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FGW looking at loco hauled for the Cardiff - Taunton route

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tbtc

tbtc

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bb21 said:
Maybe not Tesco's Value orange juice but plenty of other things have shrunk in size and gone up in price.

If I remember correctly, there was a thread a while back in the General Discussions forum triggered by Innocent Smoothies being reduced from 1L to 750ml but the price staying the same without any prominent publicity.
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Poundland do a lot of that - they'll sell a multipack of crisps for a quid, but you only get five nowadays when you used to get six (so quite a price increase "per packet").

Both Greggs and Cadburys admitted to shrinking the size of their portions.

Yet some people only accept rail price increases where there's been some direct benefit to them.
 
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Goatboy

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455driver said:
Rail fares are going up by more than inflation because the government have decided that the passengers will start to pay 75% of the costs of the railway rather than the 50% they used to pay.

Who is responsible for stock provision?
Who is responsible for service provision?

Hardly the TOCs fault is it, but then "the usual suspects" just have to make everything the money grabbing TOCs fault regardless of the facts!
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This is an important point. My views on constant fare rises are aired often on here but I don't think we can or should blame the TOC. A TOC is a private company - they exist to maximise shareholder value. They have a legal obligation to do this. If I ran a TOC I would also increase fares by exactly as much as I could get away with as often as I could.

That this is counter productive to what the government wants and should want to acheive regarding sustainable transport for the future of our economy is entirely down to government and not TOC.

Government created and supports the systems the TOC's operate in. The TOC's are simply players in the game.

Almost everything we dislike about the way TOC's operate is less the fault of the TOC than people would imagine.

It is not FGW's fault that FGW run 150's on 6 hour journeys whilst air conditioned 158's trundle between Brockenhurst and Lymington Pier. It is not FGW's fault that fares keep increasing above inflation,etc etc.
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tbtc said:
Poundland do a lot of that - they'll sell a multipack of crisps for a quid, but you only get five nowadays when you used to get six (so quite a price increase "per packet").

Both Greggs and Cadburys admitted to shrinking the size of their portions.

Yet some people only accept rail price increases where there's been some direct benefit to them.
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I think a notable difference between Poundland and the rail network is that Poundland does not consume billions of taxpayers money each year so there is no sense of entitlement. Poundland exist only to serve its shareholders.
 
tbtc

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Goatboy said:
I think a notable difference between Poundland and the rail network is that Poundland does not consume billions of taxpayers money each year so there is no sense of entitlement
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I think that "sense of entitlement" sums a lot of people's arguments up fairly well. Sadly.
 
ValleyLines142

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Rhydgaled said:
I beg to differ. I don't know what FirstGW's services are like so they could well be worse than ATW's, but my opinion is that ATW do certainly have trains that are overcrowded and they do need more stock. The 2-car 175s booked on some south-Wales - Manchester workings do not provide enough capacity at several points between Swansea and Manchester. Even the 3-car 175s aren't enough at times.
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Admittedly so, but Arriva really strive to strengthen service and also I have never been on a service so overcrowded with ATW to the point where I physically cannot board the train, as I have experienced with FGW three times.

tbtc said:
You are calling MCR247 "silly" and then claiming conditions on trains to be like the Black Hole of Calcutta? Erm...
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Because my example is true. Services are overcrowded. Orange juice is completely irrelevant and unrelated.

Class 33 said:
I do agree, at peak times they could run an additional service per hour to ease over-crowding. But I don't think FGW would be the least bit interested in doing so unfortunately.
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Somebody that agrees with me! Thank you :) the world is not going mad :lol:

Class 33 said:
Also, a little tricky slotting in a path for such a service, what with the bottle-neck up to Filton Junction and then the two HST's per hour from Bristol Parkway to Cardiff/South Wales. But I believe it could just about be possible though with a bit of careful planning. I've had a little go myself...

There could be an additional 1740 service from Bristol-Cardiff.

Bristol Temple Meads 1740
Severn Tunnel Junction 1804
Newport 1816
Cardiff Central(arr) 1830

Would involve a relaxed run riding the yellows from Filton through to STJ following an HST from Bristol Parkway departing 1745. Then also allowing a Cross Country service to get in front from Severn Tunnel Junction.

Most likely not as easy as that though. There could be problems slotting in a path to arrive at an available platform in Cardiff Central at that peak time. Then there's the additional running costs of running this extra service.

So instead probably easier and cheaper just to run the 1721 from Bristol-Cardiff with a couple of extra carriages! Including maybe a Loco hauled service instead of a DMU.
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I have so much respect for you right now; that is such a good theory. You've clearly planned that very well. I think FGW are interested; I do think it’s a case of whether they can be bothered to lend stock.

I think it could be possible. Arriva have managed to do this by extending the 1540 from Ebbv Vale to Bridgend; admittedly it's very tight as it is just in front of the 1445 London to Swansea service upon departure from Cardiff but it could work.

In terms of space at Cardiff, there is nothing booked to use platform between 1822 (1L55 to Swansea) and 1847 (2F23 from Penarth), except for the 1720 Aberthaw to East Usk Freight which passes through at 1838, but this could easily be routed to the through platforms between 2 and 3. Therefore, platform 4 would be available for this LHCS service.

I would very much like to see if this worked!
 
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Was there not a thread on here about FGW tendering for stock for the above? What was the outcome?
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Ah so that's why I couldn't find it, I was looking in the wrong place :D

So what happened with this?
 
anthony263

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Well Chiltern DVT 82309 has arrived at Bristol Barton hill where there does seem to be conflicting reportsd of it being used for training staff and some saying it is just for repairs.

I do hope its the former
 
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83G/84D

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Rumours abound that FGW are also "considering" a Par to Exeter St David's & return summer saturday's service using the loco and day coaches off the sleepers. Service would run ECS from Penzance / Long Rock to Par.

Might or might not happen, a few obstacles to be cleared yet apparently.
 
CC 72100

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83G/84D said:
Rumours abound that FGW are also "considering" a Par to Exeter St David's & return summer saturday's service using the loco and day coaches off the sleepers. Service would run ECS from Penzance / Long Rock to Par.

Might or might not happen, a few obstacles to be cleared yet apparently.
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Sounds interesting enough, but of 'eat my hat if it happens' level in probability if you ask me.

How many day coaches do they have in total, by the way? I'm aware that it's normally two per train, but that sometimes it goes up to 3 in the summer. Either way, we'd be looking at a capacity to a 150 or 2x 153
 
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The 07 36 Taunton to Bristol parkway and the 1700 Cardiff to Taunton load 4 coaches as Peak time trains.
 
richw

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AdamW said:
Sounds interesting enough, but of 'eat my hat if it happens' level in probability if you ask me.

How many day coaches do they have in total, by the way? I'm aware that it's normally two per train, but that sometimes it goes up to 3 in the summer. Either way, we'd be looking at a capacity to a 150 or 2x 153
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Friday night down sleeper normally has 3 seated coaches in summer.
Why run ECS to Par rather than in service?
 
83G/84D

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AdamW - I have my doubts if this will actually happen as well. No significant extra capacity from a unit so unless a unit is being released for something else I am not quite sure why this is being considered.
richw - I suspect that the reason it is ECS to Par is that there is already a path for a 2E75 1132 Par to Exeter that this loco-hauled train might use if it runs.

I am not a train planner or timetabler but suspect that changing the train to start as a passenger service from Penzance may involve extra charges or logistics. I could be wrong!

It is due to return as a 1753 Exeter to Penzance.
 
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PHILIPE

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83G/84D said:
AdamW - I have my doubts if this will actually happen as well. No significant extra capacity from a unit so unless a unit is being released for something else I am not quite sure why this is being considered.
richw - I suspect that the reason it is ECS to Par is that there is already a path for a 2E75 1132 Par to Exeter that this loco-hauled train might use if it runs.

I am not a train planner or timetabler but suspect that changing the train to start as a passenger service from Penzance may involve extra charges or logistics. I could be wrong!

It is due to return as a 1753 Exeter to Penzance.
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Could cost a guard to run as passenger rather than ECS Penzance to Par.
 
CC 72100

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83G/84D said:
AdamW - I have my doubts if this will actually happen as well. No significant extra capacity from a unit so unless a unit is being released for something else I am not quite sure why this is being considered.
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For enthusiasts ;)

On a serious note, it does seem if FGW are more likely to be short of 15x units than HSTs at the moment, as shown by the weekends last summer when they had a HST on a Taunton - Cardiff diagram.
 
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Its probably the logistics of getting it from Long Rock to Penzance and the reversal that is the issue, running it direct from Long Rock to Par is a simple pathing exercise.
 
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alanf

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Would it be worth running as a Penzance to Cardiff and return on a Saturday. I dont know how long this would take but i do know a lot of Welsh people holiday in this area. Is there any spare coaches to lengthen the train or are any HSTs spare on a Saturday
 
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AdamW said:
Sounds interesting enough, but of 'eat my hat if it happens' level in probability if you ask me.

How many day coaches do they have in total, by the way? I'm aware that it's normally two per train, but that sometimes it goes up to 3 in the summer. Either way, we'd be looking at a capacity to a 150 or 2x 153
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Remember that the new short-term FGW franchise specifically includes the provision of an extra seated coach (and a sleeping car) for the Night Riviera fleet, which will presumably be based at Long Rock
 
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jimm said:
Remember that the new short-term FGW franchise specifically includes the provision of an extra seated coach (and a sleeping car) for the Night Riviera fleet, which will presumably be based at Long Rock
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Ah wasn't aware of that - thanks. I'd be interested to know what the maximum train length behind a 57 would be, but if we've got up to 4 seated coaches at Long Rock at once, then this makes it a little bit more believable.
 
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Load 9 is used occasionally when demand on the Sleeper is particularly high, normally on bank holiday weekends. 3 seated carriages, the buffet/lounge and 5 sleeper carriages.
 
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I wonder if there is now a fundamental problem that will prevent any TOC trying to increase capacity by running a loco hauled service. As soon as news gets out the service will get filled with enthusiasts. This means capacity for normal people trying to use the train to get from A to B could actually be less than it was before hand!

I thought I read on here (but can now find it) that when EMT put a loco hauled service on the Crewe-Derby line there was a problem with a small number of unsociable enthusiasts blocking the vestibules in order to hang out of the windows.

DDB
 
sonic2009

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I can agree with everyone that there is a 1132 Par - Exeter St Davids but also there is a 0958 Plymouth - Par 1053 which would form the 1132 back towards Exeter one would assume.

If the rumours are true then it would a sight to see :)
 
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The 09:58 Plymouth-Par is not a very useful service. The 150 used to work it would be far better off attached to the 0928 Exeter St Davids-Penzance, which is just half an hour behind it and gets rather overcrowded.
 
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TEW said:
The 09:58 Plymouth-Par is not a very useful service. The 150 used to work it would be far better off attached to the 0928 Exeter St Davids-Penzance, which is just half an hour behind it and gets rather overcrowded.
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Indeed - especially when you have a HST in front of it on the 08:5x Plymouth - Newquay.

Good bet for a coach to yourself on a murky day in low season that one!
 
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TEW

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There's also the 09:23 Plymouth-Penzance HST, which is what the unit would normally work, as the 06:36 Bristol Temple Meads-Penzance.
 
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AdamW said:
Indeed - especially when you have a HST in front of it on the 08:5x Plymouth - Newquay.

Good bet for a coach to yourself on a murky day in low season that one!
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There's a Plymouth to Newquay HST working outside of the May to September season or does "low season" refer to a time within that period?
 
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STEVIEBOY1

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I Seem to remember in very recent years, FGW did have loco hauled or top and tailed on some Weymouth-Bristol trains.
 
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TEW

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Last time was 4 years ago now, the same time as Taunton-Cardiff LHCS was running. The Weymouth runs were actually just a single 67 for the last year or so.
 
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