Transferring east coast e ticket

Hi there,
I bought a print@home ticket for East Coast from Durham to London. I could no longer make the day so sold the ticket to someone else in my university for the same price as I bought it. I now realise that the ticket says it is non-transferable and is only good for the named traveller. Is this a rule that is checked, and if not, is it possible to change to a normal ticket which I can pick up to get around this problem?

In general, rail tickets are not transferable* in accordance with National Rail Conditions of Carriage, Condition 6. These tickets are no exception to that.

You would have agreed for some form of ID to be shown (usually the credit/debit card). As the passenger will be unable to show it, they could be liable to pay for a new Anytime single ticket, if the guard asks to see the ID, which is not certain to happen, but quite likely. That's about £150.

The only viable alternative open to you is to change the date of travel to another day that you can do the trip. You must arrange this before the time of departure.

(* Except if is purchased on behalf of an organisation,
business or similar entity as described in the NRCoC)

yorkie said:

You would have agreed for some form of ID to be shown. As the passenger will be unable to show it, they could be liable to pay for a new Anytime single ticket, if the guard asks to see the ID, which is not certain to happen, but quite likely. That's about £150.

The only viable alternative open to you is to change the date of travel to another day that you can do the trip. You must arrange this before the time of departure.

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Argh that's so annoying, I should have just gone for a normal ticket. The problem is I have sold the ticket to someone else and it is for tomorrow (15th March). It says it will cost him about 80 quid for the ticket now. How would I be able to find out what price someone would pay for that ticket (travelling down Friday evening with railcard) had he bought it at the time that he bought my advance ticket off me, on the 2nd of March?

Relativenewbie said:

Argh that's so annoying, I should have just gone for a normal ticket.

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Which is still non-transferable.

Relativenewbie said:

The problem is I have sold the ticket to someone else and it is for tomorrow (15th March).

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Unfortunately this is a breach of the NRCoC.

Relativenewbie said:

It says it will cost him about 80 quid for the ticket now.

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Is this a one-way journey? I will assume so as that is the way the posts have been worded.

The cost on the day, for a Super Off Peak Single with a Railcard is £79.85. The cost if bought on the East Coast website before midnight is half that price, but it's too late for that now. Obviously that is assuming travel is made at a time when a Super Off Peak is valid.

The cheapest alternative is a ticket from Sunderland/Hartlepool/Eaglescliffe/Northallerton to London, this is priced at £37.35 for an Off Peak Single routed Grand Central Only.

A single to Northallerton is £6.20 (assuming travel after 1000; if it's before 1000 then £9.40), and then the Northallerton to London ticket can be bought on board a Grand Central train, though bear in mind the train highlighted in green would cost more than that.

Relativenewbie said:

How would I be able to find out what price someone would pay for that ticket (travelling down Friday evening with railcard) had he bought it at the time that he bought my advance ticket off me, on the 2nd of March?

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That cannot reliably be calculated.

The short answer is you can't.

The cheapest ticket for immediate travel is £121 between Durham and London (£79.85 with Railcard discount), if purchased before boarding. Otherwise it is £150.50.

You've left it too late to purchase the special offer half-price online Super Off-Peak Single or any Advance fares.

Edit: Beaten to it. The only alternative is to make use of Grand Central fares as yorkie mentioned above.

I would advise against the person travelling on the Print@Home ticket. If they are caught, they could be liable for prosecution and so could you.

My opinion of Print@Home, e-tickets, m-tickets and the like is that they should be avoided wherever possible, as you invariably give up some of the rights you would have with a normal paper ticket.

yorkie said:

The only viable alternative open to you is to change the date of travel to another day that you can do the trip. You must arrange this before the time of departure.[/COLOR]

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Before 1800 the day before departure in fact:

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/travel-information/train-ticket-information/ticket-sales-terms-and-conditions/ said:

Please note: If you have chosen Print@ Home as your delivery method, then your ticket(s) can only be changed online via your East Coast account, up until 18.00 the day before the date of departure of the first reserved train shown on your ticket(s). You cannot amend Print@Home tickets at a station.

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BTW, if it's a return journey the Super Off Peak Return is less than a pound more than the walk-up single, at £80.50.

It's worth popping into the station to see if they will change the name. I've been able to do this before at King's Cross travel centre.

LexyBoy said:

My opinion of Print@Home, e-tickets, m-tickets and the like is that they should be avoided wherever possible, as you invariably give up some of the rights you would have with a normal paper ticket.

Before 1800 the day before departure in fact:

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Hmm, yet another reason to add to the list to avoid Print@Home! I agree with you. If it was a 'normal' ticket it could be amended at any time before departure (though I wouldn't leave it too late as if there was a queue I wouldn't want to get into a debate about what happens if the train departs while you are queuing to get the ticket amended!)

I strongly advise NOT using m-ticketing, e-ticketing, Print@Home ticketing etc.

It isn't relevant to the specific situation I don't think, but there is nothing to stop someone buying a ticket for a friend or family member (including if that friend or family member reimburses the cost) and the person be given the right credit card to travel with.

I would suggest that if you don't trust your friend with your credit card that you probably shouldn't be buying tickets on their behalf.

34D said:

It isn't relevant to the specific situation I don't think, but there is nothing to stop someone buying a ticket for a friend or family member (including if that friend or family member reimburses the cost) and the person be given the right credit card to travel with.

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Although in that case, when selecting the type of ID that will accompany the ticket, the purchaser should enter the final passenger's name and last 4 digits of the final passengers card or other ID document - not their own. If the website was told that the ticket was for Mr Bloggs, then Bloggs will be printed on the Print@Home ticket. Although tickets can be bought for someone else, in the case of Print@Home, that person's name must be declared at the time of purchase

Of course, with a conventional paper ticket collected from a TVM, the train company would be none the wiser as to whether you originally intended to buy the ticket for someone else.

maniacmartin said:

Although in that case, when selecting the type of ID that will accompany the ticket, the purchaser should enter the final passenger's name and last 4 digits of the final passengers card or other ID document - not their own. If the website was told that the ticket was for Mr Bloggs, then Bloggs will be printed on the Print@Home ticket. Although tickets can be bought for someone else, in the case of Print@Home, that person's name must be declared at the time of purchase

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I've never tried these e-tickets/print at home (and don't think I ever will), but if I buy two tickets, one for myself and the other for Mrs 34D, do I need to specify her name and her own credit card number at the time of booking?

34D said:

I've never tried these e-tickets/print at home (and don't think I ever will), but if I buy two tickets, one for myself and the other for Mrs 34D, do I need to specify her name and her own credit card number at the time of booking?

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I use e-ticketing for all of my VT Advance runs (I know they're non-changeable, but then again neither is an Advance AFAIC) and with them it is the lead passenger (The passenger making the booking i.e; The person whose account is logged-in to the VT website) whose name and identity details must be provided, and - If said ID is the card used for payment - That person must travel and have the same card in their possession for that ticket to be valid. However passports and driving licences may also be entered for this purpose, and I think this could be used to legitimately buy an e-ticket on behalf of a third party.

I've never had a second passenger on any of my bookings, but it is possible that their name might need to be entered and will likely appear on the ticket if so. It's also worth noting that e-tickets have ample space for several passengers' names on them, so - Presumably - A group of eight passengers travelling e-ticket would all be issued on the same document, rather than eight separate tickets.

To clarify: If you were to book a trip for yourself and your wife and provide your name as the primary passenger, it is your name and ID that would be used to validate the ticket as good for travel. Your wifes' name may also appear on the ticket nonetheless however, and it might be wise for her to carry suitable proof of her name just in case ye get an overzealous RPI.
However in all of my VT advance runs over time, I don't think my ID (Debit card) has been requested on more than two occasions.

Of course; If your wife was to book her own ticket, she would have to supply her own details and ID information as stated above.

Sorry if this has rambled on a bit, but hope it's useful all the same.

Death said:

However passports and driving licences may also be entered for this purpose, and I think this could be used to legitimately buy an e-ticket on behalf of a third party.

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Thanks for this

Death said:

(I know they're non-changeable, but then again neither is an Advance AFAIC)

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This is incorrect. But perhaps you meant non-refundable?

Death said:

I use e-ticketing for all of my VT Advance runs (I know they're non-changeable, but then again neither is an Advance AFAIC)

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To be clear, Advance tickets are changeable if printed on normal orange stock, up until the departure time of the first reservable train in the itinerary, as long as you find a clerk who is willing and able to do the change, which can be hard. There is a £10 fee and the fare difference if any is payable. Any TOC or route restrictions on the Advance ticket continue to apply.

34D said:

Thanks for this

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No worries 34D! I shall just add though that my experiences are based entirely on journeys purchased from Virgin Trains, and other operators might have different ID policies in effect.
Even so, most seem to use the "Lead passenger with ID, and plus ones" approach as mentioned in my previous post IME.

yorkie said:

This is incorrect. But perhaps you meant non-refundable?

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That's the main intent of what I said...But when considering that I only ever buy VES and VDS Advance fares which are normally less than £15 anyway¹ it often works out cheaper and far less hassle to simply abandon an Advance in its entirety and rebook (Or take an alternative route) rather than have to phone VTs call centre², pay an extra tenner to change my ticket, and then keep f0rkin' out for a VBS on a packed train that I'd generally avoid buying in the first place! hock:

¹ - If I can't get a VDS on my target train, I search other trains until I find one and adjust my plans accordingly.
² - At a rather costly rate. Ironically enough, I take my landline service from Virgin Media!

island said:

To be clear, Advance tickets are changeable if printed on normal orange stock, up until the departure time of the first reservable train in the itinerary, as long as you find a clerk who is willing and able to do the change, which can be hard. There is a £10 fee and the fare difference if any is payable. Any TOC or route restrictions on the Advance ticket continue to apply.

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As mentioned above, I've found that it's often easier for me to simply abandon and rebook at times like that. I had to abandon both legs of a journey with VT back in February due to both illness (My own) and death (Somebody elses) meaning that I was unable to use either portion.
Thankfully though, both tickets amounted to only £22.50 (Less than any insurance excess), I managed to cover most of the same stretch for £20 on LM Great Escape coupons, and I was seemingly fortunate enough to catch the 110mph timed 1U33 on the way up too!
I've got my fingers crossed that Virgin might swap my unused tickets ex-gracia for a few extra Flying Club miles once I've had the chance to write to them and enquire over my position.

That said; I normally take e-tickets where I can, and my understanding (Based on correspondance with VT over their Facebook wall) is that - Once these tickets are rendered on the back-end as PDFs and made available for download - They are wholly non-changeable from that point.
However this could be more due to VTs own ticketing policy than an ATOC defined rule.