Southern Class 455 PRM modifications

Class455 · 4 Apr 2018

Has 455831 returned from Wolverton yet?

RailUK Forums

BobSmith833 · 4 Apr 2018

I watched this promo video recently, and they make the refurbishment sound terribly exciting .. Then I travel on 455824 this morning and all it is is a new button on the door. Disappointing .

Bletchleyite · 4 Apr 2018

It seems like it is a full refresh as well but to basically the same interior scheme so not visible other than in reduced wear. A bit like you can barely tell the new Pendolino vehicles from the original ones because they have identical interiors.

Interesting that the green is brush painted - I'd assumed everything would be sprayed or decals.

Class455 · 4 Apr 2018

BobSmith833 said:
I watched this promo video recently, and they make the refurbishment sound terribly exciting .. Then I travel on 455824 this morning and all it is is a new button on the door. Disappointing .

You're looking at a video for the 2012 refurbs

.

I'm not entirely sure why the 455's are going to Wolverton if nothing much is being done to them. Usually they'd carry out the work, but the door work and gangway door handles seem to be being done in house.

Islineclear3_1 · 4 Apr 2018

This is an old video; there's a Southeastern Class 508 in the background

Class455 · 9 Apr 2018

455804 and 455828 now at Wolverton

Class455 · 20 Apr 2018

455811 and 455822 noted with new door alarms.

Class455 · 26 Apr 2018

455831 becomes the second fully modified unit with new door buttons, while 455826 has recently had them installed. Any other units that I haven't mentioned on the list?

Bikeman78 · 26 Apr 2018

swt_passenger said:
The main discussion for the last two years seems to have been around people presuming they should be replaced now once Thameslink replaces many 377s by 700s. The reply from insiders has then usually been that there are no plans to send them off lease during the current franchise, just to diagram them less intensively.

Does anyone have any info as to which routes the 455s will be used on from May? RTT suggests the following routes (75 mph schedules):
London Bridge to Caterham via Tulse Hill,
London Bridge to Beckenham Junction,
London Bridge to Coulsdon Town via Sydenham,
Peak hour London Bridge to Wimbledon

This equates to 32 units, assuming all are pairs. Leasing 46 units for 32 diagrams is rather excessive. This website https://www.railplan2020.com/
shows the 0801 Victoria to Caterham as 455 as well. This makes sense as it ties in with the Caterham to London Bridge diagrams but I can't find an inward working to Victoria to form it.

Class455 · 26 Apr 2018

John Clausen said:
Does anyone have any info as to which routes the 455s will be used on from May? RTT suggests the following routes (75 mph schedules):
London Bridge to Caterham via Tulse Hill,
London Bridge to Beckenham Junction,
London Bridge to Coulsdon Town via Sydenham,
Peak hour London Bridge to Wimbledon

This equates to 32 units, assuming all are pairs. Leasing 46 units for 32 diagrams is rather excessive. This website https://www.railplan2020.com/
shows the 0801 Victoria to Caterham as 455 as well. This makes sense as it ties in with the Caterham to London Bridge diagrams but I can't find an inward working to Victoria to form it.

Won't they be used on Sutton metro services too?

FOH · 26 Apr 2018

I recall Southern saying somewhere that due to their age and condition they would not be intensely diagrammed anymore

MatthewRead · 26 Apr 2018

I take it they haven't done anything to the seats like what they are doing to the 377's.

Class455 · 26 Apr 2018

FOH said:
I recall Southern saying somewhere that due to their age and condition they would not be intensely diagrammed anymore

I heard the same, however reliability work could be the reason why they're being sent to Wolverton since no PRM mods are being done there?

Still waiting to go and catch a 455 drag on the WCML, hope the next move is sometime when I'm off and it isn't late at night.

Bikeman78 · 26 Apr 2018

Class455 said:
Won't they be used on Sutton metro services too?

They will run peak trains to Sutton via West Croydon, these tie in with the off peak trains to Caterham and Coulsdon Town. All trains via Mitcham are timed for 377s and shown as such on the railplan2020 timetables.

John

Bikeman78 · 26 Apr 2018

FOH said:
I recall Southern saying somewhere that due to their age and condition they would not be intensely diagrammed anymore

Yes I expected their use to be reduced but I took that to mean fewer routes and/or less off peak work. I didn't expect almost a third of the fleet to be standing idle!

John

swt_passenger · 26 Apr 2018

There’s still presumably some suitable part diagrams for 455s on stuff like those peak only WLL services that keep to the DC part of the route.

Fincra5 · 27 Apr 2018

FOH said:
I recall Southern saying somewhere that due to their age and condition they would not be intensely diagrammed anymore

Funny really as 313s are going to be used more intensively in the new timetable :lol:

Bikeman78 · 27 Apr 2018

Fincra5 said:
Funny really as 313s are going to be used more intensively in the new timetable

Do you mean the Southern 313s? They're already quite intensive used. IIRC 16 diagrams for 19 units with most out all day. There's one to Ore weekday mornings at the moment. I assume that will cease in May.

Islineclear3_1 · 27 Apr 2018

John Clausen said:
Do you mean the Southern 313s? They're already quite intensive used. IIRC 16 diagrams for 19 units with most out all day. There's one to Ore weekday mornings at the moment. I assume that will cease in May.

Is this the one that returns to Brighton and then runs to Littlehampton shed? Missed my chances now on that one if the diagram goes over to 377

IKB · 27 Apr 2018

John Clausen said:
Yes I expected their use to be reduced but I took that to mean fewer routes and/or less off peak work. I didn't expect almost a third of the fleet to be standing idle!

John

They won't be standing idle. More of them will be running around all day as 8-car fixed formations (much less attach/detach at terminals). Currently many 455s diagrams operate as 4-cars off peak.

tsr · 27 Apr 2018

swt_passenger said:
There’s still presumably some suitable part diagrams for 455s on stuff like those peak only WLL services that keep to the DC part of the route.

All planned for 377s, as it stands.

IKB said:
They won't be standing idle. More of them will be running around all day as 8-car fixed formations (much less attach/detach at terminals). Currently many 455s diagrams operate as 4-cars off peak.

I believe that most if not all will be 8 coach formations.

class387 · 27 Apr 2018

John Clausen said:
Do you mean the Southern 313s? They're already quite intensive used. IIRC 16 diagrams for 19 units with most out all day. There's one to Ore weekday mornings at the moment. I assume that will cease in May.

I don't know about Southern's, but GN's 313s (which are in worse condition), will be used much more intensively, having to operate a 4tph frequency for I think the first time in their 40 year life.

Fincra5 · 28 Apr 2018

John Clausen said:
Do you mean the Southern 313s? They're already quite intensive used. IIRC 16 diagrams for 19 units with most out all day. There's one to Ore weekday mornings at the moment. I assume that will cease in May.

Indeed they are but the daily workings for SN 313s are rising. More are heading out earlier and to bed later. The Ore service is indeed changing to a 377... but then all the times are changing and stopping patterns.

Class455 · 28 Apr 2018

If Southern really concerned about the reliability of the 455's, hence diagramming them less intensively then once the SWR fleet go off lease, then maybe they could retraction them using the Vossloh motors off the ex SWR 455's if they're not going to be used again?
But what I can't understand is that the 313's, which are around 10 years older, are being diagrammed more intensively??

Class455 · 28 Apr 2018

tsr said:
I believe that most if not all will be 8 coach formations.

If that's the case, then surely platform extensions at Kenley, Whyteleafe and Whyteleafe South and stations along the Tattenham Corner line will have to take place, since there will still be 8 car 455's serving those lines, without SDO.

ert47 · 28 Apr 2018

Class455 said:
If that's the case, then surely platform extensions at Kenley, Whyteleafe and Whyteleafe South and stations along the Tattenham Corner line will have to take place, since there will still be 8 car 455's serving those lines, without SDO.

The rear unit of the Caterham 455s will be locked out at Purley/Caterham, the 455s heading down the Tattenham Line are only going as far as Coulsdon Town (in normal service) - not sure if they'll also be locked out on the way down or not as Reedham and Coulsdon Town platforms should be long enough

Class455 · 28 Apr 2018

ert47 said:
The rear unit of the Caterham 455s will be locked out at Purley/Caterham, the 455s heading down the Tattenham Line are only going as far as Coulsdon Town (in normal service) - not sure if they'll also be locked out on the way down or not as Reedham and Coulsdon Town platforms should be long enough

But why continue to do that when you could just extend the platforms and allow the full length of the train to be used? As it is the morning trains are really busy. Caterham can fit 8 coaches too, and Whyteleafe can apparently take 7 coaches. There's plenty of room for Platform extensions too, the only people I can see opposing it is the local residents who live behind the railway especially between Kenley and Whyteleafe.

455804 is now fully modified.

swt_passenger · 28 Apr 2018

Class455 said:
If Southern really concerned about the reliability of the 455's, hence diagramming them less intensively then once the SWR fleet go off lease, then maybe they could retraction them using the Vossloh motors off the ex SWR 455's if they're not going to be used again?
But what I can't understand is that the 313's, which are around 10 years older, are being diagrammed more intensively??

SN and SWR 455 fleets are in different ownership. Is there any evidence SN really think theirs are less reliable, or is it an assumption being used to try and justify the future situation. It’s surely likely that lower utilisation might mean many of them only get used in the peaks, or weekdays only. But that doesn’t mean they actually have too many...

As said by others earlier, more intensive diagramming of 313s was probably referring to the GN dual voltage 313s, where frequencies are significantly changing. SN’s 313s aren’t doing anything much different to now.

IKB · 28 Apr 2018

Class455 said:
But why continue to do that when you could just extend the platforms and allow the full length of the train to be used? As it is the morning trains are really busy. Caterham can fit 8 coaches too, and Whyteleafe can apparently take 7 coaches. There's plenty of room for Platform extensions too, the only people I can see opposing it is the local residents who live behind the railway especially between Kenley and Whyteleafe.

455804 is now fully modified.

Platform extensions would cost a lot of money and are not really needed on the branch. Off-peak you could get away with running a two car unit Caterham-Purley and still have a carriage full of free seats. The coaches will get much fuller the closer the train gets to London. The 455s will probably be gone within 5 years and replaced with SDO stock rendering any platform extensions pointless. Why extend the platforms when off-peak you've barely got a coach full of passengers? There is 3 minutes in the new timetable at Purley (as now) to lock out the rear four coaches. Peak time will be 377/6s with SDO.
The Bridge-Coulsdon Town will be 8 coach 455 but will remain unlocked as Reedham and Couldson Town are both 8 coach platforms.

ert47 · 28 Apr 2018

Class455 said:
But why continue to do that when you could just extend the platforms and allow the full length of the train to be used? As it is the morning trains are really busy. Caterham can fit 8 coaches too, and Whyteleafe can apparently take 7 coaches. There's plenty of room for Platform extensions too, the only people I can see opposing it is the local residents who live behind the railway especially between Kenley and Whyteleafe.

455804 is now fully modified.

services in the morning peak on the CATTAT branches will be formed of 5 car 377s, no 455s there until the off peak starts up

Southern Class 455 PRM modifications

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