed/

Bid to reopen Cliviger railway station 80 years after it closed

3:11pm Thursday 17th November 2011
By Peter Magill »
Chief reporter

A RAILWAY station could be re-opened more than 80 years after closing if Burnley’s mayor has his way.

In three years’ time a regular train service will be running from Burnley Manchester Road station, to Manchester, as part of the £9million move to reinstate the Todmorden Curve.

And Coun David Heginbotham, the borough’s mayor, believes that this should signal the revival of Holme railway station in Cliviger.

Opened in 1849 the stop – between Manchester Road station and Todmorden – was officially closed in July 1930.

But Coun Heginbotham, who represents Cliviger and Worsthorne, is adamant it could have a bright future.

He said: “There are still two platforms in Cliviger, behind the Ram Inn in Holme Chapel, which were never demolished.

"Now we have got the Todmorden Curve happening and my next step will be to try and get the station reopened.”

He is planning to stage talks with Stonegate Taverns, owners of the Ram Inn, on whose land the platforms are now believe to stand.

“People could stop off at Holme with their bikes, or their picnics, and explore Cliviger and the surrounding area,” added Coun Heginbotham.

The reopening of the Todmorden Curve, 500 yards of track which enables trains to ‘switch back’ to the Manchester line, has already prompted one other railway station campaign.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/9108250.Cornholme_villagers_bid_for_new_rail_station/

Cornholme villagers bid for new rail station

4:43pm Monday 27th June 2011

A CAMPAIGN has been launched by villagers to open a new railway station halfway between Burnley and Todmorden.

And if the new halt at Cornholme and Portsmouth becomes a reality, the journey time to Manchester for commuters could be as little as 40 minutes.

More than 120 people in the neighbouring communities have so far expressed an interest in the bid for the station, which would be on the Caldervale line between Burnley Manchester Road and Hebden Bridge.

Campaign spokesman Rachel Julian said: “It all started around the discussions to reopen the Todmorden Curve.

“If they are going to restore the curve then this would have clear advantages for people living in this area.”

Questionnaires have been drawn up and have been handed out via Cornholme School, the post office in Burnley Road and nearby general store.

Originally, each of the two villages had its own station, both constructed by the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railways company and opened in 1849.

But the Cornholme stop was closed in September 1938 and the Portsmouth station only lasted until July 1958.

The station would be accessible for people living in Cliviger and Worsthorne.

Under the West Yorkshire regional railway plan, a station for the area is listed as an aim.

Since the last posting was about the Holme station site that was also on the Copy Pit line, I remembered the above posting on this thread, which too makes mention of the Cliviger parish area. Whilst Holme station closed in July 1930, the two stations named in this report lasted somewhat longer. Does anyone know the present position with regard to the campaign that is referred to in the above quote and also with regard to the West Yorkshire regional railway plan that is referred to in the final paragraph.

 

[Sox]

Since the last posting was about the Holme station site that was also on the Copy Pit line, I remembered the above posting on this thread, which too makes mention of the Cliviger parish area. Whilst Holme station closed in July 1930, the two stations named in this report lasted somewhat longer. Does anyone know the present position with regard to the campaign that is referred to in the above quote and also with regard to the West Yorkshire regional railway plan that is referred to in the final paragraph.

Paul,

Yes, when you juxtapose the two articles that way it made me think of the Windsor Link (although, for Todmorden, on a less grander scale), years of "umming and ahhing" and now "anything and everything" goes down it.

The restoration of the Todmorden curve might well be the key to the door for a good number of other rail related projects in the area.

 

[Whistler40145]

Would it ever be considered to operate a circular service from Manchester Victoria to Manchester Victoria via Bolton, Chorley, Lostock Hall, Blackburn, Burnley, Todmorden & Rochdale using a Class 185? Another service would operate in reverse direction.

 

[tbtc]

Deleted Post

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I very much doubt it (not just because of the lack of 185s), the line from Blackburn to Bolton has some single track bottlenecks, and I don't think there's scope for a second service an hour. Even if there were, the timings of a long circular service would probably be quite awkward to schedule to avoid delays on the single sections.

Which is why it's routed via Chorley

 

[150222]

Would it ever be considered to operate a circular service from Manchester Victoria to Manchester Victoria via Bolton, Chorley, Lostock Hall, Blackburn, Burnley, Todmorden & Rochdale using a Class 185? Another service would operate in reverse direction.

I think it's been proposed but came to nothing. Also it would not use a 185 as there aren't enough as it is.

 

[tbtc]

Which is why it's routed via Chorley

Sorry, my mistake.

There would be paths for it okay, I take back what I said

 

[Whistler40145]

I was thinking long term, following completion of the electrification schemes, whereby I expect a number of Class 185s to be available. If not 185s, I would consider 172/3s or 158s.

 

[150222]

I think that electrification will only release around 10 185's. These in turn will be used to strengthen north TPE services. If you want 172's you could order them now and with luck have them by the year 3000.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I can only see the most basic of available units being used on any new service using the Todmorden Curve once it is operational. My signature is not there just for "show" but expresses my belief that "Northernland" is a second-class rail area, in the eyes of rail planners of all types.

Don't talk to me about all the "exciting new projects" that are planned for this area now. These should have been implemented years ago. What type of electric units will be running much of these services...all of them "brand-new" top of the range items...or a few units that have been "tagged-on" to a current production run, plus the usual cast-offs (another word for "cascaded") from those areas who, on receiving nice new units, will want to divest themselves of the "old rubbish". Sunday morning sees my cynicism alive and well.

 

[Accylad]

After the demise of the Manchester to Accrington direct route (now part ELR),

Could this ever be reopened even just as a commuter service as I've seen something mentioned about the ELR opening as commuter service. I take it though the cost to re-open the line from Accrington to Manchester via Clifton would be far too high if at all possible with the likes of things being built on and around where the line was. Would be a nice journey over the Clifton viaduct and I'm sure quicker.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Well, there is a giant Tesco built on the only way it probably could have got into Accrington, so the chances aren't too good.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
NB - That refers to the old route via Helmshore etc

 

[Whistler40145]

Please correct me, but wasn't part of the A56 between M65 & Rawtenstall built over the trackbed?

 

[Accylad]

Yes I think it is, been trying to work the route out on google maps but the A56 hasslingden bypass follows the part of the path the line would have taken and where the Tesco is built

 

[natureboy]

Anyone got any suggestions for a service using the new Todmorden Curve when it's finally relaid?

My suggestion is this, a continuous circular service; Manchester Victoria - Bolton - Blackburn - Accrington - Burnley Manchester Road - Todmorden - Rochdale - Manchester Victoria; and of course vice versa.
Commencing at Manchester Victoria in the early morning and finally terminating there late evening, this service would, I’m sure, be an overnight success!
If the Bolton - Blackburn line was re-doubled throughout the service could run half hourly. The Clitheroe service could then be made limited stop south of Blackburn by calling only at Bolton, Salford Crescent/Central and Manchester Victoria.

Station announcements would be something like this:

At Manchester Victoria:
XX:XX ACCRINGTON (Circular service via Bolton and Blackburn) calling at;
Salford Central, Salford Crescent, Bolton, Hall i’ th’ Wood, Bromley Cross, Entwistle, Darwen, Blackburn, Rishton, Church & Oswaldtwistle and Accrington.

At Bolton:
XX:XX TODMORDEN (Circular service via Blackburn and Burnley) calling at;
Hall i’ th’ Wood, Bromley Cross, Entwistle, Darwen, Blackburn, Rishton, Church & Oswaldtwistle, Accrington, Huncoat, Hapton, Rose Grove and Burnley Manchester Road.

At Blackburn:
XX:XX ROCHDALE (Circular service via Burnley and Todmorden) calling at;
Rishton, Church & Oswaldtwistle, Accrington, Huncoat, Hapton, Rose Grove, Burnley Manchester Road, Todmorden, Walsden, Littleborough and Smith Bridge.

At Accrington:
XX:XX MANCHESTER VICTORIA (Circular service via Burnley and Rochdale) calling at;
Huncoat, Hapton, Rose Grove, Burnley Manchester Road, Todmorden, Walsden, Littleborough, Smith Bridge, Rochdale, Castleton, Mills Hill and Moston.

At Burnley Manchester Road:
XX:XX SALFORD CRESCENT (Circular service via Rochdale and Manchester Victoria) calling at;
Todmorden, Walsden, Littleborough, Smith Bridge, Rochdale, Castleton, Mills Hill, Moston, Manchester Victoria and Salford Central.


And so on...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Before we get into this two much, the official initial proposal is to extend the Rochdale terminator ex-Wigan Wallgate (I think) to all stations to Todmorden, then Burnley Manchester Rd Rose Grove, Accrington, and terminating at Blackburn.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If the Bolton - Blackburn line was re-doubled throughout the service could run half hourly. The Clitheroe service could then be made limited stop south of Blackburn by calling only at Bolton, Salford Crescent/Central and Manchester Victoria.

It doesn't need redoubling throughout, indeed this is impossible fully due to a landslip at Sough Tunnel northern portal, and a bridge near Darwen. If Blackburn-Darwen was redoubled, as well as a passing loop at Turton, I think you could manage it.

I would also say that Darwen and Bromley Cross both warrant a half-hourly service, I think non-stop Bolton-Blackburn would be a bad move.