LBC reporter checking on train drivers

Temple Meads · 1 Aug 2013

TDK said:
If there were windows in the cab door the cranks will be queuing to video the view and post it on YouTube within minutes.

Oh definitely

Silv1983 said:
I don't understand all this talk about people wanting to see out the front of a train. Im sure they exist - but the view to the side is far more colourful and varied. I have to glance sideways occasionally (only when safe of course!) to invigorate my senses with colour and a change of scenary. I suppose it is interesting to see the view out the front, say, when approaching a busy terminus station - but that's the exception.

For me it's being able to see things such as signals, junctions and stations from a "informed" perspective, although that is purely from a neds perspective, most passengers would find far more in the sideways view.

RailUK Forums

millemille · 1 Aug 2013

Steve Ford said:
It may vary between areas but its certainly been almost stamped out in Kent, anyway we're veering off topic

Kent? Kent, England?

You are having a laugh aren't you?

I'd say, based on driving and riding a motorbike thousands of miles all around Kent for work and pleasure that mobile phone usage whilst driving is worse than it has ever been.

You drive up the A2 in the morning and 1 in 4 drivers, at an educated guess, are using the phone (talking or texting) without a hands free kit.

Dave1987 · 1 Aug 2013

I think what A-Driver says about people being able to see in the cab is the best response. How soon before people start tweeting I saw the driver do this and should the driver be doing this. And how soon till you get someone tapping on the glass as you are approaching a red to demand an answer to why you are running late. Sorry but it could be considered a matter of safety not having a glass partition.

pinguini · 1 Aug 2013

Passengers don't need interaction with the driver in the same way that airline passengers don't need to watch pilots. Let the drivers get on with things in peace.

1e10 · 1 Aug 2013

TDK said:
For what purpose? What is your job role? Have you got CCTV monitoring your every move?

Cashiers for example have CCTV watching their every move.

First Bus in my local area have small monitors installed on all of their buses which record how fast a driver is taking a bend, how hard their accelerating/braking. The data is then imported to a central system and can be used to produce some form of performance report per each individual driver.

I was travelling on a First Great Western service today and the guard was using her BlackBerry as she walked around inspecting tickets. I think she was checking timetables and such and this reflected in her ability to advise passengers. Without asking she was able to tell me where to change for my next service and what platform I should wait on to board the train. She was very helpful.

Are guards allowed to use mobile phones? I certainly hope they are given how useful they can be.

sheff1 · 1 Aug 2013

pinguini said:
Passengers don't need interaction with the driver in the same way that airline passengers don't need to watch pilots.

You might not need to watch the pilot, but on the Guernsey - Alderney flights you could literally tap the pilot on the shoulder if you are seated in the first row as there is no partition of any sort.

notadriver · 1 Aug 2013

1e10 said:
Cashiers for example have CCTV watching their every move.

First Bus in my local area have small monitors installed on all of their buses which record how fast a driver is taking a bend, how hard their accelerating/braking. The data is then imported to a central system and can be used to produce some form of performance report per each individual driver.

That just goes to show how weak or non existent the union is for bus drivers. Management can impose things like that with little resistance.

90019 · 1 Aug 2013

notadriver said:
that just goes to show how weak or non existent the union is for some bus drivers. Management can impose things like that with little resistance.

EFA.

The unions are definitely stronger within some companies.

Antman · 1 Aug 2013

millemille said:
Kent? Kent, England?

You are having a laugh aren't you?

I'd say, based on driving and riding a motorbike thousands of miles all around Kent for work and pleasure that mobile phone usage whilst driving is worse than it has ever been.

You drive up the A2 in the morning and 1 in 4 drivers, at an educated guess, are using the phone (talking or texting) without a hands free kit.

One in four? Its you thats having a laugh
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

notadriver said:
That just goes to show how weak or non existent the union is for bus drivers. Management can impose things like that with little resistance.

There are similar things in the haulage industry, what grounds have a union got for objecting to it if its done in the name of safety?

flhh66555 · 1 Aug 2013

I recall coasting through a station with my seat back quite reclined. I was relaxed running on greens and had my hands finger locked behind my head. I was totally awake and aware of my surroundings. I got the 'see me' at the end of my shift. lady reported train passed through station driver asleep. oh well I guess its how I was sat rather than what she saw.

Antman · 1 Aug 2013

Dave1987 said:
I think what A-Driver says about people being able to see in the cab is the best response. How soon before people start tweeting I saw the driver do this and should the driver be doing this. And how soon till you get someone tapping on the glass as you are approaching a red to demand an answer to why you are running late. Sorry but it could be considered a matter of safety not having a glass partition.

It doesn't seem to be a problem on Tramlink

A-driver · 2 Aug 2013

Steve Ford said:
It doesn't seem to be a problem on Tramlink

Again, different industry, different type of route/operation etc.
but again I don't accept the argument 'we need it on the mainline because xyz has it already'.

notadriver · 2 Aug 2013

Steve Ford said:
One in four? Its you thats having a laugh
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are similar things in the haulage industry, what grounds have a union got for objecting to it if its done in the name of safety?

Because as has been said train drivers are professional and don't need to be checked on. We don't go on our mobiles when driving like road vehicle drivers often do, OTMR is already there - therefore it's not a safety issue but an invasion of privacy and a way of spying on drivers.

notadriver · 2 Aug 2013

Steve Ford said:
It doesn't seem to be a problem on Tramlink

Main line operations are very different to light rail.

DD · 2 Aug 2013

Considering how distracting it will be, with people banging on the glass to get your attention to ask a question etc, no thanks! And do passengers really want to see a body splat against the front window...nope! And if we ever had a window partition....mine would stay blacked out permantley! Seems its really only the spotters who would really object to it.

CCTV is a pointless argument now as it was declined by the rssb to be fitted.

Cherry_Picker · 2 Aug 2013

**knock knock knock** on the glass.

Scuse me drive, what time do we get into London?

Thanks but no thanks.

GadgetMan · 2 Aug 2013

To all those claiming the glass partition would be to get a view out the front only. Would you drop the Glass door into cab argument if the TOC fitted a large LCD on the saloon wall connected to a forward facing camera so you got your front end view without being able to look into the cab?

No doubt the above option would be cheaper than altering train design too.

Tomnick · 2 Aug 2013

notadriver said:
That just goes to show how weak or non existent the union is for bus drivers. Management can impose things like that with little resistance.

The monitor that 1E10 describes doesn't sound much different to OTMR (other than that it appears to download automatically rather than being done manually on a random basis), so it's perhaps a little unfair to start comparing unions. Whether CCTV is installed or not is a separate issue.

TDK · 2 Aug 2013

GadgetMan said:
To all those claiming the glass partition would be to get a view out the front only. Would you drop the Glass door into cab argument if the TOC fitted a large LCD on the saloon wall connected to a forward facing camera so you got your front end view without being able to look into the cab?

No doubt the above option would be cheaper than altering train design too.

Great and then someone jumps in front of the train and you have 200 passengers putting claims for mental trauma - get real. Most units have front facing cameras fitted already that can be downloaded post incident.

notadriver · 2 Aug 2013

Tomnick said:
The monitor that 1E10 describes doesn't sound much different to OTMR (other than that it appears to download automatically rather than being done manually on a random basis), so it's perhaps a little unfair to start comparing unions. Whether CCTV is installed or not is a separate issue.

It could be used to dismiss someone for minor events such as speeding - doing a quick 40 mph in a 30 zone running empty back to the depot. Of course I would say 50% of bus drivers are likely to get back to their depot a bit quickly but they won't all be disciplined.

GadgetMan · 2 Aug 2013

TDK said:
Great and then someone jumps in front of the train and you have 200 passengers putting claims for mental trauma - get real. Most units have front facing cameras fitted already that can be downloaded post incident.

I wasn't recommending having a screen with forward view. It was just to see if those desperately arguing for a forward facing window would be open to an alternative that would still leave the driver with their privacy.

IanXC · 2 Aug 2013

DD said:
Considering how distracting it will be, with people banging on the glass to get your attention to ask a question etc, no thanks! And do passengers really want to see a body splat against the front window...nope! And if we ever had a window partition....mine would stay blacked out permantley! Seems its really only the spotters who would really object to it.

CCTV is a pointless argument now as it was declined by the rssb to be fitted.

Indeed, I can't help but think we're in 'fix it till its broken' territory with this whole issue. Especially if that's the RSSB view.

SPADTrap · 2 Aug 2013

Brits love a good ol knee jerk reaction don't we! :-/

Antman · 2 Aug 2013

TDK said:
Great and then someone jumps in front of the train and you have 200 passengers putting claims for mental trauma - get real. Most units have front facing cameras fitted already that can be downloaded post incident.

That really is a poor argument, I mean do any passengers on platforms who witness such incidents put in claims?

I can understand drivers wanting to keep their privacy but.........

ModernRailways · 2 Aug 2013

Steve Ford said:
That really is a poor argument, I mean do any passengers on platforms who witness such incidents put in claims?

Same can be said for many other systems such as the ICE 3 which, as mentioned, features a glass partition. There is also Light Rail but apparently that is a whole different world compared to heavy rail. :roll:

bronzeonion · 2 Aug 2013

Yeah, the idea of having the window behind the cab wouldn't work here. Here you get all the desperate idiots who try to claim for absolutely everything and you'd also get the irritable commuters who think they know everything banging on the glass for a 'debate' (the type to tap their watch as the train pulls in even though 99% of the the time the delay is not the drivers fault!)

http://img5.blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ybi/1...lder/975554/img_975554_18898055_13?1280748557 Here's an example of what the Japanese trains have

A-driver · 2 Aug 2013

Steve Ford said:
That really is a poor argument, I mean do any passengers on platforms who witness such incidents put in claims?...

Yes they do, and not just for fatalities, a claim was put in by a passenger on a train which brought the overheads down last year to.

Don't know if anyone has ever got any money out of it though, even drivers don't get compensation for fatalities anymore so I doubt the public would.

ModernRailways said:
Same can be said for many other systems such as the ICE 3 which, as mentioned, features a glass partition. There is also Light Rail but apparently that is a whole different world compared to heavy rail. :roll:

As I keep saying, just because other networks have them it isn't an argument for the mainline to have them. And in many ways light rail is completely different. Read my post on reasons against. Many of those points would not relate to light rail.

Still people are trying to argue this is a worthy cause but no one has yet come up with any reasons why it would be a good idea apart from the 'spotter' argument which holds no weight. The argument against seems much stronger as it is the only valid argument at the moment!

BestWestern · 2 Aug 2013

ModernRailways said:
Same can be said for many other systems such as the ICE 3 which, as mentioned, features a glass partition. There is also Light Rail but apparently that is a whole different world compared to heavy rail. :roll:

When light rail vehicles strike people the scene is never going to be the same as when a high speed train collides with somebody. How many Blackpool trams have you seen with blood and guts splattered all up the front after crunching a pedestrian on the 'Prom?! Trams and LRVs travel at nowhere near the speed of heavy rail services.

There would only need to be one incident of a messy fatality witnessed by 'viewers' on a train with passengers windows at at the front, and it would be all over the papers and so on. As if the railway doesn't get enough wrongly directed stick over the delays caused by fatalities as it is, we really don't need another angle to it as well. Drivers are there to look where the train is going, there is no need for passengers to do it as well.

transmanche · 2 Aug 2013

A-driver said:
Plus, what business is it of the public to watch me work exactly? Still no one has justified having a window into the cab except that 'Newcastle metro does it' and 'it would be good to see where we are going'. Neither if those are reasons.

You're being far too paranoid.

I'd bet that most people don't actually give a monkey's about seeing the driver. But they do like a forward view.

Antman · 2 Aug 2013

BestWestern said:
When light rail vehicles strike people the scene is never going to be the same as when a high speed train collides with somebody. How many Blackpool trams have you seen with blood and guts splattered all up the front after crunching a pedestrian on the 'Prom?! Trams and LRVs travel at nowhere near the speed of heavy rail services.

There would only need to be one incident of a messy fatality witnessed by 'viewers' on a train with passengers windows at at the front, and it would be all over the papers and so on. As if the railway doesn't get enough wrongly directed stick over the delays caused by fatalities as it is, we really don't need another angle to it as well. Drivers are there to look where the train is going, there is no need for passengers to do it as well.

I would think the scene would be fairly similar, obviously depending on the speed of the train or tram.

I really cannot see why any such incident would be "all over the papers", after all it is no different to coach passengers witnessing a high speed motorway accident through the front windscreen.

Why shouldn't passengers want to look where the train is going? I can understand drivers wanting to keep their privacy but some of the arguments put forward are doing nothing to help that cause.

LBC reporter checking on train drivers

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