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Northern timetable plan for May 2018
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Not showing as a short formation on Journey Check.
Oh well. I may have to turn up earlier next time !
Would be an ideal candidate for strengthening with a 153.
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Looks like 1451 Lancaster to Leeds has been retimed to leave Lancaster 5 minutes earlier on weekdays from today until the 27th July, matching the Saturday service. From 30th July, train will start at Morecambe 1503 and then call at Lancaster 1515, so no weekday Bare Lane curve service from that point.
Loop & Link
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Booked 158+153 that 10:49.
That's good to know !
This one? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y21389/2018/06/27/advanced
I'm a relatively new commuter on the Harrogate line, but this still caught my eye as i saw that train speed straight through Hornbeam Park. To get this fast from Harrogate to Leeds regularly would surely need 4-tracking at some places? Especially once they start a 15-minute regular service...
(I have to add... after the 14X and 150 services, with **** poor legroom, the class 170 is a breath of fresh air. Even when its aircon isn't working)
That was the one, the driver certainly seemed to be testing out the capabilities of the 170 while he had the chance!
Only on the Harrogate line at the moment can you turn up for a train and basically play such a wide game of Northern unit lottery, today we go from the class 170 to a 144!
Only on the Harrogate line at the moment can you turn up for a train and basically play such a wide game of Northern unit lottery, today we go from the class 170 to a 144!
Jamesrob637
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Glad to see 06:35 Buxton to Piccadilly is 4 coaches (more morning capacity at Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme) but is 09:11 Piccadilly to Buxton regularly only 2-car? Went over Stockport Viaduct this morning as 2-car and nothing on Journey Check...
Is there a reason why that would need more than 2 cars? There did used to be a 4 or even 6 car departure from Piccadilly for Buxton after 9am but that was primarily so that some carriages could be moved to Buxton to be out of the way until the evening peak. Given there's now 2tph to Buxton and an hourly Hazel Grove EMU on top of that a single 153 would probably suffice on some off-peak services which don't call at both Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme.
Jamesrob637
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That's what I thought the 09:11 may have served as...
Loop & Link
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It is booked 2 units the 09:11 (2x150’s) one detaches stay at Buxton until 15:02.
From December, the off peak services will be 3 car 170s and the peak services will be 2 X 2 car 150s, the 15minute services will be
XX00 all stations Leeds to Harrogate
XX15 Horsforth, Harrogate, Starbeck, Knaresborough.
XX30 All stations to Harrogate
XX45 Horsforth, Harrogate, all stations to York.
As Harrogate Line Rail User Group member we are trying to get all trains to stop at Burley Park and Headingley, as these are the 3rd and 4th busiest stations after Harrogate and Horsforth, we also consider the Harrogate line is a Metro service and not an express route and Northern trains should stop at all stations. There is still intentions that LNER trains will have 5 trains a day in both directions between London KX and Harrogate via Leeds with all stopping at Horsforth in both directions.
I can't see it being as simple as that. I can see a 4 car 150 arriving at Leeds from York/Harrogate at the end of the morning peak and a 3 car 170 arriving from somewhere else and the 3 car 170 going to York/Harrogate and the 4 car 150 being split with one of the units taking over from the 3 car 170 on the other line. However, 4 car 150s on all peak services and 3 car 170s on all off-peak services would mean very complicated logistics.
Does the 16:11 Piccadilly to Buxton (the return working of the 15:02) need 4 carriages when there's a 16:24 to Hazel Grove as well? If not there's other services around that time which are overcrowded and if they were strengthened the extra 150 could still be returned to Piccadilly in time to strengthen a later Buxton line service.
Is that not exactly the service pattern that the Harrogate Line Rail User Group objected to so veriferacely last time around, resulting in the Harrogate terminators being the semi expresses, and the Knaresborough and York services being the all stoppers?
Of course it all has to fit around the LNER services, there isn't the capacity for them to be in addition to the Northern services, so, as per the franchise agreement, Northern can drop a service when LNER run. This of course is made easier by the Harrogate terminators being the semi expresses, as you can just one for one swap it with an LNER, however other than that you end up starting a service at Harrogate, which would have to depart before the LNER arrives, as I believe you can only depart north from Harrogate from Platform 1?
Heard a story from an informed source that the 170s may be spreading their wings in the reasonably near future. Something about the gearboxes which change over at 65mph. I'm no tecchie, so I'm not sure of the exact issue.
However as the Harrogate line is 65 max speed, they seem to be using more oil than desirable. Use on the Calder Valley was mentioned where linespeeds are higher in places...
There is more to this traction knowledge than I understand but that was the gist of the conversation.
However as the Harrogate line is 65 max speed, they seem to be using more oil than desirable. Use on the Calder Valley was mentioned where linespeeds are higher in places...
There is more to this traction knowledge than I understand but that was the gist of the conversation.
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I also thought that they managed to squeeze stops in at Hornbeam Park for the semi-expresses. At least bulletin 24 at http://www.harrogateline.org/ said so. In fact, the new May timetable had some semi-express peak services up to around late April, before the current pattern was put in place (stopping everywhere).
Swapping for an existing pattern would make sense, but otherwise the LNER services can be a pain.
The current single LNER service at 0735 puts big hole in the commuter services at that time in the morning - at least if you aren't at Harrogate or Horsforth. The 23 minutes between stopping services makes the first stopper afterwards awfully busy - especially if it gets less than 2x2 150's.
The single LNER return in the evening is even worse. It uses one of the half-hourly slots to Harrogate, so if you're a small-station user, your service becomes hourly as of 19:30. Ludicrously early. Or perhaps I was spoiled living in Woking.
The current pattern uses 3 of the 4 170's. They start out doing a share of the peak services, but then settle in to do most of the daytime off-peak. One of them squeezes in a shoulder-peak service to Horsforth morning and evening. The other peak services can be a mix of 2,3 or 4-car services. And short-forming that never gets mentioned on JourneyCheck.
The latest bulletin reckoned on 158's, though that is quite old. Is the above more recent information?
I've seen the station statistics on the website, and wonder whether Burley and Headingly keep their 3rd and 4th places of you consider volumes at peak times? Headingley doesn't look as busy as Hornbeam in the peak, but I can imagine it gets more off-peak use.
Ooh that's gonna hurt. Just when I'd found a train I could get my legs into.
But thinking about it, there seems to be very few places where the 170 gets to change gear in the Leeds-Harrogate section.
175001
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Plan is for 170s on the Leeds to Southports too from December. But no sign of any traction training commencing on the West anytime soon
May not go over to 170 operation in December
Further confirmation that Northern passengers in Cumbria may have little to look forward to in December (unless you count the hope that much of the May timetable may be working by then)
I expect that the news today that there will not be timetable changes in December, also means that the Sheffield to Worksop/Retford stoppers and speeding up of trains from Sheffield to Lincoln, will now not happen until at least next May. This should have happened in May this year but was postponed.
Yet another year without improved connections at Worksop for passengers travelling form the Mansfield area to and from Sheffield and beyond.
Yet another year without improved connections at Worksop for passengers travelling form the Mansfield area to and from Sheffield and beyond.
northernchris
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Hopefully it won't stop the more minor changes being introduced which often happen
absolutelymilk
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Can we rename this thread to "Next Northern timetable changes"? Alternatively I can create a new December 2018 changes thread.
Agent_Squash
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The December 2018 timetable change has been cancelled on Northern.
absolutelymilk
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Yes, so how about "lack of Northern timetable changes in December 2018" ?
Agent_Squash
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You could have ‘lack of XXXXX timetable changes in December 2018’ for over 10 TOCs.
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