Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

507021 · 10 Dec 2018

jcollins said:
Then there's what happened under the last franchise with the TPE 170s going and Northern 156s being used as replacements and Northern losing 156s to EMT, even though they did get 150s in lieu and again they lost the 3 x 180s even though they got 6 x 150s in lieu.

Am I right in thinking they were 156470/473 and 156497/498?

RailUK Forums

sprinterguy · 10 Dec 2018

507021 said:
Am I right in thinking they were 156470/473 and 156497/498?

Yep, those were the ones.

507021 · 10 Dec 2018

sprinterguy said:
Yep, those were the ones.

Thanks.

Jonny · 11 Dec 2018

More to the point, what will happen to Newcastle platform 8, given that a single (two car) class 142 barely fits within the block, when the Pacers are withdrawn?

GrahamD83 · 11 Dec 2018

Jonny said:
More to the point, what will happen to Newcastle platform 8, given that a single (two car) class 142 barely fits within the block, when the Pacers are withdrawn?

I don't think they use platform 8 very often, I have never seen it in use, other than to park a 142 out of service.

simon7929 · 12 Dec 2018

Platform 7 is a decent length and capable of taking a four car unit with ease. Moving the points further back towards the East would equal out the lengths of both platforms 7 and 8. But the cost involved would be the issue. The gantry signal on platform 8 and the signal to head West on platform 7 would also need to relocate.

Jamesrob637 · 12 Dec 2018

There are 158s, 170s and 156s galore coming south from bonny Scotland. Can any of these arrivals plus the subsequent cascades press the withdrawal of the first Pacers maybe after the festive period?

John Taylor · 12 Dec 2018

Where will withdrawn Class 142s go?

DanNCL · 12 Dec 2018

John Taylor said:
Where will withdrawn Class 142s go?

Almost certainly scrap.

Jamesrob637 · 12 Dec 2018

DanNCL said:
Almost certainly scrap.

I hope a couple will make their way into preservation, but yes scrap is realistic for the majority of the fleet.

Cardiff123 · 12 Dec 2018

Jamesrob637 said:
There are 158s, 170s and 156s galore coming south from bonny Scotland. Can any of these arrivals plus the subsequent cascades press the withdrawal of the first Pacers maybe after the festive period?

Let's hope so because TfW wants them in Wales

Eccles1983 · 12 Dec 2018

Not sure your enthusiasm to see them scrapped is realistic.

Ones gone to Wolverton after being in a collision with a tractor. If they were being scrapped soon then surely they would of stripped this instead of sending it for repair.

mde · 12 Dec 2018

Jamesrob637 said:
There are 158s, 170s and 156s galore coming south from bonny Scotland. Can any of these arrivals plus the subsequent cascades press the withdrawal of the first Pacers maybe after the festive period?

I doubt Northern will put those 156s into service unless they absolutely have to - they are extremely tatty and in need of extensive refurbishment. It'd make more sense for them to be sent for refurb / PRM works and then brought into service.

Iskra · 12 Dec 2018

mde said:
I doubt Northern will put those 156s into service unless they absolutely have to - they are extremely tatty and in need of extensive refurbishment. It'd make more sense for them to be sent for refurb / PRM works and then brought into service.

You don't travel with Northern often do you? Much of the fleet is extremely tatty and in need of extensive refurbishment.

Someone counted 16 short-formed diagrams yesterday on Northern. So I think it's fair to say they are pretty desperate.

mde · 12 Dec 2018

Iskra said:
You don't travel with Northern often do you? Much of the fleet is extremely tatty and in need of extensive refurbishment

This is perhaps true - but - the ex WHL units that are transferring are in a worse state than some of the Pacers. The 158s and 170s, by comparison, are in much better condition.

simon7929 · 12 Dec 2018

When it comes to presentation. Northern's fleet of units are a long way off acceptable They are really that bad. The unrefurbished 156s from Scotland will be an upgrade to the present fleet.

Chester1 · 13 Dec 2018

Jamesrob637 said:
There are 158s, 170s and 156s galore coming south from bonny Scotland. Can any of these arrivals plus the subsequent cascades press the withdrawal of the first Pacers maybe after the festive period?

Prior to the entry into service of 195s and 769s and completion of electrification, cascaded stock will be needed to reduce short forming. There are rumours that some or all 13 x 2 car 144s will go to the Valleys Lines in the spring until the end of 2019 to provide some desperately needed cover for PRM mods. Once the wires are switched on some diagrams can be switched to EMUs but some cannot be and the maximum benefit of electrification won't happen until May. I doubt huge numbers of 195s or 769s will be in service early next year either.

Eccles1983 said:
Not sure your enthusiasm to see them scrapped is realistic.

Ones gone to Wolverton after being in a collision with a tractor. If they were being scrapped soon then surely they would of stripped this instead of sending it for repair.

How bad was the damage? Its odd that they don't want to strip 1 out of the 79 (?) 142s for parts with a year to go.

Jonny · 13 Dec 2018

Eccles1983 said:
Not sure your enthusiasm to see them scrapped is realistic.

Ones gone to Wolverton after being in a collision with a tractor. If they were being scrapped soon then surely they would of stripped this instead of sending it for repair.

Chester1 said:
How bad was the damage? Its odd that they don't want to strip 1 out of the 79 (?) 142s for parts with a year to go.

Depends on how quick/easy it is to fix and how easy it will be to recover the cost from the tractor (mis-)user.

Starmill · 13 Dec 2018

mde said:
they are extremely tatty and in need of extensive refurbishment.

What does that have to do with anything? The same could be said of the majority of the 'home' fleet.

mde · 13 Dec 2018

Starmill said:
What does that have to do with anything? The same could be said of the majority of the 'home' fleet.

The part I omitted is that they also need PRM works; so, given they would need to be withdrawn by 31/12/19 for said works, it would make more sense to retain what's currently working the route, do the work, then put it into service. The other units don't need quite as much work from that respect.

Anvil1984 · 13 Dec 2018

mde said:
The part I omitted is that they also need PRM works; so, given they would need to be withdrawn by 31/12/19 for said works, it would make more sense to retain what's currently working the route, do the work, then put it into service. The other units don't need quite as much work from that respect.

The Ex Scotrail 156s will be used on work probably after Heaton have done the various exams on the units after they’ve arrived. A non PRM 156 is better than a 142 for many reasons. A number of the Allerton 156s have still yet to have PRM work neither and releasing 1 unit at a time is better than keeping them all out of service

xotGD · 13 Dec 2018

The north east is doing rather nicely out of the unit reshuffle - lose the 142s so that the 'worst' train is a 156. Meanwhile in Yorkshire we'll still be enduring 150s with 3 + 2 seating.

simon7929 · 13 Dec 2018

The path is in today for the 156s to get to Heaton. Leaving Mossend about 1619. Hopefully no fires this time!

Brian Aylott · 13 Dec 2018

Anvil1984 said:
The Ex Scotrail 156s will be used on work probably after Heaton have done the various exams on the units after they’ve arrived. A non PRM 156 is better than a 142 for many reasons. A number of the Allerton 156s have still yet to have PRM work neither and releasing 1 unit at a time is better than keeping them all out of service

No AN 156s are 'yet to have PRM mods' because they haven't got any!
Brian

simon7929 · 13 Dec 2018

Split between HT and NH since May. 156 438/43/4/8/51/54/63/69/71/2/5/9-84/6/7/90 and 91. Newton Heath have the other 21 156s.

The five from Scotrail will be based at Heaton.

AMD · 13 Dec 2018

mde said:
I doubt Northern will put those 156s into service unless they absolutely have to - they are extremely tatty and in need of extensive refurbishment. It'd make more sense for them to be sent for refurb / PRM works and then brought into service.

Well they are.... of the 5x 156s transferring, one will be going for refurb before moving south while the other four are going to Heaton for exams prior to going into service; with refurbs being slotted into the existing programme.

Mogster · 13 Dec 2018

I much rather travel on a 156 than the 150s and 142s that we usually get between Wigan and Manchester.

The 156s are quite decent units imo. I can see the end doors don’t exactly lead to short dwell times though.

pemma · 13 Dec 2018

John Taylor said:
Where will withdrawn Class 142s go?

Worth noting the West Yorkshire 141s which got sold to Iran following electrification work around the turn of the millennium were withdrawn a few years back. If the 141s weren't good enough for Iran a few years ago I doubt they'll be any interest for 142s next year, even from developing countries.

matacaster · 13 Dec 2018

jcollins said:
Worth noting the West Yorkshire 141s which got sold to Iran following electrification work around the turn of the millennium were withdrawn a few years back. If the 141s weren't good enough for Iran a few years ago I doubt they'll be any interest for 142s next year, even from developing countries.

...or even undeveloped countries.

John B · 13 Dec 2018

Like Wales?

Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

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