STMW doesn't have the same ring to it.
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May 2019 timetable changes
- Thread starter absolutelymilk
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STMW doesn't have the same ring to it.
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Ah ok. Very confusing then! At least it provides a connection to Edinburgh leaving Lime St at 20:12 I suppose
I wonder if the experience is that the Cambridge-Brightons (moving from 1tph to 2tph) are taking enough of the Cambridge/Royston load from the fasts (As they are fairly competitive on journey time), that there is in fact space to accommoate the Letchworth-ites on the fasts?
It's already in the timetable - but it just starts from Royston! 9S15 starts from Royston at 08:38, formed off 9S04, which terminates at Royston at 08:24.
9S04: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G49411/2019/05/29/advanced
9S15: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G49431/2019/05/29/advanced
I've no idea why, though - presumably lack of platform capacity at Cambridge?
Kite159
Veteran Member
Breich gets a roughly hourly service it seems...
...But still nobody will actually use it
(Also it looks like Balmossie/Barry Links/Golf Street are getting increased to 2 services in each direction)
...But still nobody will actually use it
(Also it looks like Balmossie/Barry Links/Golf Street are getting increased to 2 services in each direction)
So....
xx24 Cambridge-Brightons usually are in Platform 1. Only Platforms 1, 7 and 8 can be used as they are 12 car.
Whilst it is sat there, the Kings Cross-Cambridge North arrives into Platform 4 at xx21, which it must do so via the Through Line and 1068 points (the scissors crossover), as the Brighton is sat in Platform 1.
There is also an xx21 departure from Platform 8 to Liverpool Street. With the ex-Kings Cross going via the through, this is a conflict at the south end, but a 0 minute platform end margin is permissible for the Liv St departure to follow the Kings Cross arrival.
However, the 0821 Liverpool Street is pathed through Platform 7, not Platform 8, which I think is an overlap clash, so its arrival from Ely cannot be simultaneous to an arrival via the Down through. The Ely-Liv Street cannot use 8 as it looks like there is a King's Lynn portion sat in it having been dropped by a down working, awaiting thr next Up working.
So, the Brighton train that would work back as the 0824 shunts to come back half an hour later than normal as the 0854, to give the ex-Kings Cross a straighr run in through P1. The next ex-Brighton 'steps up' at Royston to start the 0824 short instead.
bramling
Veteran Member
I think there's a chance it may be political. There's been a *lot* of political pressure locally for Letchworth to get its non-stop London services back - look how quickly these stops have re-appeared in the evening. Likewise it's not really ideal for the Baldock 365 services to be filled up with Letchworth passengers, and the Ashwell calls on the fast services are likewise not wonderful as these passengers were previously used to boarding Royston starters which would have turned up pretty empty at Ashwell, rather than boarding a mostly-full 387.
Presumably Letchworth passengers don't mind standing on a non-stop 387 service, perhaps having been used to that in the past, whereas Ashwell users do?!
One of the flaws with the service as it has materialised is the possibility of Cambridge passengers boarding the Brighton services for through journey opportunities. This isn't ideal, as for Cambridge passengers it gives a longer journey time, whilst for others it fills up the service to the detriment of users at the intermediate stations - especially should the fast Cambridge services then run with spare capacity (although from observation this doesn't seem to be the case). It’s lose-lose really, and Cambridge can’t reasonably expect to have the Brighton service available but expect non-stop 387s as a backstop for when Thameslink falls over. And it’s another reason why the 365s were ultimately more suitable - more seats for a given length of train, compared to the 387s which offer less seating combined with constricted standing space.
In essence the backtracking and reinstatement of Letchworth and Royston calls on the 387 services probably shouldn’t come as a surprise. I suspect future timetables could well see further moves in that direction - especially as the mix of stopping patterns on the branch is one of the big performance weaknesses of the Thameslink concept. Things have changed quite a bit from the days when the Cambridge/Brighton service was even going to omit Baldock!
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It looks like a considerably bigger win for Stone than I had thought actually. The current ridiculous long gap between Stafford > Stone services at Stafford between 1742 and 1945 is filled in. There is an addition, too, of a late evening 2258 departure from Stafford for Stone. All-day through trains between Alsager / Kidsgrove / Stone and Birmingham will probably be reasonably attractive. The 1722 departure from Birmingham New Street reaches Stone in just 43 minutes - I don't see how that could have been much better!
There is an 0634 and an 0704 from Stone to Stafford. I suspect the 0634 will have a perfect connection onto the 0654 from Stafford, into London Euston at 0823. The 0704 will have a slightly less good connection, but onto a faster train, the 0736 from Stafford, arriving at London Euston at 0854. Pretty good, regardless. Anyone after Rugby or Milton Keynes Central might be dissappointed. The Trent Valley services leave Stafford at 0608 (no connection from Stone) and 0739, which connects off the second service. For the rest of the day, when the Trent Valley service is at xx56, there is a 12 minute connection for journeys from Stone to Milton Keynes Central.
The other Trent Valley changes are definitely very positive. The 0547 from Crewe serves Stafford, then all stations (obviously except Polesworth) to Rugby before running fast to London Euston, arriving at 0806 (same arrival time, but speeded up 15ish mins). That's an excellent move for the Trent Valley stations. Similarly the first northbound from London is now nice and fast rather than the current slow 0624.
ForTheLoveOf
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Just had a look at what's uploaded to RealTimeTrains. Some impressive improvements I have to say, but a lot of through working is being introduced all at once, and I somehow fear it's going to become a reprieve of what the May 2018 timetable change did to Northern and GTR. Let's hope everything goes smoothly!
Some notable changes include:
- Introduction of all-day through services from Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston via Birmingham and Northampton (joining up existing Liverpool-Birmingham and Birmingham-London services), in a slightly unusual '9' class headcode, for bargain hunters and also those who love 350s so much they'll happily spend around over 4 hours in one travelling 202 miles!
- As stated above, the introduction of a train from Stafford to London that actually gets into London before 09:00, significantly improving the current unenviable position of 'WMR/LNR only' season ticket holders from Stafford to London, who currently have no route-permitted services whatsoever that get them into London before 09:00
- Joining up of Coventry-Nuneaton and Coventry-Leamington services, in addition to earlier first trains and later last trains. Not much attention been paid to arranging good connections to the last services though
- The possible ending of LM services via the Hixon cut-off?
43074
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The extra Birmingham to Shrewsbury services are also in the system, which is very positive too, but I'm still not convinced of the wisdom of running all three of the Euston services across Birmingham, whether that works in practice remains to be seen.
ForTheLoveOf
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Well the positive side is it will mean much reduced platform congestion and it may free up a few units so that there are fewer unit availability related cancellations and shortforms (indeed I think at least some of the through services will at the very least have 8 coaches, i.e. 2 units, as now, so hopefully some of these are maintained through New Street and aren't detached there).
As you say, the risk is that this joining up causes reliability issues. It's somewhat ironic IMO that this joining up is being done, so many years (about 15) after the latter days of Central Trains saw many through workings split.
On the flip side, you could argue that the fasts, at many times of day, are in need of relief from Cambridge by the 'back-up' semi-fast service. Personal observation is still that the majority of Cambridge demand still gravitates to the fasts (probably a 'force of habit' type thing), but the Brightons cream off maybe 5-10% of this; more pronounced in the Up direction where they don't get overtaken.
I think there's a reality as well of having the Cambridge-Brightons forming a decent 3rd and 4th semi-fast service (and the through journey opportunities) acts as a revenue and demand driver for GTR, particularly off-peak, rather than a simple 'operational convenience' terminus.
I of course declare my vested interest as living in Cambridge!
Deafdoggie
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Never understood why that didn't call at Stafford before, and it sat at Rugeley for around 10 minutes! I guess it was just a stock move really, it did used to be ECS so it is better in service.
ForTheLoveOf
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I believe this was to allow for flexibility for being diverted via Hixon (without causing a cancellation). Nevertheless, as you say, it makes very sense for it not to have called, and clearly it has now been possible to amend it so that it is always booked to go via and call at Stafford.
Considering the fact that it now presents a viable and surprisingly fast option to get to London, as well as the much improved return service, I wouldn't be surprised if sales of 'WMR/LNR only' Anytime Returns and season tickets from the Trent Valley to London increase significantly after May!
Thomas6187
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The 10:05, 13:05 and 15:05 XC departures from Piccadilly have been extended to Exeter St Davids with the 19:59 & 22:00 arrivals starting at Exeter St Davids
yep, but fair play to WestMidTrains at least they have delivered on what they said they would with only a 6 month delay, much better outcome than on most TOCs recently.
The speeding up of the Euston - Crewe via Trent Valley service is very impressive, running via Weedon and Madeley the xx46 Euston arrives Crewe at xx53 in 2 hours 7 mins.
Deafdoggie
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Stoke is the biggest looser in this really. It already has a good service to Birmingham, however, Crewe is a big gainer. With much less of a journey time difference between LNWR and VT but a big price difference. And many of the Crewe VT services a Voyager too, so LNWR becomes even more attractive.
I'd far rather travel on a 221 Voyager - with proper first class, seat reservations, tables, power sockets, and catering - than a LNWR 350 which, the few times I've used them, have had none of those things. On a journey the length of Crewe-London, or even Crewe-Birmingham, lack of seat reservations really is a deal breaker for me.
ForTheLoveOf
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I wonder whether this is likely to have a significant enough effect that Virgin will be considering it in their next direct award negotiation.
Kite159
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Still with both XC services towards Reading going via Coventry or has one of those services been sent via Solihull like it does Monday - Saturdays?
ForTheLoveOf
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You would be starting at the origin of the service though, so the likelihood of having a seat is high, provided you are there in time.
Kite159
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Also 1700, 1800 and 1900 starting back at Exeter. Other changes include the 0935ish from Penzance to Manchester now goes to Dundee (1125 ex Plymouth) with the Manchester service starting at Plymouth at 1150.
Also 1L00 is show as starting back at Bristol at 0613 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P38203/2019/06/10/advanced
True. Still, though, my experience of LNWR on that route is that they throw up 350/2 trains with 3+2 seating which I find simply horrid. I don't mind 350s - I've used TPE from Manchester to Scotland many times. But the way the 350/2 interiors are laid out makes them so unsuitable for Crewe-London that it's almost funny.
swt_passenger
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In the consultation for the similar intended 2017 changes this was supposedly achieved mainly by ceasing to serve Paignton. Is there any sign of corresponding reductions elsewhere to provide the stock?
The more direct service from Crewe is and 2 and a quarter hours, so even their own booking engine is likely to suggest a change there for an advance ticket, and a journey time of around 3 hours.
Hard to say what the deal is. In addition to keeping the two Birmingham services, the previous LM request was to extend this faster service up to Liverpool. Is this the new company thinking they can get the same value for no real spend, or is this them trying to progress the issue in the face of continued resistance to a sensible arrangement.
Bletchleyite
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This, I expect, as well as a desire to reduce terminating services at New St.
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