DarloRich
Veteran Member
Plenty of HST coming up soon
I do agree with your points although i really dont like using the as they are in my view uncomfortable and horridly busy.
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XC Voyagers
- Thread starter Masboroughlad
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Plenty of HST coming up soon
I do agree with your points although i really dont like using the as they are in my view uncomfortable and horridly busy.
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RailUK Forums
It doesn't seem right to judge the class 800s when they haven't entered service yet
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The seats aren't that terrible, I tried them in the ScotRail 385 mockup, they are the same seats as in 1st in those units.
In particular those who don't like modern very high backed seats as they like to see along the coach will like them. They are about the same height as IC70s.
I mean trains with reasonable leg room (at 6 foot I find the 159's a squash compared to a Voyager).
I also think that given that they would be 10 coach (fixed length) units that the would be plenty of space once they got past Salisbury and even after Basingstoke they would start to enjoy it a bit. Therefore at most they would be full for 90 minutes meaning no more tales of wow about having to spend 3 hours on a rammed Voyager.
The longest journey that would have to be made would be 3.5 hours and in reality probably relatively few people would do so (unless they were looking to save some money), as it is probably mostly people from Woking and West of there that would be going to Exeter via that route (the exception being Clapham Junction) as via Reading would for most be quicker.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Replacing the seats solves that, they are quite thick backed as built (the Grammer seat gives more legroom at a tighter pitch on ATW and EMT, so put them in the original pitch and it'll be very generous). But having said that, there are plenty of tables in 158s so that's a bit less of an issue than Voyagers where there are almost none.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
No!!!! Why do people keep doing that!!! The HSTs are ancient! OK, so when people get to about 70 or so years old, they retire from work. They retire. They don't then go and apply to be the manager of an office!! Bad anology, I know. But the HSTs are past it, squeaky, will splinter into bits if they crash, trundle along slowly and they're so blooming overrated! HSTs will never work the XC franchise again, bar the current ones.
I totally agree. Now these are far more likely to work XC routes, although probably not for a while.
J-2739
Established Member
This is off topic, but I honestly think it was cookoo for TPE to order them as 5 car trains, to replace (sometimes) 8 car 350s. It's not like they can couple them (will they fit at Manchester airport?)
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Should we also knock down houses and build afresh when they are 70 years old? Trains are more like houses than cars.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
If not, then there is such a thing as selective door operation!
MidnightFlyer
Veteran Member
- Joined
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- 12,857
Doesn't help you if it fouls the junction at the station throat!
Edit - That said I would have thought something load seven would fit at Airport.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Ridiculous comment. If you still had trains from seventy years ago your local WCML would be operated by 1940s wartime steam locomotives. And please don't be annoying and say you'd like that, because you may think that but if it happened you wouldn't!
J-2739
Established Member
DarloRich
Veteran Member
oh dear.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Oh my god why does that little reply make me feel like the biggest dream crushing jerk out there?
Sorry for being so hard, Mr DarloRich! It just seems to come out!
Aye! I do think it would be an easy sticking plaster for the XC franchise to take on some HSTs to enable more Voyager services to be doubled (along with original December timetable proposal which has since seemingly been watered down by various parties). My long term goal would be to have them soldier on with Voyagers out to the late 2020s and then just do a total fleet replacement of both Voyagers (which would be almost thirty years old) and HSTs.
Heck, why not copy BR practice and introduce some new rolling stock on one of the ECML/GWML to enable 800s to be cascaded onto secondary routes (XC in this case). After all BR used to reckon on needing to modernise its crack Intercity services roughly every ten years so the 800s would be due to cascading under that formula!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Heck, why not copy BR practice and introduce some new rolling stock on one of the ECML/GWML to enable 800s to be cascaded onto secondary routes (XC in this case). After all BR used to reckon on needing to modernise its crack Intercity services roughly every ten years so the 800s would be due to cascading under that formula!
If they could just get round to finishing wiring the GWML so they could buy some EMUs for it that would be entirely sensible.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Once again I would like to defend Voyagers and say they are brilliant at their job, they just need more carriages per set.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Oh my god why does that little reply make me feel like the biggest dream crushing jerk out there?
Sorry for being so hard, Mr DarloRich! It just seems to come out!
Strange. I meant it was a silly, childish, immature and inexperienced thing to say.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Oh god. Gulp
Voyagers v HST .... the majority would pick a HST. Voyagers having engine under each coach making them unnecessarily noisy, seats not lined up with windows, smelly toilets...just 3 negatives.
Sprinter153
Member
Might I recommend this link? It has restored so much clarity and proportionality to my forum reading experience.
i think i am very close to using this too .....grrrrrr
185143
Established Member
- Joined
- 3 Mar 2013
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- 4,521
Used it already...
158747
Member
HSTs "splinter into bits if they crash"
I don't think that is correct.
416GSi
Member
The HST's are not 'ancient', sure they are 40 years old but could have another 20 years service life if its economically worth while to resolve the issues they do have, i.e the main ones being the doors and discharge toilets.
Not everyone who retires stays retired. It know at least half a dozen people who are still working in their 80s having already retired and returned to work.
Regarding the HST's being squeaky, they are no worse than many a more modern train, including the Voyergers.
Crash protection wise the MK 3 carriages are still up there with the best, if anything they were over engineered and stil have years of safe operation ahead of them if you take into account the assessment done for Chiltern railways which concluded (if I remember correctly) that they have a 20 year life ahead of them. One thing is certain,they won't splinter to bit if they crash, far from it. The power cars are also in a good condition and are as safe as any other locomotive.
The top speed of the HST's is a 125, faster than many trains on the network. Sure they are not the quickest off the mark, but that certain doesn't mean they 'trundle along slowly'
The HST are train of the 1970's. In my view thay were way ahead of their time, still being considered by many as a modern viable train 40 years later. Other classes,such as the Voyergers were hardly leading edge when introduced. This is one of the reasons that they are highly regarded, they have staying power, are are still viable years after lesser trains have been withdrawn. When the Voyergers hit 40 (or even 30) will the operators have any work for them or be looking to upgrade them...I doubt it, but ScotRail and to a lesser extent GWR are doing that with the HST's, and that's not just down to a shortage of available stock.
One thing I do agree with you is in relation to the Cross Country operations, they are not really suitable for that route, and never really were. But that doesn't mean that they don't have future, as ScotRail are about to prove.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
20 years! Well, maybe ten with power doors. They’d have to be on very mild routes though.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Why? Put a new engine and driveline in and they're basically a new train mechanically.
The bodyshells are solid, as are the bogies. Those are the really expensive bits. Anything else you can, if economic, build on top. I refer you back to houses. My house was built in 1970 and it's not due to be knocked down each week because I have refurbished it. Having done so, it is in the same condition as a new one would be, better in some ways because it is of more traditional, more solid construction, being brick/breeze block rather than wooden framed.
Trains are not cars. Cars are designed to last about 10 years / 150K miles. Trains are designed to last basically indefinitely.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
what on earth are you talking about?
i refuse to use it. It smacks of giving in
gg1
Established Member
Moving away from HSTs for a moment, what are peoples thoughts on the likelihood of VTWC (or the next owner of the West Coast franchise) replacing all their Voyagers with bi-modes? The resulting cascade of Voyagers would solve many of XC's overcrowding issues at a stroke.
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