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TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

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Teflon Lettuce

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It also appears, that yet again, unpublished changes may have crept into the TrawsCymru network!
Whilst I understand timetabling is a bit of an art form and a juggling act, trying to make limited resources serve the most amount of people, the total lack of reliable information and changes that happen without any prior warning is somewhat bewildering. The TrawsCymru website still doesn't acknowledge the T12.
Changes to the T12 from 05/11/18 - https://www.traveline.cymru/disruptions/1060/

Strange how when the Lewis's went bankrupt the 701 was allowed to die because it didn't fit into the TrawsCymru ethos... yet here is the T12 operating twice a day and set up for a one way traffic flow.... exactly as the 701 was.... so according to the WG a direct one way link for mid Wales to the nations capital isn't part of the Traws ethos... but a direct one way link across to Wrexham is!
 
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Smethwickian

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... here is the T12 operating twice a day and set up for a one way traffic flow....
Other journeys between Machynlleth, Oswestry and Wrexham on the T12 are still operated by Tanat Valley Coaches - the link to a revised timetable in post 1648 refers only to changes affectng Lloyds' journeys. Although of course the utterly useless TrawsCymru website makes it as clear as mud. Mixed with treacle. And put into a non-transparent container. Then buried somewhere.
 
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Teflon Lettuce

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Other journeys between Machynlleth, Oswestry and Wrexham on the T12 are still operated by Tanat Valley Coaches - the link to a revised timetable in post 1648 refers only to changes affectng Lloyds' journeys. Although of course the utterly useless TrawsCymru website makes it as clear as mud. Mixed with treacle. And put into a non-transparent container. Then buried somewhere.
lol just about right for traveline... announce a revised service and then only put half the timetable up... of course anyone thinking "how do I get from Wrexham to Machynlleth" will click on that link and think "I can't"!
 

johntrawscymru

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Strange how when the Lewis's went bankrupt the 701 was allowed to die because it didn't fit into the TrawsCymru ethos... yet here is the T12 operating twice a day and set up for a one way traffic flow.... exactly as the 701 was.... so according to the WG a direct one way link for mid Wales to the nations capital isn't part of the Traws ethos... but a direct one way link across to Wrexham is!
You have hit the nail on the head. Mid Wales is the forgotten region. No connectivity of Trawscymru services through Aberystwyth / No Quality Partnership Agreements in place to help connections and the North/South route broken beyond repair. As you point out one way traffic for the T12 and T1C to Wrexham and Cardiff.
In the eyes of the WG Wrexham should be a capital city hence the T12 operating twice a day and the 600 million pound metro scheme. See the following :-

02 March 2017 600 million spend on North East Wales Metro around Wrexham (https://gov.wales/newsroom/transpor...t-plans-for-a-north-east-wales-metro/?lang=en)
28 Dec 2017 Wrexham is capital of North Wales ( https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/1...s-time-to-unite-around-it-says-am-ken-skates/ )
6 Oct 2018 - Wrexham should have City status (https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/1...s-call-for-wrexham-to-be-granted-city-status/)
 

Bwsbro

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You have hit the nail on the head. Mid Wales is the forgotten region. No connectivity of Trawscymru services through Aberystwyth / No Quality Partnership Agreements in place to help connections and the North/South route broken beyond repair. As you point out one way traffic for the T12 and T1C to Wrexham and Cardiff.
In the eyes of the WG Wrexham should be a capital city hence the T12 operating twice a day and the 600 million pound metro scheme.

The 701 and its X40 predecessor operated for the benefit of Mid to South wal

The T12 operates more than twice a day.
The amendments of the T12 as shown in the document on the Traveline Cymru page is because Lloyds hadn't confirmed their amendments in time to the Traffic Commissioner when the new service launched.

Buses on the T12 depart Machynlleth at
06:55 (LC), 07:34 (LC - Sch to Newtown), 08:57 (LC), 10:57 (TV), 12:57 (TV), 15:12 (TV), 16:57 (LC - Newtown with TV Connection to Oswestry)

T12 Departures from Wrexham
09:35 (TV), 11:35 (LC), 13:35 (LC), 15:35 (TV - Netwown with LC Connection to Machynlleth), 16:55 (TV - Welshpool) & 18:45 (TV - Four Crosses)
 

Teflon Lettuce

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The 701 and its X40 predecessor operated for the benefit of Mid to South wal

The T12 operates more than twice a day.
The amendments of the T12 as shown in the document on the Traveline Cymru page is because Lloyds hadn't confirmed their amendments in time to the Traffic Commissioner when the new service launched.

Buses on the T12 depart Machynlleth at
06:55 (LC), 07:34 (LC - Sch to Newtown), 08:57 (LC), 10:57 (TV), 12:57 (TV), 15:12 (TV), 16:57 (LC - Newtown with TV Connection to Oswestry)

T12 Departures from Wrexham
09:35 (TV), 11:35 (LC), 13:35 (LC), 15:35 (TV - Netwown with LC Connection to Machynlleth), 16:55 (TV - Welshpool) & 18:45 (TV - Four Crosses)
The point is though that the Traveline site is very misleading... it has a banner saying amended T12 timetable... but then only shows half the timetable. To the uninitiated looking at travel options it would appear that the service is only provided to make journeys to Wrexham.
 

johntrawscymru

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Welsh Assembly question and answer

WAQ77368 (e) ""Will the Cabinet Secretary state by when the TrawsCymru bus service should be running between Betws-y-Coed and Dolgellau?""

Answered by Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport Answered on 09/11/2018 “”We have no immediate plans to introduce a new TrawsCymru bus service linking Betws–y-Coed and Dolgellau. However, given the recent changes to commercially operated bus services on this corridor, I have asked officials to discuss with the relevant local authorities how the local bus network might be stabilised, and further improved where possible.””


Any Future plans ?

Officials to discuss Local network being stabalised and improved ?

Sounds as though something is being planned by the WG

 

Bwsbro

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LLoyds Coaches have today cancelled the registraitons for the T2 & T3 form the 7th of January and have replaced them with

T2-A - Bangor - Porthmadog
T2-B - Porthmadog - Dolgellau
T2-C - Dolgellau - Aberystywth

T3-A - Barmouth - Dolgellau
T3-B - Dolgellau - Corwen
T3-C - Corwen - Wrexham.

This will allow the two services to operate to UK driving hours instead of taccographed EU Rules
 

carlberry

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Welsh Assembly question and answer

WAQ77368 (e) ""Will the Cabinet Secretary state by when the TrawsCymru bus service should be running between Betws-y-Coed and Dolgellau?""

Answered by Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport Answered on 09/11/2018 “”We have no immediate plans to introduce a new TrawsCymru bus service linking Betws–y-Coed and Dolgellau. However, given the recent changes to commercially operated bus services on this corridor, I have asked officials to discuss with the relevant local authorities how the local bus network might be stabilised, and further improved where possible.””


Any Future plans ?

Officials to discuss Local network being stabalised and improved ?

Sounds as though something is being planned by the WG
Sounds more like they're suggesting the local authority should do something however, as they haven't got any money, they're unlikely to!
 

johntrawscymru

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LLoyds Coaches have today cancelled the registraitons for the T2 & T3 form the 7th of January and have replaced them with

T2-A - Bangor - Porthmadog
T2-B - Porthmadog - Dolgellau
T2-C - Dolgellau - Aberystywth

T3-A - Barmouth - Dolgellau
T3-B - Dolgellau - Corwen
T3-C - Corwen - Wrexham.

This will allow the two services to operate to UK driving hours instead of taccographed EU Rules


Lets hope that something has been done to improve the T3 route and timetable and end the T2 15 minute waits in Dolgellau.
 

Teflon Lettuce

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LLoyds Coaches have today cancelled the registraitons for the T2 & T3 form the 7th of January and have replaced them with

T2-A - Bangor - Porthmadog
T2-B - Porthmadog - Dolgellau
T2-C - Dolgellau - Aberystywth

T3-A - Barmouth - Dolgellau
T3-B - Dolgellau - Corwen
T3-C - Corwen - Wrexham.

This will allow the two services to operate to UK driving hours instead of taccographed EU Rules
AFAIK both the T2 and T3 are operated on GB rules using the silly 50km cheat... I think there must have been a new edict from the TC concerning this sort of route, something along the lines of "each section must have a different number" These aren't the first routes recently to have been re-registered so that each section has a different number on the registrations...
 

siriain

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AFAIK both the T2 and T3 are operated on GB rules using the silly 50km cheat... I think there must have been a new edict from the TC concerning this sort of route, something along the lines of "each section must have a different number" These aren't the first routes recently to have been re-registered so that each section has a different number on the registrations...

Ok, fair enough.
Although arguably it may be a paranoid edict to comply with an official pragmatic avoidance of an imposed silly and arbitary rule?
 

Teflon Lettuce

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Ok, fair enough.
Although arguably it may be a paranoid edict to comply with an official pragmatic avoidance of an imposed silly and arbitary rule?
if you mean from bus co hq I don't think so as it seems to be all operators that are doing this as time goes on.
 

Cambrian359

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So what does this mean for passengers? Do we have to change buses mid journey or?Or is it just a working hours fiddle? Some care to explain please!
 

carlberry

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So what does this mean for passengers? Do we have to change buses mid journey or?Or is it just a working hours fiddle? Some care to explain please!
Until the timetables are published nobody can tell however it's unlikely that anything to mean changing buses.
 

johntrawscymru

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Trying to examine historical timetable changes via the Traffic Commissioner’s Registrations.

Just had a salutary experience trying to examine historical timetable changes to some Trawscymru services. Knowing the Registration references and variation numbers I was interested in, I used the email address given on the website for the Leeds TC office to ask whether they were available.to examine. I had a reply back from the Swansea office saying yes they were at the Leeds office and I could order a copy of each timetable for £3 or I could go to the Leeds office and examine them there. Since I was interested in more than 30 Var nos (cost around £100) I decided to visit the Leeds Office whilst en route from Wales to Hull.

I went to the Leeds office with a computer to write some notes and was told I could view the timetables and memorise them but I was not allowed to record any information from them. The reason given for this was “”due to the Data Protection Act “” although the lady imparting this information was embarrassed that I could order a copy of the timetables for £3 each.. I was more than happy to examine the timetables but was not happy to spend around £100 on the copies. I ended up looking at 2 timetables with the lady stood next to me to make sure I did not record any information.

This seems a little strange to me as the FOI Act states that where recorded information is held by a public authority, the information has to be released on request. Has anyone else experienced the refusal by the Traffic Commissioner Office to allow the public to record information from historical timetables ? .
 

carlberry

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Trying to examine historical timetable changes via the Traffic Commissioner’s Registrations.

Just had a salutary experience trying to examine historical timetable changes to some Trawscymru services. Knowing the Registration references and variation numbers I was interested in, I used the email address given on the website for the Leeds TC office to ask whether they were available.to examine. I had a reply back from the Swansea office saying yes they were at the Leeds office and I could order a copy of each timetable for £3 or I could go to the Leeds office and examine them there. Since I was interested in more than 30 Var nos (cost around £100) I decided to visit the Leeds Office whilst en route from Wales to Hull.

I went to the Leeds office with a computer to write some notes and was told I could view the timetables and memorise them but I was not allowed to record any information from them. The reason given for this was “”due to the Data Protection Act “” although the lady imparting this information was embarrassed that I could order a copy of the timetables for £3 each.. I was more than happy to examine the timetables but was not happy to spend around £100 on the copies. I ended up looking at 2 timetables with the lady stood next to me to make sure I did not record any information.

This seems a little strange to me as the FOI Act states that where recorded information is held by a public authority, the information has to be released on request. Has anyone else experienced the refusal by the Traffic Commissioner Office to allow the public to record information from historical timetables ? .
I suspect it's just a catch all response to try to discourage people. Ultimately most public bodies have people within them that don't like the FOI and they'll try to avoid complying with it if they can. You might have to contact them again to get an official refusal which you could then appeal however I suspect whoever dealt with you was being overzealous and they'll just say you should have been allowed to record the information.
 

K219UHA

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Don't think it has previously been mentioned but Lloyds have started serving Oswestry Bus Station on the T12 from at least late November after not serving this location for a number of months. I have it on good authority it was a error on the registration been the original reason why.
 

Smethwickian

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Why is the T12 not mentioned on trawscymru.info...?
I asked that question of them a month ago. Their reply on 11 December was: "We are currently awaiting the website content in question from the Welsh Government. Once we have received this the information will be added to the website straight away, sorry for the inconvenience." But the email went on to add that the timetable was available on Traveline Cymru, and gave the link. So they (whoever and however many people actually work to promote TrawsCymru) know the service exists, and its timetable, but still refuse to acknowledge it on the TrawsCymru website.
Utterly baffling and quite, quite unhelpful to potential users. This dog's dinner of a promotional and marketing job can hardly be helping passenger numbers.
 

anamyd

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I asked that question of them a month ago. Their reply on 11 December was: "We are currently awaiting the website content in question from the Welsh Government. Once we have received this the information will be added to the website straight away, sorry for the inconvenience." But the email went on to add that the timetable was available on Traveline Cymru, and gave the link. So they (whoever and however many people actually work to promote TrawsCymru) know the service exists, and its timetable, but still refuse to acknowledge it on the TrawsCymru website.
Utterly baffling and quite, quite unhelpful to potential users. This dog's dinner of a promotional and marketing job can hardly be helping passenger numbers.
Thank you for your response.
 

johntrawscymru

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I asked that question of them a month ago. Their reply on 11 December was: "We are currently awaiting the website content in question from the Welsh Government. Once we have received this the information will be added to the website straight away, sorry for the inconvenience." But the email went on to add that the timetable was available on Traveline Cymru, and gave the link. So they (whoever and however many people actually work to promote TrawsCymru) know the service exists, and its timetable, but still refuse to acknowledge it on the TrawsCymru website.
Utterly baffling and quite, quite unhelpful to potential users. This dog's dinner of a promotional and marketing job can hardly be helping passenger numbers.

Perhaps the Welsh Government do not intend to keep the T12 which has a journey time of 3 h 40 mins when Machynleth to Wrexham is 1 hr 28 by car. It does not appear to be a strategic, long distance service. More of a collection of slow local services joined together and labelled Trawscymru. Perhaps the T12 will end up in the same bin as the T10 Bangor to Chirk/Oswestry
 

carlberry

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Perhaps the Welsh Government do not intend to keep the T12 which has a journey time of 3 h 40 mins when Machynleth to Wrexham is 1 hr 28 by car. It does not appear to be a strategic, long distance service. More of a collection of slow local services joined together and labelled Trawscymru. Perhaps the T12 will end up in the same bin as the T10 Bangor to Chirk/Oswestry
The T12 dosent go anywhere near Cardiff airport (or any WAG offices) so isn't a core Traws service!
 

quarella

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Taking advantage of the free weekend travel I decided to take the T14 Cardiff to Hereford. All 3 hours 35 minutes. There were driver changes at Merthyr bus station and the Brecon depot at Bishops Meadow Campsite to the north of the town. I was the only passenger that went end to end. I think the longest journey anyone else made was Merthyr Tydfil - Hereford. Most of the journey was in the company of approximately 8-12 others however Pontypridd – Merthyr was all seats full and a few standing passengers.

A triple subsidised service sponsored by Welsh Government, concessionary passes and free weekend travel. The vast majority of passengers were on Concessionary passes. I was a bit concerned at Kingstone and some of the other Herefordshire villages when people started paying as I was sure there had not been any mention of an issue going cross border. I had asked for Hereford but my ticket had been issued to Merthyr. The fares section of the Traws Cymru website says across the network but if you go into “Free Weekend Travel Ideas” it states *Free travel on Saturday and Sunday applies to all passengers who board the T14 service in Wales – even when travelling into England. All should retain their ticket, to prove eligibility, for a return journey.

Vehicle was T4 branded Optare which was old enough not to have USB sockets to standard Traws Cymru design. On board screen locked on Brecon Beacons logo. The capacity was 42 seated 37 standing or 39 seated + 1 wheelchair (bilingually of course). I would be fascinated to see 37 people standing. Even being reasonably friendly I think you would struggle to fit in more than 30 with something to hold on to.

The weather was dull and misty so I was surprised at the number of cars around Storey Arms at the foot of Pen y Fan. It was a most enjoyable trip from the city, through the valleys to the Brecon Beacons and onto the villages of Herefordshire. For those concerned about their bladders. I arrived in Cardiff by train so used the loos at Cardiff Ctl. Not sure if the public convenience outside the station is still there. There is 15 minutes in Merthyr bus station but if I recall correctly the toilets were a casualty of council cuts. 7 minutes at Brecon interchange where there are loos. The service terminates at Hereford Railway station or there is a Morrisons over the road.

My father found the tickets from the mid-nineties when he and caught the 701 Traws Cambria Cardiff to Holyhead. £20.00 single per person. Traws Cymru offers a £10.00 day ticket.
 
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