Cannot change seat reservation unless pay £10

suzanneparis · 1 Nov 2015

As per a previous post a woman with a baby is travelling from London to Leicester on the 20:15.

A friend is already booked onto that train.

The friend just bought a ticket for the mother and baby from London to Leicester on the 20:15 but the staff at Leicester station refused to issue a new seat reservation for the friend so that they could all sit together unless a fee of £10 was paid.

I have had seat reservations changed free of charge in the past - even on cheap 'this train only' services.

Is this a new policy?

RailUK Forums

yorkie · 1 Nov 2015

What is the ticket type?

I believe different Train Companies have different policies.

Some class it as a "change of travel plans", which is absurd in my opinion, but there is no effective regulator or ombudsman, and no passenger watchdog with any real powers. So we have inconsistency and some anti-customer policies by some of the less friendly Train Companies.

I know VTEC allow it, but EMT are generally less customer friendly than VTEC in my experience.

najaB · 1 Nov 2015

suzanneparis said:
I have had seat reservations changed free of charge in the past - even on cheap 'this train only' services.

Is this a new policy?

Even the TOCs that charge for seat reservations don't charge that much. Are you sure the person in the ticket office understood it was same train, different seat? £10 is ridiculous.

suzanneparis · 1 Nov 2015

Yes they definitely understood it was the same train.

A rather frustrating, and upsetting experience apparently - though I was not personally there.

The friend wanted to buy the ticket for the mother + baby. And also alter their own seat reservation on the same train so that they were sitting together and so the friend could help the mother.

Apparently you have to pay £10 with EMT to do that.

To me that seems a little harsh. I would have hoped that TOCs were more baby/child friendly.

Perhaps I should write to the transport minister, Patrick McLoughlin, and find out what, if any, policies the government has on helping young mothers with babies on trains.

najaB · 1 Nov 2015

suzanneparis said:
Perhaps I should write to the transport minister, Patrick McLoughlin, and find out what, if any, policies the government has on helping young mothers with babies on trains.

None. Welcome to a world of equality.

suzanneparis · 1 Nov 2015

Just double checked. The ticket office person was fully aware it was the same train. The friend showed her the ticket that she had already booked.

hairyhandedfool · 1 Nov 2015

suzanneparis said:
....I have had seat reservations changed free of charge in the past - even on cheap 'this train only' services.

Is this a new policy?

If it was an "Advance" ticket, the Advance FAQs (as available on this site so you can look it up for yourself if you wish) note:

"Q12 - A passenger has an Advance ticket but would like to change their seat allocation. Are they able
to do this at the station in advance?

A: Yes, but this counts as a change as it takes retail time and therefore incurs a £10 fee per single ticket
(some TOCs e.g. Virgin Trains may choose to waive this and will inform you). Seat preferences should be
detailed when making the booking, not later. The Conditions above shows that the ticket is only valid in
the seat shown and this is the strict message to get across. However, tell the passenger that on-train staff may
allow them to move if space allows."

These FAQs have been around for a few years now so it's not new.

gray1404 · 1 Nov 2015

I would not pay that under any circumstances. I would get reservations in the event that the service is busy and then see on day if you can get seats together. I note you are not going at peak time so I would like to think you would be ok.

suzanneparis · 1 Nov 2015

Thank you both.

I cannot understand why EMT cannot be as kind as Virgin Trains!

yorkie · 1 Nov 2015

suzanneparis said:
Thank you both.

I cannot understand why EMT cannot be as kind as Virgin Trains!

I think EMT are more like what Brian Souter wants, and treat people more like how he wants them to be treated. In contrast, any operator in which Virgin are involved has to be more customer-focussed because it would otherwise risk damaging the brand.

So, you have a negative experience of EMT and Stagecoach. Is he bothered? Not a chance!

If it was Virgin, it would be a different story.

And there's nothing any of us can do about it!

suzanneparis · 1 Nov 2015

Thank you yorkie.

How disappointing.

yorkie · 1 Nov 2015

No worries.

suzanneparis said:
...Perhaps I should write to the transport minister, Patrick McLoughlin, ....

You could try writing to EMT asking them to reconsider their policy of charging £10 fees. If they refuse, refer the matter to Transport Focus, if they are no help then escalate it to your MP and Patrick McLoughlin.

I know it's a pain but it's better to follow the full procedure; you are more likely to get a result out of it.

You could mention that some operators waive the £10 admin fee, and all you want is consistency so that no operators are allowed to charge it.

najaB · 1 Nov 2015

suzanneparis said:
Thank you yorkie.

How disappointing.

Unfortunately different companies come with different corporate cultures. The Stagecoach group very much works on the "pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap" principle so it should come as no surprise that their train operations are very much like their biggest bus brands.

suzanneparis · 1 Nov 2015

Except that the fares from Leicester to London first thing in the morning are anything but cheap - for me as a pensioner!

najaB · 1 Nov 2015

suzanneparis said:
Except that the fares from Leicester to London first thing in the morning are anything but cheap - for me as a pensioner!

I know. By "pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap" I mean that quality of customer service (and everything else) comes a distant second to maximising profit. Perhaps I should add a codicil "Pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap, but gouge 'em when you can."

Edit: They do sell 'em cheap as well - witness the MegaTrain.

bb21 · 1 Nov 2015

If you want consistency, be careful what you wish for. You might not get an outcome you like.

Given that charging an admin fee is the official policy, those that did not apply discretion to waive the fee cannot be said to be in the wrong, unfriendly as they may be.

Leicester ticket office is one of the best and most competent in the country ime, as opposed to other EMT ticket offices.

The term "journey plan" is not defined. Is the seat reservation part of the package in a "journey plan"? No one knows.

mullin · 1 Nov 2015

suzanneparis said:
Thank you both.

I cannot understand why EMT cannot be as kind as Virgin Trains!

I've been asked to pay the £10 at Wigan NW in the past, when other times have been free...

najaB · 2 Nov 2015

My local ticket office has never refused to do it, and I've managed to do it at a handful of others - Northern, VTEC and VTWC spring to mind.

gray1404 · 2 Nov 2015

Is it only on Advances you need to pay such a fee?

bb21 · 2 Nov 2015

gray1404 said:
Is it only on Advances you need to pay such a fee?

AFAIK, yes.

87 027 · 2 Nov 2015

bb21 said:
If you want consistency, be careful what you wish for. You might not get an outcome you like.

Indeed. In a thread earlier this summer you raised the discrepancy in fares to London from Birmingham and Leicester. Those cheap fares existed because Virgin allowed certain railcard holders to use off-peak tickets at peak travel times. That concession was withdrawn in September.

I sympathise. East Coast a few years ago (in National Express days) tried to charge me £40 to allow a family of 4 to sit together as the online booking had not given us adjacent seats.

Bletchleyite · 2 Nov 2015

So, you take a deep discount Advance ticket, and administrative time is required to make the change. Why should there not be a fee?

talldave · 2 Nov 2015

suzanneparis said:
......
To me that seems a little harsh. I would have hoped that TOCs were more baby/child friendly.

Perhaps I should write to the transport minister, Patrick McLoughlin, and find out what, if any, policies the government has on helping young mothers with babies on trains.

To be fair, it's got nothing to do with babies/children. Everyone trying to change a reservation gets treated the same.

suzanneparis · 2 Nov 2015

The ticket cost, I think, £38 single from London to Leicester at an off peak time in the evening. Hardly a deep discount.

It seems from other comments that Virgin can change the seat reservation free of charge. Why not EMT.

Finally, the admin effort: When I had a seat reservation changed a few months ago it took literally a minute. Maybe a charge of 50p would be more like it. Or even a pound. That would cover costs and be passenger friendly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I should have added that my experience of the Leicester ticket office has mostly been very positive in the past.

DaveNewcastle · 2 Nov 2015

suzanneparis said:
It seems from other comments that Virgin can change the seat reservation free of charge. Why not EMT.

Ah, they can, but have chosen to adopt a policy in which they will not.

infobleep · 2 Nov 2015

Perhaps they need to charge because they make such a lost on all the administration for other tickets that they are not allowed to charge for.

yorkie · 2 Nov 2015

Neil Williams said:
So, you take a deep discount Advance ticket, and administrative time is required to make the change. Why should there not be a fee?

Administration time is required for a lot of things for which there is no fee.

VTEC allow you to make a change on their website (if you booked a ticket for travel with VTEC on the VTEC website) so there doesn't necessarily have to be any administration time required anyway!

Bletchleyite · 2 Nov 2015

suzanneparis said:
The ticket cost, I think, £38 single from London to Leicester at an off peak time in the evening. Hardly a deep discount.

Substantial from the Anytime I imagine.

Finally, the admin effort: When I had a seat reservation changed a few months ago it took literally a minute.

So does refunding a walk-up ticket, but that costs £10 too. The railway has decided it is the standard admin fee for any administrative work.

FWIW, though, I personally feel the reservation should be separated from the travel ticket and should be £2 a go. Want a new or different one? £2. Want one if you don't have one? £2. I also think seat selection should be available nationally on all trains where exact formation is known, though, which is most of them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

yorkie said:
VTEC allow you to make a change on their website (if you booked a ticket for travel with VTEC on the VTEC website) so there doesn't necessarily have to be any administration time required anyway!

Interestingly airlines vary on this - easyJet will let you swap as many times as you want once you've paid for selection, while Flybe charge for each selection.

infobleep · 2 Nov 2015

Neil Williams said:
Substantial from the Anytime I imagine.

So does refunding a walk-up ticket, but that costs £10 too. The railway has decided it is the standard admin fee for any administrative work.

FWIW, though, I personally feel the reservation should be separated from the travel ticket and should be £2 a go. Want a new or different one? £2. Want one if you don't have one? £2. I also think seat selection should be available nationally on all trains where exact formation is known, though, which is most of them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Interestingly airlines vary on this - easyJet will let you swap as many times as you want once you've paid for selection, while Flybe charge for each selection.

That's never going to happen on commuter trains into London and that includes ones from Portsmouth Harbour.

Bletchleyite · 2 Nov 2015

talldave said:
To be fair, it's got nothing to do with babies/children. Everyone trying to change a reservation gets treated the same.

In any case, those with babies/children already get more than enough consideration:

1. Totally free travel for under 5s;
2. Family Railcard allowing a parent and child to travel for *less* than an adult would pay to travel alone;
3. Half fare for other children.

I see no reason to give them any more special treatment than they already have.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

infobleep said:
That's never going to happen on commuter trains into London and that includes ones from Portsmouth Harbour.

Sorry, I meant "where reservations are available *and* formation is known". Reservations indeed don't work on commuter trains (LM tried and failed).

Cannot change seat reservation unless pay £10

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