TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

[johntrawscymru]

Does the t2 have to wait heading north bound in dolgellau for the t3?
My biggest annoyance with he t2 is that it leaves Machynlleth as little as 3 minutes before the train pulls in from Birmingham meaning up to 2 hours wait in Machynlleth for the next bus to Dolgellau.
The t2 is fine going to Mach for the train.

The T2 services have to wait in both North and South directions for the late T3s from Wrexham. The T3 from Barmouth to Wrexham has to wait only if the 2 T2 services from Bangor and Aberystwyth have not arrived .

Not sure which train service or bus service you are referring to regarding the 3 minutes lack of connection in Machynleth with the Birmingham train . If you live in Dolgellau I do feel sorry for you as you are as likely to suffer from this problem as we do South of Aberystwyth.

There may be scope for you to get the T2 departure time in Aberystwyth changed to help you get the connection in Machynleth as there are not many connecting Trawscymru services northbound to the T2 into Aberystwyth . The previous Transport Minister did this in 2016 (the WG officials refused to do it) and changed the 10.00am T2 departure to 10.05 to help connect with the northbound T5 into Aberystwyth. However this was reversed in January 2018 as the WG love clock face timetables, despite the fact that the Road Traffic Commissioner advice not to use clock face; If you do try to get a change don,t rely on just Bus Users Cymru /WG.and also approach bus provider/contracting authority. In the case of T2 Lloyds Coaches and Gwynedd Council. I was recently put in touch with Lloyds owner by a Powys Councillor and have managed to get early morning T2 departure from Dolgellau changed so the service from Dolgellau can connect with the 9.30am T1C from Aberystwyth to Cardiff. .

Regarding train connections I can give you the example of the last T2 journey of the day from Bangor to Aberystwyth which originally connected in Machynleth with effectively the last train from Machynleth to London., connected with the last T1 service of the day from Aberystwyth to Carmarthen, with the T1 connecting with the last train to Cardiff in Carmarthen..

The timings were T2 departed Dolgellau 17.25 reaching Machynleth station circa 17.55 to link with 18.05 train to London. The T2 arrived in Aberystwyth 18.30 to connect with the T1 to Carmarthen which departed at 18.40 to arrive at Carmarthen rail station at 20.37 to catch last train to Cardiff at 20.49.

When the WG introduced the T3 Wrexham to Barmouth the WG decided the 17.25 T2 service departure from Dolgellau had to wait for 20 minutes to connect with the new T3 service from Wrexham .The WG therefore changed the T2 timetable to include a planned stop of 10 minutes and an additional 10 minute delayed departure if the T3 was late which it always was. The timings for the T2 were changed to arrive Dolgellau 17.25 depart Dolgellau 17.35 reaching Machynleth station 18.03 to link with 18.05 train to London. The T2 arrived in Aberystwyth at 18.40 to connect with the T1 to Carmarthen which departed at 18.40. However with the 10 minute delayed departure in force if the T3 from Wrexham arrived late, the timings for the T2 were depart Dolgellau 17.45 reaching Machynleth station circa 18.13 (failing to link with 18.05 train to London). The T2 would then arrive in Aberystwyth 18.50 (failing to connect with the T1 to Carmarthen and therefore failing to connect with the last train to Cardiff). The WG then decided that they would make the T2 arrival/T1 departure at 18.40 in Aberystwyth a non connecting service and they put this in the small print in the timetable .. Fortunately not all drivers complied with the WG directive and connections between the T2/T1 were still intermittently provided.

You are no doubt aware of how much time you need to get from the bus stop by Lloyds garage up the 150 yards of station approach to the train in Machynleth If you are elderly, disabled, carrying lots of luggage or dealing with children then you would end up missing the train as the 2 minutes between 18.03 and18.05 was just not enough

I complained in January 2016 regarding the situation suggesting that the T2/T1 services could connect in Aberystwyth if the T1 departure in Aberystwyth was changed to 18.45 or 18.43 in view of the more than adequate 12 minutes connection time between T1 and train in Carmarthen . The WG refused on the grounds that the connection with the last train to Cardiff would be compromised. This is despite the fact that punctuality on the T1 route is at 97 to 99% (ie the T! is rarely more than 5 minutes late and should arrive at the train station by 20.42 leaving 7 minutes to catch the train and the T1 bus virtually parks on the station platform at Carmarthen rail station. I managed to get the 10 minute delayed departure of T2s in Dolgellau reduced to 5 minutes as 10 minutes was illegal , but had to get the Road Traffic Commissioner to force the issue. I have also pointed out to the WG how ridiculous this situation is that a 15 minute wait by the T2 service in Dolgellau for late T3s from Wrexham can destroy connections with the last train to London, the last T1 from Aberystwyth to Carmarthen and the last train from Carmarthen to Cardiff. The WG reaction was to say there is another train to London from Machynleth 2 hours later . The WG were correct, so if you want to leave Dolgellau at 17.25 to go to London you could catch the T2 ,wait 2 hours on Machynleth station and arrive in London at past 1am in the morning. They also trotted out that although the T2/T1 arrival/departure times in Aberystwyth at 18.40 are the same the 2 services are non- connecting.

The final twist in the tale with the T2/T1 18.40 situation was that in January 2018 the WG changed the T2 arrival time in Aberystwyth for the last service of the day from 18.40 to 18.50. The WG had found out that certain drivers were making the T2/T1 connection in Aberystwyth when the WG had described it as a non-connecting service. The way they added the 10 minutes was to have a timetable planned stop of 5 minutes in Machynleth (16 miles from Aberystwyth) for no reason at all and a 5 minute diversion off the A487 on the edge of Aberystwyth through the village of Comins Coch and an Aberystwyth Housing estate. (the 5 minute diversion off the A487 is a bit of a secret as it is not even recorded on the timetable and to cap it all the WG have said this change was necessary because of additional running time required by the T2 due to a major programme of roadworks between Machynleth and Dolgellau !!!)

Does the t2 have to wait heading north bound in dolgellau for the t3?
My biggest annoyance with he t2 is that it leaves Machynlleth as little as 3 minutes before the train pulls in from Birmingham meaning up to 2 hours wait in Machynlleth for the next bus to Dolgellau.
The t2 is fine going to Mach for the train.

 

[transmanche]

You mean meaningful discussions and exchanges of ideas like yours.

I was trying to be helpful to someone fairly new to the forum. I haven't ranted and have been perfectly polite. Seems that you've decided not to accept that advice in the spirit in which it was intended.

 

[Cambrian359]

I did email/message someone a few years back about this issue but can’t remember who and certainly didn’t get anywhere. Not quite the 3 minute gap I thought it was but close enough,I’ve found the train can often arrive a couple of minutes early but still not early enough to catch the T2

Bear in mind the T2 sits in DOLGELLAU for 10 minutes on each journey so could in theory depart Aberystwyth 10 minutes later giving the connection with the train in Machynlleth

 

[johntrawscymru]

another related question... how much time do you give for the connection between bus and rail? With the Trawscymru services running hrly or 2hrly and the trains they connect into running to similar frequencies... do you schedule connection at 10 mins to provide "seamless" transfer? or do you schedule 30 mins to allow for unforseen problems and also to allow customers to purchase pre-journey snakes?
If using the train, especially for a long journey or if going for a specific time train, prefer to plan to arrive at the stn at LEAST 30 mins before my train is due... whilst obviously others are in too much of a hurry to take a pause for 10-15 mins

I would agree with Winckler that the primary aim should be good connections on the Trawscymru network between the buses Train connections should not override bus connections. That is not to say that you should ignore train connections.
Timetabling is a difficult job but the following make it more difficult:
Relying too much on rigid clock face timetables.
Not being consistent in use of Quality Partnerships to delay departure times.
Not reviewing routes

The level of connectivity is a difficult one With the bus to bus you are usually within a few yards of your connection but with bus to train you may have to walk further. I would say the standard 5 minutes connection for bus to bus with a 5 minute Quality Partnership agreement consistently applied to all services and 10 minutes for bus/train
30 minutes is a bit long - you could buy the snakes the night before and get them harnessed up to carry your luggage.
On the topic of trains does anyone know of a website that displays a days departure and arrivals for a given station without having to go on the ticketing sites ??

 

[johntrawscymru]

I did email/message someone a few years back about this issue but can’t remember who and certainly didn’t get anywhere. Not quite the 3 minute gap I thought it was but close enough,I’ve found the train can often arrive a couple of minutes early but still not early enough to catch the T2


View attachment 53547

The T2 service you are trying to connect to is the 10.00am from Aberystwyth which I mentioned to you in my previous email.
.
The previous Transport Minister changed the 10.00am T2 departure to 10.05 in 2016 to help connect with the northbound T5 into Aberystwyth (the WG officials refused to do it) . However this was reversed in January 2018 as the WG love clock face timetables. No other reason than clock-face timetable. Funnily enough I have placed a complaint today with Elin Jones (AM for Ceredigion and Presiding Officer of the Welsh Assembly and Ken Skates - sorry for mentioning the name) to get the departure time put back to 10.05. If this were done the T2 bus would still only arrive at 10.41 so you are still 3 minutes short. I suspect what you said originally about 3 minutes connectivity referred to the period between 2016 and Jan 2018 when the T2 departed at 10.05.
The change to 10.05 is easy to make as the service is going to wait at least 10 minutes (as per the timetable) in Dolgellau for the T3 from Wrexham, and also has the 5 minute delayed departure on top to wait for late T3s (15 minutes in all) . Going any further than 10.05 would be difficult as it would probably mean rejigging all 4 services into Dolgellau. Unfortunately you are a victim of the decision that all T2/T3 services should connect and wait for 15 minutes in Dolgellau. Sorry but you may have to ask the train driver to pedal a bit faster.

 

[johntrawscymru]

The Welsh Government have said that the T2 departure from Dolgellau will be changed from 8.10am to 8.05am to allow the T2 to connect in Aberystwyth with the T1C coach service to Cardiff which departs at 9.30am .

 

[splashoutradio]

Has anyone noticed any changes to the (predominantly unpublished) T12 recently?
Came across this, entirely by chance, hidden away on the TrawsCymru site - https://www.traveline.cymru/disruptions/1037/
As an irregular traveler who doesn't traverse the route all that often, it seems barmy that this service isn't acknowledged on the TrawsCymru website and TravelineCymru has out of date information unless you happen to stumble across an article with several jpg images on it.
Looking into it further, it appears Lloyds Coaches no longer operate the route, removing many travel options, and it's not clear as to which of, or even whether, the 4 sections of the route are available as through journeys or you have to make a connecting bus in (sometimes) one minute!

 

[Smethwickian]

Has anyone noticed any changes to the (predominantly unpublished) T12 recently?
Came across this, entirely by chance, hidden away on the TrawsCymru site - https://www.traveline.cymru/disruptions/1037/
As an irregular traveler who doesn't traverse the route all that often, it seems barmy that this service isn't acknowledged on the TrawsCymru website and TravelineCymru has out of date information unless you happen to stumble across an article with several jpg images on it.
Looking into it further, it appears Lloyds Coaches no longer operate the route, removing many travel options, and it's not clear as to which of, or even whether, the 4 sections of the route are available as through journeys or you have to make a connecting bus in (sometimes) one minute!

What's even more frustrating is that Lloyds' own website (which is a complete mess) offers no update or clarification. The other operator Tanat Valley appears not to have updated anything on its website since 2013. Powys council supposedly co-ordinates the route but only has the original timetable hidden away on its website. None of the new times appears on Traveline and as for the TrawsCymru website.... oh dear oh dear. I think it is fair to say that as far as the T12 is concerned, publicity has been woeful, botched, inadequate and inaccurate from the very start. It does not bode well for the survival of the route which did, after all, replace several existing and no doubt perfectly well-established local routes which many passengers will sorely miss.

 

[Dai Corner]

What's even more frustrating is that Lloyds' own website (which is a complete mess) offers no update or clarification. The other operator Tanat Valley appears not to have updated anything on its website since 2013. Powys council supposedly co-ordinates the route but only has the original timetable hidden away on its website. None of the new times appears on Traveline and as for the TrawsCymru website.... oh dear oh dear. I think it is fair to say that as far as the T12 is concerned, publicity has been woeful, botched, inadequate and inaccurate from the very start. It does not bode well for the survival of the route which did, after all, replace several existing and no doubt perfectly well-established local routes which many passengers will sorely miss.

If this is the future of Welsh Government-sponsored bus services I'd rather they left it to the private operators.

 

[carlberry]

What's even more frustrating is that Lloyds' own website (which is a complete mess) offers no update or clarification. The other operator Tanat Valley appears not to have updated anything on its website since 2013. Powys council supposedly co-ordinates the route but only has the original timetable hidden away on its website. None of the new times appears on Traveline and as for the TrawsCymru website.... oh dear oh dear. I think it is fair to say that as far as the T12 is concerned, publicity has been woeful, botched, inadequate and inaccurate from the very start. It does not bode well for the survival of the route which did, after all, replace several existing and no doubt perfectly well-established local routes which many passengers will sorely miss.

I did email TrawsCymru, Traveline Wales and the Welsh Government about the delay in getting the original times on the Internet (Once they'd actually been published). Only two of them bothered to reply and the reply from the Welsh Government basically said that it's now correct which, as I'd told them that, meant they completely ignored the point of the email!

 

[johntrawscymru]

Has anyone noticed any changes to the (predominantly unpublished) T12 recently?
Came across this, entirely by chance, hidden away on the TrawsCymru site - https://www.traveline.cymru/disruptions/1037/
As an irregular traveler who doesn't traverse the route all that often, it seems barmy that this service isn't acknowledged on the TrawsCymru website and TravelineCymru has out of date information unless you happen to stumble across an article with several jpg images on it.
Looking into it further, it appears Lloyds Coaches no longer operate the route, removing many travel options, and it's not clear as to which of, or even whether, the 4 sections of the route are available as through journeys or you have to make a connecting bus in (sometimes) one minute!

See what you mean Thanks for the info. Looked at the T12 timetable some weeks ago on the Lloyds website and noted there were 5 services Mach to Wrexham. It looked like the T12 was a through service and there was no mention of T12A,T12B,T12C,T12D. The trip to Wrexham from Aberystwyth would be out of the question - would have taken 5.5 hours with a wait in Machynleth against 3.5 hours using the T2/T3 via Dolgellau . The same 5 services are still on the Lloyds website ! On the link you gave there are now only 2 services and the long journey time can be explained as you pointed out that the route appears to be 4 local bus services linked together . Whatever happened to the concept of a long distance network and the Welsh Government Transport Strategy to improve journey times ? The 5.5 hours bus journey time would take 2 hours by car. Has anyone got any ideas why the Oswestry to Wrexham part of the service has been designated T12D and the Wrexham to Oswestry part of the service through South Clwyd has been designated T12 and not T12E ?

 

[Smethwickian]

The Traveline Cymru website now finally has the (strung together properly) T12 timetable applicable since 19 October. Search at https://www.traveline.cymru/timetables/ or see attachment.

 

[Welshman]

The Traveline Cymru website now finally has the (strung together properly) T12 timetable applicable since 19 October. Search at https://www.traveline.cymru/timetables/ or see attachment.

I see the Traveline Cymru website has now reinstated the two "short" journeys to/from Oswestry by Lloyds Coaches, but has them turning-short at the "Park Gates" rather then daring to venture all the way to the Bus Station! Curious and curiouser!

Perhaps the other occupants of the Bus station bit or kicked Wyn Lloyds'

 

[johntrawscymru]

Looking at Welsh Assembly minutes yesterday and appears as though more diversions are being planned up North for the T2 service. It looks as though the North/South route T2/T1 Bangor to Carmarthen route is going to be further eroded and it may take all day to go from Bangor to Carmarthen.

Welsh Assembly Proceedings 24/10/2018

Questions to Ken Skates (Cabinet Minister for Transport)
Question from Helen Mary Jones AM for Mid and West Wales “” what discussions has he and his officials have had with Gwynedd and Conwy councils about the possibility of including the Blaenau Ffestiniog area in the route of the TrawsCymru T2 service,””

Reply from Ken Skates “”I'm afraid I will have to write to the Member with details of what discussions have taken place specifically with regard to the T2 service. I am pleased to say that we are utterly committed to improving and extending the TrawsCymru services across Wales.””

 

[carlberry]

See what you mean Thanks for the info. Looked at the T12 timetable some weeks ago on the Lloyds website and noted there were 5 services Mach to Wrexham. It looked like the T12 was a through service and there was no mention of T12A,T12B,T12C,T12D. The trip to Wrexham from Aberystwyth would be out of the question - would have taken 5.5 hours with a wait in Machynleth against 3.5 hours using the T2/T3 via Dolgellau . The same 5 services are still on the Lloyds website ! On the link you gave there are now only 2 services and the long journey time can be explained as you pointed out that the route appears to be 4 local bus services linked together . Whatever happened to the concept of a long distance network and the Welsh Government Transport Strategy to improve journey times ? The 5.5 hours bus journey time would take 2 hours by car. Has anyone got any ideas why the Oswestry to Wrexham part of the service has been designated T12D and the Wrexham to Oswestry part of the service through South Clwyd has been designated T12 and not T12E ?

The different letters are just the way it's been licensed so that it can be run without tachograph fitted vehicles (and all the other rules that involves). They are never going to be shown on the vehicles and shouldn't appear on the timetables, however somebody has clearly taken whatever they can get hold of and published it in a desperate attempt to get around the welsh government's attempts to stop people finding out when the service runs! It wont be long before somebody has to use parliamentary privilege to announce changes to Traws timetables!

 

[transmanche]

I see the Traveline Cymru website has now reinstated the two "short" journeys to/from Oswestry by Lloyds Coaches, but has them turning-short at the "Park Gates" rather then daring to venture all the way to the Bus Station! Curious and curiouser!

On a related note: I find it rather odd that on the Oswestry-Wrexham section, although the T12 serves the Robert Jones and Agnes Hunt Orthopaedic Hospital it doesn't serve Gobowen station.

I thought that Gobowen would be the natural railhead for T12 passengers travelling to/from the Welshpool area. And that if the bus is routed via the hospital, it might as well serve the station too.

 

[johntrawscymru]

Aberystwyth to Swansea using T1C/T1S.
On Friday 2nd November I took a trip from Aberystwyth to Swansea using T1C/T1S.
The departure time for T1S in Carmarthen has been changed to 11.10 instead of 11.05 to improve connection with the T1C arrival in Carmarthen from Aberystwyth at 11.02. The connection is now 8 minutes insread of 3 minutes. No printed timetables were available and I have since found out that this change was made on 3rd September. There has been no publicity as far as I am aware of the change and you would have expected some coverage on the T1/T1C services. The electronic information screens remain fixed on the Trawscymru Logo on all Trawscymru buses. The information on the complaints procedure (Bus Users Cymru) has also been removed on Trawscymru buses . It would appear that the money spent on these electronic screens was wasted and the WG do not wish to communicate with the public regarding changes to Trawscymru services.
Still the same ridiculous wait in Carmarthen on the return journey. Took the X11 coming back from Swansea to Carmarthen arriving 18.37. The T1C arrived in Carmarthen from Cardiff at 18.38 (10 minutes early) . Got onto the T1C and then waited for 27 minutes before the T1C departed for Aberystwyth . The T1S from Swansea arrived in Carmarthen at 18.53 (5 minutes late). The T1S departed Carmarthen at 18.54. The T1 arrived in Carmarthen from Aberystwyth at 18.55. (2 minutes early) having departed Aberystwyth at 16.40.. The T1C departed Carmarthen to Aberystwyth at 19.05 (on time) . The T1 from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth remained empty of passengers and driverless in Carmarthen bus station.
Most passengers got off the T1C to stretch legs and mutter regarding the long stop. Surely the connection could be handled better for example a T1C departure time of 18.50 and a 5 minute delayed departure to wait for the T1 from Aberystwyth. But why are the WG not checking how many passengers are getting off the T1 from Aberystwyth to board the T1C to Aberystwyth.- in my experience no passengers transfer from T1 to T1C and there is no demand for that connection. The T1C should only be waiting for the T1S and not the T1. Also where is the logic when the T1 having departed Aberystwyth at 16.40 arrives in Carmarthen at 18.57 and the T1S has already departed 2 minutes earlier at 18.55 (albeit only to Cross Hands /.Tycroes First Cymru bus depot and not all the way to Swansea ) with no connection between the 2 services. The logical approach would be for the last T1S of the day to wait for the T1 from Aberystwyth in Carmarthen and the T1S then run the whole route through to Swansea allowing passengers to travel at the end of the day from Aberystwyth to Swansea . The Tycroes First Cymru bus depot is not that far from Swansea anyway. The way the WG have designed the T1C and T1S services is on the basis that passengers from West Wales wish to go to Cardiff and Swansea and return on the same day but no passengers wish to do the reverse ie go from Cardiff and Swansea to West Wales. A large proportion of the travelling public in South Wales are therefore being denied the option to use the T1C/T1S route despite the fact that the bus operators for the 2 services are located in South Wales (First Cymru at Tycroes for T1S and New Adventure Travel.based in Cardiff for the T1C). Despite the T1S departure change the route is still designed to fail and illustrates the Welsh Government lack of commitment to improve bus transport to and through West Wales.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Still the same ridiculous wait in Carmarthen on the return journey. Took the X11 coming back from Swansea to Carmarthen arriving 18.37. The T1C arrived in Carmarthen from Cardiff at 18.38 (10 minutes early) . Got onto the T1C and then waited for 27 minutes before the T1C departed for Aberystwyth . The T1S from Swansea arrived in Carmarthen at 18.53 (5 minutes late). The T1S departed Carmarthen at 18.54. The T1 arrived in Carmarthen from Aberystwyth at 18.55. (2 minutes early) having departed Aberystwyth at 16.40.. The T1C departed Carmarthen to Aberystwyth at 19.05 (on time) . The T1 from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth remained empty of passengers and driverless in Carmarthen bus station.
Most passengers got off the T1C to stretch legs and mutter regarding the long stop. Surely the connection could be handled better for example a T1C departure time of 18.50 and a 5 minute delayed departure to wait for the T1 from Aberystwyth. But why are the WG not checking how many passengers are getting off the T1 from Aberystwyth to board the T1C to Aberystwyth.- in my experience no passengers transfer from T1 to T1C and there is no demand for that connection. The T1C should only be waiting for the T1S and not the T1.

Let me try to explain the reasoning behind the evening interchange at Carmarthen. The T1C connects at Carmarthen with the T1S from Swansea and the T1 to Lampeter and Aberystwyth. The reason why the T1C can't leave Carmarthen until 1905 is that the connection with the T1 is an advertised connection... now ok so the T1 comes in at 1857 but it is not due out until 1905 and those 8 minutes are for the driver to do what he wants with {in this case IIRC there is also a crew change at this time on the T1} therefore the T1C cannot leave until the T1 is loading. So why, I hear you ask, doesn't the T1C arrive 15 mins later to cut the waiting time? Quite simply leaving Cardiff at 1645 gives a predictable, if a little congested, journey time.. if the T1C left Cardiff at 1700 it would be running slap bang in the middle of the rush hr with the consequent unpredictable journey times... which would totally destroy the reliability of the connection

Also where is the logic when the T1 having departed Aberystwyth at 16.40 arrives in Carmarthen at 18.57 and the T1S has already departed 2 minutes earlier at 18.55 (albeit only to Cross Hands /.Tycroes First Cymru bus depot and not all the way to Swansea ) with no connection between the 2 services. The logical approach would be for the last T1S of the day to wait for the T1 from Aberystwyth in Carmarthen and the T1S then run the whole route through to Swansea allowing passengers to travel at the end of the day from Aberystwyth to Swansea . The Tycroes First Cymru bus depot is not that far from Swansea anyway.

The 1855 T1S to Ty Croes is only a positioning journey registered commercially by First to enable payment of BSOG. It isn't technically part of the contract.

The way the WG have designed the T1C and T1S services is on the basis that passengers from West Wales wish to go to Cardiff and Swansea and return on the same day but no passengers wish to do the reverse ie go from Cardiff and Swansea to West Wales. A large proportion of the travelling public in South Wales are therefore being denied the option to use the T1C/T1S route despite the fact that the bus operators for the 2 services are located in South Wales (First Cymru at Tycroes for T1S and New Adventure Travel.based in Cardiff for the T1C). Despite the T1S departure change the route is still designed to fail and illustrates the Welsh Government lack of commitment to improve bus transport to and through West Wales.

The reason why the T1C only runs "one way" is simple... it is the WG's reluctant replacement for the 701 which only ran "one way" therefore there were no calls for a service running the other way... as it had never been possible... in fact the T1C exists, in large part, due to the efforts of Elin Jones who is a West Wales AM

 

[mikestone1952]

What happened to the T10 Bangor-Oswestry - did Conwy reveive no affordable bids?

 

[johntrawscymru]

Let me try to explain the reasoning behind the evening interchange at Carmarthen. The T1C connects at Carmarthen with the T1S from Swansea and the T1 to Lampeter and Aberystwyth. The reason why the T1C can't leave Carmarthen until 1905 is that the connection with the T1 is an advertised connection... now ok so the T1 comes in at 1857 but it is not due out until 1905 and those 8 minutes are for the driver to do what he wants with {in this case IIRC there is also a crew change at this time on the T1} therefore the T1C cannot leave until the T1 is loading. So why, I hear you ask, doesn't the T1C arrive 15 mins later to cut the waiting time? Quite simply leaving Cardiff at 1645 gives a predictable, if a little congested, journey time.. if the T1C left Cardiff at 1700 it would be running slap bang in the middle of the rush hr with the consequent unpredictable journey times... which would totally destroy the reliability of the connection



The 1855 T1S to Ty Croes is only a positioning journey registered commercially by First to enable payment of BSOG. It isn't technically part of the contract.



The reason why the T1C only runs "one way" is simple... it is the WG's reluctant replacement for the 701 which only ran "one way" therefore there were no calls for a service running the other way... as it had never been possible... in fact the T1C exists, in large part, due to the efforts of Elin Jones who is a West Wales AM

Thanks for the information.

I understand the ”history” that the Aberystwyth to Cardiff route has always been one way traffic. The point I am trying to make is that, (especially now that both the T1S and T1C operators are located in South Wales), it would be logical to employ Trawscymru services running from South Wales to Aberystwyth. If the proposed T10 (Bangor-Oswestry) route is considered to be viable (presumably going both ways) and the T3 (Wrexham to Barmouth) has in excess of 10 services per day running both ways then 1 service per day between Cardiff and Aberystwyth would not seem to be excessive. It would be interesting to know how the WG are evaluating demand for the new routes they are introducing. The following population statistics apply.:-

Bangor 18,476, Oswestry 17,105 , T10 Bangor to Oswestry 35,581

Wrexham 136,700, Barmouth 2,246 , T3 Wrexham to Barmouth 138,946

Aberystwyth 18,965 , Cardiff 470,816 , T1C Cardiff to Aberystwyth 489,781

Aberystwyth 18,965 , Swansea 308,805, . T1S/T1C Swansea to Aberystwyth 327,770

I guess the above may answer the question from mikestone1952.regarding the T10. Perhaps the WG have decided they cannot possibly get away with introducing a new Trawscymru route which has so few customers..

On another tack is anyone aware of discussions on including the Blaenau Ffestiniog area in the route of the TrawsCymru T2 service. Ken Skates has said “”I'm afraid I will have to write to the Member (Helen Mary Jones AM for Mid and West Wales) with details of what discussions have taken place specifically with regard to the T2 service “”. Whatever is being discussed is a state secret and he cannot inform the Welsh Assembly of the proposed route changes (Probably it would be a breach of someone’s confidence or commercially sensitive). The talks are said to have taken place between WG officials and Gwynedd and Conwy councils. It would be interesting to know whether discussions were also held with Powys, Ceredigion, and Carmarthenshire Councils in view of the fact that the Bangor/Carmarthen (T2/T1) route was considered by both the Winckler review and the WG Transport Strategy to be of strategic importance (no rail alternative) and requiring improvements in journey times.

 

[johntrawscymru]

Welsh Assembly Question WAQ77368 (e) Tabled on 05/11/2018 by Janet Finch-Saunders AM for the Constituency: of Aberconwy.

“”Will the Cabinet Secretary state by when the TrawsCymru bus service should be running between Betws-y-Coed and Dolgellau?””
To be answered by: Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport. on 12/11/2018

Outside of politics Janet plays an active role in the Llandudno community. Janet is proud to be a former Mayor of Llandudno.

It seems Llandudno is where all the Trawscymru routes are dreamed up.

Can anyone answer the above question before 12/11/2018 ??

 

[krus_aragon]

It seems Llandudno is where all the Trawscymru routes are dreamed up.

Ironic, given that no TrawsCymru routes serve Llandudno...

 

[K219UHA]

I see the Traveline Cymru website has now reinstated the two "short" journeys to/from Oswestry by Lloyds Coaches, but has them turning-short at the "Park Gates" rather then daring to venture all the way to the Bus Station! Curious and curiouser!

Perhaps the other occupants of the Bus station bit or kicked Wyn Lloyds'

Those Lloyds workings also continue to and from Wrexham Bus Station as per what Tanat Valley do despite been missing on the PDF! I cannot fathom why Lloyds do not use Oswestry Bus Station however, it has caused much negativity locally when Tanat Valley do.

 

[RELL6L]

Powys seem to have made some recent improvements to the X47 and X75 which mean they could form a useful part of the TrawsCymru network. The X75 (barely changed) is two hourly from Shrewsbury through Welshpool, Newtown and Llanidloes to Llangurig. The X47 runs two hourly from Aberystwyth to Llangurig, Rhayader and Llandrindod Wells. The X75 has 14 minutes turnround at Llangurig during which the X47 passes in both directions. Not only that but the X47 appears to have good connections (7-10 minutes) with the T4 heading to and from the south at Llandrindod Wells on many journeys. Both the X47 and X75 are operated by Celtic Travel on whose website the timetables can be found. The heading on the timetables describes them as "TrawsCymru Connect".

Interestingly the X47 timetables says Bws Powys, Bws Ceredigion on it. The Bws Powys website remains almost useless but there is a link to a zip file with Excel versions of some timetables in it. The Ceredigion website bus timetable list ignores the X47 altogether (but the 525 timetable does mention the X47 and says to contact Powys). Not only that but the Ceredigion sponsored 525 still runs from Aberystwyth to Llangurig and Llanidloes, run by Mid Wales Travel, with some journeys appearing to compete with the X47! Both companies run at 17.40 from Aberystwyth to Llanidloes, the morning journeys are a few minutes apart. The non-subsidised return journeys on the 525, which look like positioning journeys, actually could provide some connections, although the X75 arrives in Llanidloes at 18.46 with the 525 to Aberystwyth departing at 18.45! Even more oddly the X47 and X75 also run in tandem, both leaving Rhayader for Llanidloes at 07.45 and returning at 16.43. Are these duplications because of school traffic which needs two buses?

Has there been any publicity for Traws Cymru Connect? I've seen nothing. The Traws Cymru website has nothing. Google it and you find a reference to the First 460 from Carmarthen to Cardigan -clearly another sensible route to brand like this - but nothing else. Why spend the money on a network and not tell anyone? And wouldn't it be better to make these a proper part of the network, called T47 and T75 perhaps? Or is there some politics involved?

 

[johntrawscymru]

Powys seem to have made some recent improvements to the X47 and X75 which mean they could form a useful part of the TrawsCymru network. The X75 (barely changed) is two hourly from Shrewsbury through Welshpool, Newtown and Llanidloes to Llangurig. The X47 runs two hourly from Aberystwyth to Llangurig, Rhayader and Llandrindod Wells. The X75 has 14 minutes turnround at Llangurig during which the X47 passes in both directions. Not only that but the X47 appears to have good connections (7-10 minutes) with the T4 heading to and from the south at Llandrindod Wells on many journeys. Both the X47 and X75 are operated by Celtic Travel on whose website the timetables can be found. The heading on the timetables describes them as "TrawsCymru Connect".

Interestingly the X47 timetables says Bws Powys, Bws Ceredigion on it. The Bws Powys website remains almost useless but there is a link to a zip file with Excel versions of some timetables in it. The Ceredigion website bus timetable list ignores the X47 altogether (but the 525 timetable does mention the X47 and says to contact Powys). Not only that but the Ceredigion sponsored 525 still runs from Aberystwyth to Llangurig and Llanidloes, run by Mid Wales Travel, with some journeys appearing to compete with the X47! Both companies run at 17.40 from Aberystwyth to Llanidloes, the morning journeys are a few minutes apart. The non-subsidised return journeys on the 525, which look like positioning journeys, actually could provide some connections, although the X75 arrives in Llanidloes at 18.46 with the 525 to Aberystwyth departing at 18.45! Even more oddly the X47 and X75 also run in tandem, both leaving Rhayader for Llanidloes at 07.45 and returning at 16.43. Are these duplications because of school traffic which needs two buses?

Has there been any publicity for Traws Cymru Connect? I've seen nothing. The Traws Cymru website has nothing. Google it and you find a reference to the First 460 from Carmarthen to Cardigan -clearly another sensible route to brand like this - but nothing else. Why spend the money on a network and not tell anyone? And wouldn't it be better to make these a proper part of the network, called T47 and T75 perhaps? Or is there some politics involved?

Thanks for the information especially regarding the X75 to Shrewsbury which looks like a good option to get from Mid Wales into the Midlands. You make a very good point about publicity. The Trawscymru website has a very useful map showing all the Trawscymru routes . It would be useful for this map to be displayed on a notice on the inside of Trawscymru buses (as the London Metro do) so that the public are made aware of the other services available in addition to the route they usually use. The Trawscymru website map could also have a list/table attached on the website showing for each location named on the map the major onward services that are available from that location eg for Newtown the X75 to Shrewsbury and Llangurig etc and for Aberystwyth the X47 and 525 etc.
The other issue regarding publicity is the electronic screens on buses which have been largely abandoned and simply show the Trawscymru logo . The Trawscymru website map could be displayed on that screen instead of the Trawscymru logo along with other information regarding onward services. The electronic screens were placed on the buses to provide information to the public but the money spent has been totally wasted.
I suspect rebranding X47 and X75 as part of the network would be resisted by the WG as they would more than likely have to fund them.

 

[johntrawscymru]

Ironic, given that no TrawsCymru routes serve Llandudno...

Bizarre indeed . There are obviously lots of discussions going on in North Wales regarding Trawscymru routes which are so hush hush that 2 local Assembly members are asking formal questions of the Welsh Minister for Transport .

As you point out there is no existing TrawsCymru route to serve Llandudno but does the Betws-y-Coed to Dolgellau route go anywhere else ??. Betws-y-Coed to Dolgellau is 34 miles . Hardly a long distance route. Llandudno is in a direct line 20 miles North of Betws-y-Coed on the A470 which is 35 minutes by car . My money is on the route in question being Llandudno to Dolgellau and I suspect that the AM did not want to appear to be too partisan in the way she raised the question. We may or may not get an answer on 12/11/2018.

The other AMs question is even more bizarre ie a diversion of the T2 to go via Blaenau Ffestiniog.

 

[WelshBuses93]

Published a couple of weeks ago, a Contract Award Notice for the TrawsCymru T10 service.
https://www.sell2wales.gov.wales/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=OCT271396

 

[DaveHarries]

Published a couple of weeks ago, a Contract Award Notice for the TrawsCymru T10 service.
https://www.sell2wales.gov.wales/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=OCT271396

None awarded according to that. Read the full text of the notice, part 5 (V).

Dave

 

[splashoutradio]

The other AMs question is even more bizarre ie a diversion of the T2 to go via Blaenau Ffestiniog.

Not too sure if this is just a coincidence, but Llew Jones, the local bus operator from Blaenau heading north withdrew all but one return journey from the town. Gwynedd Council have since provided funding as a temporary measure, but an quote from a local AM states "I also hope that further steps can be taken to include the X19 service as part of the Cross Wales services."
The article if anyone's interested is available to read at https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/reprieve-blaenau-llandudno-bus-service-15394856

It also appears, that yet again, unpublished changes may have crept into the TrawsCymru network!
Whilst I understand timetabling is a bit of an art form and a juggling act, trying to make limited resources serve the most amount of people, the total lack of reliable information and changes that happen without any prior warning is somewhat bewildering. The TrawsCymru website still doesn't acknowledge the T12.
Changes to the T12 from 05/11/18 - https://www.traveline.cymru/disruptions/1060/

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not too sure if this is just a coincidence, but Llew Jones, the local bus operator from Blaenau heading north withdrew all but one return journey from the town. Gwynedd Council have since provided funding as a temporary measure, but an quote from a local AM states "I also hope that further steps can be taken to include the X19 service as part of the Cross Wales services."
The article if anyone's interested is available to read at https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/reprieve-blaenau-llandudno-bus-service-15394856

It also appears, that yet again, unpublished changes may have crept into the TrawsCymru network!
Whilst I understand timetabling is a bit of an art form and a juggling act, trying to make limited resources serve the most amount of people, the total lack of reliable information and changes that happen without any prior warning is somewhat bewildering. The TrawsCymru website still doesn't acknowledge the T12.
Changes to the T12 from 05/11/18 - https://www.traveline.cymru/disruptions/1060/

To be honest, it would make much more sense for the T10 to run from Llandudno up the Conwy Valley to Betsy than go up the Nant Ffrancon. However, still not convinced of some great need east of there - the good folk of Pentrefoelas won't know what's hit them!!