Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

WeGoAgain · 5 Nov 2018

Peter Sarf said:
Must admit I hesitate to wash my hands in automatic sinks since my bad experience. One of those automatic sinks dispenses soap first then.... no water.

The trick is to activate the Soap dispenser sensor first without getting any soap on your hands, then activate the water sensor and see whether any water is dispensed.

- Yes, you run the risk of using the last bit of water in the tank, but that's highly unlikely.

RailUK Forums

spark001uk · 11 Nov 2018

I find in a fair few of the small toilets the tap sensor is a bit keen and activates as soon as you walk in there!

Peter Sarf · 11 Nov 2018

WeGoAgain said:
The trick is to activate the Soap dispenser sensor first without getting any soap on your hands, then activate the water sensor and see whether any water is dispensed. - Yes, you run the risk of using the last bit of water in the tank, but that's highly unlikely.

Thanks - seems one just has to be quick but not too quick. I think I was being too quick for the soap dispenser - I did not want a mistake on my hands !. I suppose using a tissue might work reliably.

spark001uk · 28 Nov 2018

[Sort of 700 related] :
Something been puzzling me a while now. A number of TL stations (all 700 served), particularly the core, seem to still have all the platform cctv monitors running - some covered up with paper, some not.
Is this a fallback requirement for emergencies (or if the on-train cctv fails), or do they just like wasting electricity?
As some of them are covered up, I would suspect the latter?!

jon0844 · 28 Nov 2018

They're no longer in use. Why they'd be powered up, I have no idea. Definitely a waste of electricity.

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be used if there was an onboard camera issue. A train would either rely on platform staff to dispatch or the train wouldn't release the doors/stop there.

Fincra5 · 28 Nov 2018

spark001uk said:
[Sort of 700 related] :
Something been puzzling me a while now. A number of TL stations (all 700 served), particularly the core, seem to still have all the platform cctv monitors running - some covered up with paper, some not.
Is this a fallback requirement for emergencies (or if the on-train cctv fails), or do they just like wasting electricity?
As some of them are covered up, I would suspect the latter?!

Which side of the core are we talking? If its South of the River don't some SouthEastern Networkers run from Blackfriars and thus need Platfrom Monitors for DOO.

spark001uk · 28 Nov 2018

Fincra5 said:
Which side of the core are we talking? If its South of the River don't some SouthEastern Networkers run from Blackfriars and thus need Platfrom Monitors for DOO.

North of the dishwater.

Antman · 29 Dec 2018

I rode on 700031 today, we got an announcement and message displayed when signal checked at Shortlands but the message remained all the way to Blackfriars.

ComUtoR · 29 Dec 2018

Jack15001 said:
I rode on 700031 today, we got an announcement and message displayed when signal checked at Shortlands but the message remained all the way to Blackfriars.

That picture is certainly not Shortlands Junction. For a second I thought it was the FFCCTV (forward facing, closed circuit television)

bengley · 29 Dec 2018

ComUtoR said:
That picture is certainly not Shortlands Junction. For a second I thought it was the FFCCTV (forward facing, closed circuit television)

The image is of Bedford. I don't think there was any suggestion it was shortlands junction!

ComUtoR · 29 Dec 2018

Hence the second part of my sentence. For a second I thought that when the message was activated it was showing the FFCCTV and was actually really cool for a change. Then I realized it was a 700 and remembered how S"£$"! the PIS is.

Seems weird to use a screen grab from what appears to be a CCTV image. Not sure what image I would have used tbh.

samuelmorris · 30 Dec 2018

Image used is fine, I've long thought these messages could do with image accompaniments for those that may not fully understand English - that one will do as good as any.

MML · 30 Dec 2018

Nothing wrong with the message or image per se, it's the fact it remains for a long period after the train has started moving again.
I think the message is only deleted if the driver manually enters a code. Otherwise, it remains until something else is triggered like the god awful 'See it, say it, sort it'.
You'd have thought the designers could have triggered automated deletion of the message and image once the train had started moving again or once it reached a certain speed. Asking the driver to enter a convoluted code each time isn't going to happen.

Bedpan · 30 Dec 2018

Wouldn't there be a "we are now approaching" or "the next stop is" or "this train is for ..... calling at ....." announcement between Shortlands and Blackfriars which would automatically over ride the message?

bionic · 30 Dec 2018

Bedpan said:
Wouldn't there be a "we are now approaching" or "the next stop is" or "this train is for ..... calling at ....." announcement between Shortlands and Blackfriars which would automatically over ride the message?

No. PIS on those units is a joke.

MML · 30 Dec 2018

From my experience the activation of the 'we're currently at a red signal' prevents the display of all the useful practical 'this train stops at..., the next station stop is....' messages and it's only when the equally useless 'see it, say it, sort it' overrides it on the half hour that the message disappears.
Perhaps Blackfriars was reached at xx25 or xx55 in the case of the original poster.
Personally, if the train was at a standstill I always assumed it was at a red signal and didn't need a PIS to inform me of the fact.

A case of the PIS controllers taking the PIS by giving us loads of unnecessary messages which then interfere with the messages we do want to here. Such as where is the train stopping and what's the next stop.

bengley · 30 Dec 2018

MML said:
Nothing wrong with the message or image per se, it's the fact it remains for a long period after the train has started moving again.
I think the message is only deleted if the driver manually enters a code. Otherwise, it remains until something else is triggered like the god awful 'See it, say it, sort it'.
You'd have thought the designers could have triggered automated deletion of the message and image once the train had started moving again or once it reached a certain speed. Asking the driver to enter a convoluted code each time isn't going to happen.

No code required to remove the message. Driver has to press a few buttons to select pre recorded messages, then select 'clear down' which removes the message.

As there's no reminder in the cab that a message is being displayed, some drivers will inevitably forget to do it.

TRAX · 30 Dec 2018

This seems like a really old-fashioned way of doing things for a train that presents himself like one of the most advanced.

jon0844 · 30 Dec 2018

The PIS system does seem both very clever and also very dumb at the same time.

The audio glitching until all screens are showing a bitmapped image is something they need to fix. It's extremely laggy, much like I believe the touchscreens are in the cab.

I do wonder how these will look in 20-30 years time. A bit like early generation digital TV set top boxes where the processors weren't up to the task. You couldn't do much in the way of software upgrades as the hardware wasn't up to the job.

F Great Eastern · 30 Dec 2018

Well, the company behind it is very well regarded and is designing a lot of the PIS systems for the forthcoming stock on order in the UK as well as in Europe and around the world, so you'd like to think they can sort it!

https://www.televic-rail.com/en/references

jon0844 · 30 Dec 2018

I wonder how easy it will be to upgrade the computer systems as the years go on. Or indeed if they will be upgraded.

Maybe it's just bad programming. Maybe the 'see it say it' graphic is badly compressed over others that don't seem to delay things. Maybe it's just a bug.

It is nice to see that there are new things being added to the software, but I'd certainly like to see more live information. Why no connection details at key stations? Why no live information on delays relating to TL and GN trains, yet TfL info even if going out of London?

bramling · 30 Dec 2018

jon0844 said:
I wonder how easy it will be to upgrade the computer systems as the years go on. Or indeed if they will be upgraded.

Maybe it's just bad programming. Maybe the 'see it say it' graphic is badly compressed over others that don't seem to delay things. Maybe it's just a bug.

It is nice to see that there are new things being added to the software, but I'd certainly like to see more live information. Why no connection details at key stations? Why no live information on delays relating to TL and GN trains, yet TfL info even if going out of London?

Come on even LU does pointless box-ticking information. Slightly less common now there’s no money to pay for monitoring and mystery shoppers, but at one time it wasn’t uncommon to get a full service update somewhere like leaving Burnt Oak northbound, really relevant and useful to know that the Romford-Upminster shuttle is suspended!

Bedpan · 31 Dec 2018

Anticipated arrival times at stations would be a plus - I know you can find them on your phone but would be helpful if they were on the PIS.

SAPhil · 8 Jan 2019

One of the few things that was better about these trains was that the ride was a lot smoother. Last night I was traveling home on an 8 car unit that was bouncing around quite noticeably between Cricklewood and Mill Hill. Has the track deteriorated around here or has the suspension on the carriages started to wear out already?

MML · 8 Jan 2019

There is an awful bit of track between Redhill tunnel and Mill Hill when travelling southbound on the fast line which gives a good old jolt at speed. But the report above would appear to be concerning the slow lines.
I too was wondering whether the suspension was deteriorating as I have noticed a gentle swaying of the carriage when a certain repetitive rhythm is encountered.
It also depends where you sit. Sit adjacent to the drivers cab and you feel every bump as the bogie passes over. Really unpleasant.

MML · 8 Jan 2019

Erm, yes I mean't Elstree tunnel :oops:

Emblematic · 8 Jan 2019

MML said:
There is an awful bit of track between Redhill tunnel and Mill Hill when travelling southbound on the fast line which gives a good old jolt at speed. But this would appear to be on the slow lines.
I too was wondering whether the suspension was deteriorating as I have noticed a gentle swaying of the carriage when a certain repetitive rhythm is encountered.
It also depends where you sit. Sit adjacent to the drivers cab and you feel every bump as the bogie passes over. Really unpleasant.

Errm, Elstree tunnels, perhaps? I'm sure there are one or two bad spots between Mill Hill and Redhill as well, mind you...

AM9 · 8 Jan 2019

MML said:
There is an awful bit of track between Redhill tunnel and Mill Hill when travelling southbound on the fast line which gives a good old jolt at speed. But this would appear to be on the slow lines.
I too was wondering whether the suspension was deteriorating as I have noticed a gentle swaying of the carriage when a certain repetitive rhythm is encountered.
It also depends where you sit. Sit adjacent to the drivers cab and you feel every bump as the bogie passes over. Really unpleasant.

It is also quite rough on the fast lines. For a really bumpy ride, it was hard to beat the Electrostars at 90+. The 700s (I've travelled on many of them both early and later arrivers) handle the track a lot better and their age doesn't seem to make any significant difference. The crossover ladders at Carlton Road, West Hampstead south and Radlett would also have very violent lurches if taken at linespeed, even in brand new 387s whereas the 700s seem to make easy of them.

Bald Rick · 8 Jan 2019

Yep a few track problems between Mill hill and Elstree, and a speed restriction is on one stretch of the the fast lines in the area as a result.

Dunnyrail · 9 Jan 2019

On the aubject of 700’s but a little different from the norm of these posts. I have a dog that happily travels by Train, I live and use the line that serves St.Neots Station. Prior to the introduction of 700’s Barney (a Golden Retriever) was very happy to travel on 317, 319, 365 types of Unit and indeed any other type. Then came the 700’s, now Barney trembles a little, tries to sit on me constantly putting a paw up prior to trying the sit on me routine. What is it about the 700’s? I have found him to be a little better in the Trailer Cars but not 100%. I am wondering if there is some kind of electrical sound coupled with the i side bearings that he can hear that I do not notice, Dogs can hear and smell tbings that we can not percieve. He is also fine on the other new units on the line Bombadier ones cant remember the class so it is up to now only 700’s, but I am dreading Azumas and IEP’s, perhaps my long distance trips out by Train with Barney will be curtailed.

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