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Is a single railcar a train?
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As far as the operational railway is concerned, a train is defined as a self propelled, rail mounted vehicle... including road/rail vehicles in rail mode.
ash39
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Is a Class 153 a DMU? If so, what does the multiple imply?
A single unit consisting of multiple coaches/carriages/cars
eg. 4-Car 465. (DMOS=TOS=TOSL=DMOS)
A train is 2 or more units
no doubt there is a specific rule book or RGS definition somewhere but that's my best guess what is meant by multiple unit. Hopefully someone will correct me and give an accurate response with the relevant linky.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_unit
Best I can find at the moment sorry about wikipedia usage :/
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
There are no trains running between Cardiff Queen St and Cardiff Bay and also between Coventry and Nuneaton.
You will see 153s running over the tracks, however.
You will see 153s running over the tracks, however.
3141
Established Member
So what about the DLR? Its rolling stock consists of "units" that operate singly or in pairs or in threes. (Used to operate singly, anyway.) But a unit has two sections which look like separate car or coach or carriage bodies. Would a single unitl there be a train?
[Hint for a future post - the GWR autotrain.]
[Hint for a future post - the GWR autotrain.]
PaxVobiscum
Established Member
What about a heavy loco?
"Weigh-it" a minute... we'll have to think about that.
If it "tares" along the line, I would think it safer to consider it as a train.
I'll get my coat.
The Decapod
Member
The units, or sets, on the DLR are 2 or 3 section articulated ones. That means although there are 2 or 3 separate bodies, each inner flexible joint of a unit is supported by a single, shared bogie, so it can't be uncoupled in the normal way.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
All the DLR units have two sections articulated together on three bogies, not three sections. They mostly run coupled in threes (ie six sections) but I think in pairs on quieter routes. I haven't seen one on its own since the early days of DLR, but then again I'm usually there during the week.
3141
Established Member
This, then, is another uncertain case. If a unit is articulated, are the coach bodies it consists of separate coaches, or not? I would say that a DLR unit is two coaches, even though they cannot easily be separated from the single bogie on which their inner ends rest.
People might argue about that. But would anyone claim that a Gresley quad-art - four coach bodies on five bogies - was not a train? Probably not.
People might argue about that. But would anyone claim that a Gresley quad-art - four coach bodies on five bogies - was not a train? Probably not.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
That's probably why the word "coach" isn't generally used for articulated units - "section" is a better word.
High Dyke
Established Member
Whilst there are many cases where a single car is the norm for many services / routes the continued lack of investment in extra stock for some operators...and the continued left hand / right hand attitude to proper maintenance means that sadly a single unit is a train. Unless of course that single unit has broken down... Yet another defective East Midlands Trains 'Dogbox' in service today.
But is there a strict pedantic dictionary definition? Looking at some online dictionaries I found:
Cambridge - a railway engine connected to carriages/cars for carrying people or to wheeled containers for carrying goods
Collins - a line of coaches or wagons coupled together and drawn by a railway locomotive
Oxford - A series of connected railway carriages or wagons moved by a locomotive or by integral motors
So only Oxford is almost right. If they replaced series with one or more, the problem would be solved.
What he said. If people call it a train, it is called a train
Sunbird24
Member
The use of train for a single car DMU vehicle comes under the same banner as train station. Both are relatively recent additions to our vocabulary introduced by people who do not fully understand the English language of yesteryear. This is the way language evolves.
Back in the earlier part of the last century the steam-powered coaches were not referred to as trains when there was only one unit but as a coach. Also, there was no such thing as a train station, it was always railway station, though going back even earlier the railway station was the main building and the trains used the train shed which referred to the lines in the covered platforms.
Until the 1950s engine shed, and later locomotive shed were used for all locomotives but when the masses of diesel locomotives started to appear they first used fuelling points and later diesel depots.
Who knows what other changes will come about in the next 50-100 years.
Back in the earlier part of the last century the steam-powered coaches were not referred to as trains when there was only one unit but as a coach. Also, there was no such thing as a train station, it was always railway station, though going back even earlier the railway station was the main building and the trains used the train shed which referred to the lines in the covered platforms.
Until the 1950s engine shed, and later locomotive shed were used for all locomotives but when the masses of diesel locomotives started to appear they first used fuelling points and later diesel depots.
Who knows what other changes will come about in the next 50-100 years.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
The railway has always referred to a single railcar or light engine as a train so this isn't a recent thing. For example block instruments have a setting called "Train on line" and I would imagine station announcements and departure boards have always referred to "The next train to" even if it was a steam railmotor.
a QA is a carriage. Quad Art + N2, now thats a train.... the DLR case is harder since its self propelled
I prefer the old definitions, train for a 2+car DMU, EMU or locomotive + hauled stock of any sort, light engine for a locomotive alone, railcar or tramcar for anything else.
The word train existed for centuries before railways did. It means 'to be pulled' hence training in the sense of drawing people to knowledge. Arguably a power-twin DMU/EMU isnt a train but you can be too specific....
Sunbird24
Member
Station announcements and departure boards are also a relatively recent innovation in most cases for most stations. Announcements were nothing more than a shout from a worker on the platform or the station master on smaller stations and departure boards were literally a wooden board attached to a post or wall at the end of the platform on some stations, but not many. Manual systems in most cases, remember most of the technology in use today just did not exist prior to the 1960s or later.
While it is true that block instruments used the simple wording of "up train on line" or "down train on line"and bell signals referred to "trains", this was clarified in the codes which separated light engines and railmotors etc from the various passenger and goods trains. In this respect different companies used different codes and different terminology.
The word train evolved from an old latin word which meant to draw or pull.
To bring it all into perspective, try reading this:
It all sounds very complicated, so ponder this.
The instrument shows Line Blocked when the line is not blocked, but shows Train on Line when the line is blocked. If the Line is clear, it shows Line Blocked but if it shows Line Clear, there is a train coming. If it says Line Closed, the line isn't closed, because if it was closed the block instrument would be taken away. It will show Train on Line if the train is on the line, but will also show Train on Line if the train is off the line. So, if the block instrument shows Normal, things probably are very normal indeed.
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