TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

Erniescooper · 19 Sep 2018

It's on a small plate half way down, DT is 12 , the intermediate coaches are 10.5 and the T1 is 16

RailUK Forums

Kieran1990 · 19 Sep 2018

How far off are we from seeing the Mk5 + 68’s being tested over the North TPE route?

Erniescooper · 19 Sep 2018

Kieran1990 said:
How far off are we from seeing the Mk5 + 68’s being tested over the North TPE route?

I've only seen the plan for the next couple of weeks and there is nothing yet

E_Reeves · 20 Sep 2018

Has WCML testing to Bletchley stopped now? I haven't seen one actually run on RTT for a few days now

The_Train · 20 Sep 2018

E_Reeves said:
Has WCML testing to Bletchley stopped now? I haven't seen one actually run on RTT for a few days now

I've been checking RTT the last few days and the run is always activated before being cancelled. As an example today's Bletchley to Manchester run is still showing as activated and live
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K10247/2018/09/20/advanced

But obviously the outward journey was cancelled again (by the customer according to RTT) so at some point soon this will change to cancelled.

Not sure how much night testing has been happening nor anything that may head north from Manchester but surely they are pushing time now to have these ready for passenger services in December?

BMIFlyer · 20 Sep 2018

The_Train said:
I've been checking RTT the last few days and the run is always activated before being cancelled. As an example today's Bletchley to Manchester run is still showing as activated and live
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K10247/2018/09/20/advanced

But obviously the outward journey was cancelled again (by the customer according to RTT) so at some point soon this will change to cancelled.

Not sure how much night testing has been happening nor anything that may head north from Manchester but surely they are pushing time now to have these ready for passenger services in December?

There was a Mk5A set at Carlisle on test earlier this morning.

Crew training for on board staff starting very soon, so I don't think there will be any delay. Currently the plan is to have 2 trains in service from December on the Liverpool to Scarborough route (6 trains each way per day).

The_Train · 20 Sep 2018

BMIFlyer said:
There was a Mk5A set at Carlisle on test earlier this morning.

Crew training for on board staff starting very soon, so I don't think there will be any delay. Currently the plan is to have 2 trains in service from December on the Liverpool to Scarborough route (6 trains each way per day).

That certainly points towards things being on schedule for the December start, which is good news.

I assume that as only a certain amount of sets are being used for testing right now they are activating all test routes and then ultimately just choosing one of them?

Just out of interest what sort of mileage are the units expected to complete during testing?

mikemcniven · 20 Sep 2018

A new set was out today on the Carlisle return run, TP04 (Driver Trailer 12804) along with 68025 "Supurb" which I caught up with on it's return at Deansgate running some 50 minutes Early!

Transpennine Express 12804 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

Transpennine Express 68025 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

_toommm_ · 20 Sep 2018

mikemcniven said:
A new set was out today on the Carlisle return run, TP04 (Driver Trailer 12804) along with 68025 "Supurb" which I caught up with on it's return at Deansgate running some 50 minutes Early!

Transpennine Express 12804 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

Transpennine Express 68025 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

Got to say, you're very good at timing these runs and getting excellent photos of the sets.
Although the DBSO does look silly with the buffers and couplers. Looks like someone dropped a train ontop of a freight wagon

Bletchleyite · 20 Sep 2018

I dunno, to me it makes it look very European.

mikemcniven · 20 Sep 2018

_toommm_ said:
Got to say, you're very good at timing these runs and getting excellent photos of the sets.
Although the DBSO does look silly with the buffers and couplers. Looks like someone dropped a train ontop of a freight wagon

It's just a case of keeping an eye on RailCam maps and data for it showing s activated and running. I mean today I made sure I was in Manchester early as it skipped it's scheduled stops along the way at Lancaster so knew it would be early.

For reference it's a Driver Trailer Standard or DTS not a DBSO.

Ben Bow · 20 Sep 2018

The key to the Mk.5+68 sets entering passenger service in December is completing enough mileage and testing so that at least one set can be accepted by TPE.

Although TPE drivers at Piccadilly are currently undergoing training on 68s, this is limited to classroom work and driving light engine.

In order to pass out as fully competent and able to drive the sets in passenger service, the drivers who are trained before there are Mk.5s available to TPE, will need further handling training with coaches. This will take around 5-7 days per driver.

It is hoped/expected that this second round of training can commence in mid-late October, but even if this deadline is met, getting enough drivers passed out to operate the diagrams mentioned above will be a challenge.

If this deadline is not met, don't expect to see them in service from 9 December.

AndrewE · 20 Sep 2018

_toommm_ said:
Although the DBSO does look silly with the buffers and couplers. Looks like someone dropped a train ontop of a freight wagon

The buffers aren't a problem, it's all the other ugly gubbins. After all the HSTs with buffers are OK. Let's hope there is a bonnet or coverplate of some sort to hide its innards. I imagine that almost none of that stuff will get used much, apart from the horns.

BeHereNow · 20 Sep 2018

Ben Bow said:
The key to the Mk.5+68 sets entering passenger service in December is completing enough mileage and testing so that at least one set can be accepted by TPE.

Although TPE drivers at Piccadilly are currently undergoing training on 68s, this is limited to classroom work and driving light engine.

In order to pass out as fully competent and able to drive the sets in passenger service, the drivers who are trained before there are Mk.5s available to TPE, will need further handling training with coaches. This will take around 5-7 days per driver.

It is hoped/expected that this second round of training can commence in mid-late October, but even if this deadline is met, getting enough drivers passed out to operate the diagrams mentioned above will be a challenge.

If this deadline is not met, don't expect to see them in service from 9 December.

That seems like quite a lot of training to get through in a short time. Particularity considering MkV training hasn't started yet.

Bornin1980s · 20 Sep 2018

_toommm_ said:
Got to say, you're very good at timing these runs and getting excellent photos of the sets.
Although the DBSO does look silly with the buffers and couplers. Looks like someone dropped a train ontop of a freight wagon

I think it looks more like an insect.

SP Man · 20 Sep 2018

68028 Lord President and 68019 Brutus on a light engine run from Crewe (dep about 0920) to MID via Chat Moss. 68024 coming back light engine.

matt · 21 Sep 2018

Test run appears to have only got as far as Stafford this morning

sprinterguy · 21 Sep 2018

matt said:
Test run appears to have only got as far as Stafford this morning

Yep, 68025 out again (Still with set TP04 as far as I can tell), just passed it at Stafford where it's been sat since 07:18:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K10246/2018/09/21/advanced

Bornin1980s said:
I think it looks more like an insect.

It's only when I was watching this on the telly the other night that I realised what they reminded me of (It's the slanty "eyes" and high "forehead" on the driving trailers that really completes the effect):

mikemcniven · 21 Sep 2018

Todays run has terminated at Stafford and now running back way earlier then scheduled on a VSTP 3Z01 back to Longsight but returning via Heald Green, meaning the 68 will be at the opposite end to how it's typically been recently.

EE Andy b1 · 21 Sep 2018

mikemcniven said:
Todays run has terminated at Stafford and now running back way earlier then scheduled on a VSTP 3Z01 back to Longsight but returning via Heald Green, meaning the 68 will be at the opposite end to how it's typically been recently.

Do we know if this was weather orientated or a problem with the set? Or any other reason!

sprinterguy · 21 Sep 2018

EE Andy b1 said:
Do we know if this was weather orientated or a problem with the set? Or any other reason!

Shown as a train fault on TRUST - I don't know any specifics, unfortunately.

Tynwald · 21 Sep 2018

Watched it pass through Crewe earlier. Noticed it had wheel flats.

AndrewE · 21 Sep 2018

Tynwald said:
Watched it pass through Crewe earlier. Noticed it had wheel flats.

Oh dear! How did they do that?
Are we looking at driver/guard training moves or mileage accumulation? If the former, should the instructor have been able to prevent it? If the latter, would we expect the driver to be aware of the rake's braking characteristics? I can't believe it's "just" a handbrake having been left on...

b2311e · 21 Sep 2018

Somebody has posted a video of the train on Twitter
https://twitter.com/mr_w_snapper/status/1043071413899485184

Certainly sounds like wheel flats near the 68 end

_toommm_ · 21 Sep 2018

b2311e said:
Somebody has posted a video of the train on Twitter
https://twitter.com/mr_w_snapper/status/1043071413899485184

Certainly sounds like wheel flats near the 68 end

Really quite bad wheel flats - although the sound of the 68 makes up for it!

Skie · 21 Sep 2018

Went past Crewe on Thursday and there were 5 or 6 of the 68's all sitting coupled together. Was mid-conversation so didn't really get a great look.

ic31420 · 22 Sep 2018

I suppose now is the time you'd expect flats to happen. Crews inexperienced in preparing / handling / characteristics of the locos and stock, leaf fall season and all.

driver9000 · 22 Sep 2018

AndrewE said:
Oh dear! How did they do that?
Are we looking at driver/guard training moves or mileage accumulation? If the former, should the instructor have been able to prevent it? If the latter, would we expect the driver to be aware of the rake's braking characteristics? I can't believe it's "just" a handbrake having been left on...

We're entering leaf fall season and it has arrived a little early this year. Even with modern WSP equipment flats are unavoidable at this time of year even on a train fresh out of the box. The Drivers are Freightliner crews so all experienced in handling locomotive hauled trains.

EE Andy b1 · 22 Sep 2018

driver9000 said:
We're entering leaf fall season and it has arrived a little early this year. Even with modern WSP equipment flats are unavoidable at this time of year even on a train fresh out of the box. The Drivers are Freightliner crews so all experienced in handling locomotive hauled trains.

Yep totally agree!
To me sounds like it could have been a WSP (Wheel Slip Protection) fault on that vehicle or axle or other brake related problem. The train had a fault and was terminated at Stafford and was there for a couple of hours before returning direct to Longsight.

This is what testing is all about, to iron out any problems before entering service.

Chrisyd · 22 Sep 2018

Would the wheel flats not be caused by the brake testing that was reported above?

TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

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