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May 2019 timetable changes

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323235

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None of those numbers provide sufficient evidence of trains being regularly full and standing when you take the capacity of a 323 into consideration.

The effect of the changes haven't made services quieter , it has simply re-distributed loadings and provided additional capacity where it is needed. If anything in the long term it should make services busier.

We all look forward to additional travel opportunities which are planned on the Stoke line but I don't see the urgency you do for additional Northern services south of Macclesfield and I think what happened at May 2018 was a good reality check in that sense.
 
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RailUK Forums

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They could allow travel along that route with the proviso that passengers do not board or alight at Runcorn, Frodsham, or Helsby.

There is a precedent for this as being as I am originally from the West Midlands, I can remember that the PTE products could be used to travel through Coleshill and Water Orton (outside the West Midlands County Council [sic] and PTE area) on the 59/90 (the 161/171 before then) bus, but not for boarding or alighting at any stop along the section of route outwith the PTE area.

Interestingly Merseyrail are looking to trial their new battery trains down to Helsby in 2020 which could, if trials are successful, make Helsby a Merseyrail terminus.
 

notlob.divad

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Interestingly Merseyrail are looking to trial their new battery trains down to Helsby in 2020 which could, if trials are successful, make Helsby a Merseyrail terminus.
Merseytravel are also in the middle of a review of ticketing across the whole of the City region, including 'smart' ticketing. As this is City region wide ie including Halton, it is quite likely that the end result will include Halton entirely within the LCR ticketing structure.
 

CptCharlee

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It will be interesting to see if there is any changes for XC. Seeing as the franchise competition was scrapped, wondering if any of the mooted changes will be included.

Was it confirmed the Paington, Guildford and Penzance extensions were to remain?
 

wls1

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SN, GN and TL are in, no major changes to the Thameslink timetable except Brighton-Cambridge goes to 2tph. Maidstone-Welwyn doesn't start and Beckenham is still SE.
 

47421

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IrishDave

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SN, GN and TL are in, no major changes to the Thameslink timetable except Brighton-Cambridge goes to 2tph. Maidstone-Welwyn doesn't start and Beckenham is still SE.
In other words, what should have happened in December 2018 is happening in May 2019. Personally, I am very much looking forward to having an 0737 from Brighton to London Bridge - the current gap from 0718 to 0759 is really a bit too long at the height of the morning peak.
 

bramling

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SN, GN and TL are in, no major changes to the Thameslink timetable except Brighton-Cambridge goes to 2tph. Maidstone-Welwyn doesn't start and Beckenham is still SE.

Interesting to see the second Cambridge/Brighton seems to wither away in the evening, unless there’s more to be uploaded (which given that the incoming paths at Cambridge have subsequent paths taking the stock to the sidings would seem to be unlikely). Strangely there's now a Brighton-Royston and return Royston-Brighton service in the morning (perhaps an outcome of limited stabling accommodation in Cambridge?), watch out for that one being turned at Letchworth in the slightest event of problems! There's also a new 06:03 King's Cross-Cambridge service which is part of the second Cambridge/Brighton sequence.

Another small change is some but not all Cambridge/Brighton services now call at Ashwell & Morden - currently only one morning service does. I'm not sure if this was always planned, or has been in response to user demand (the problem with Ashwell being served by the 387 services is that they will always find themselves on a busy train, and in the up direction likely finding all seats taken on many services - and at off-peak times always being confined to the slow services which especially in the down direction take a very long time).

The consequential changes appear to be largely as predicted - virtually all the Royston 365 services revert to Baldock with just one early service from Royston remaining (perhaps those who don’t like ironing boards will make a bee-line for this?!). The lunchtime Letchworth reverser remains - I’m not sure when the Barrington freight flow ends and if that will have an impact in the future? The hourly Stevenage-Moorgate 313 service is now cut back to Watton-at-Stone with a bus to Stevenage, although the few early morning / late evening services which run to Stevenage for access from/to Letchworth sidings continue to run in service.

A few minor changes to reporting numbers, mainly tidying up things which probably shouldn't have arisen in the first place (for example the lunchtime Letchworth reverser now correctly has a 2R** reporting number, and various empties out of King's Cross to Hornsey now correctly have 5E** reporting numbers) and a very minor swap round of the 365 diagrams in the evening (but nothing of consequence). A very few minor changes to platforms at King's Cross as well. Also one of the morning Peterborough core services now originates from Horsham instead of Gatwick Airport.

Will have a look at the inners when I get time!
 
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agbrs_Jack

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None of those numbers provide sufficient evidence of trains being regularly full and standing when you take the capacity of a 323 into consideration.

The effect of the changes haven't made services quieter , it has simply re-distributed loadings and provided additional capacity where it is needed. If anything in the long term it should make services busier.

We all look forward to additional travel opportunities which are planned on the Stoke line but I don't see the urgency you do for additional Northern services south of Macclesfield and I think what happened at May 2018 was a good reality check in that sense.

Well you don’t see the urgency because you don’t use the line south of Macclesfield.
There is a minimum service level commitment for a reason, if it wasn’t needed, it wouldn’t be in the commitment.
 

Starmill

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The way the new Network Rail site works makes it impossible to link directly to the specific pdfs, unlike with the old site or with the TfGM or TfN sites.
I agree that Network Rail's website is not at all user friendly on this point. I was equally foxed by the post you made, though. My devices couldn't even open the PDFs, let alone download them to read them. Does anyone have any insights as to why Network Rail have gone to so much trouble to get this section of their website so locked down? I asked a couple of people familiar with computers and software and no easy tricks helped.
 

TheDavibob

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SN, GN and TL are in, no major changes to the Thameslink timetable except Brighton-Cambridge goes to 2tph. Maidstone-Welwyn doesn't start and Beckenham is still SE.
Big perk is that the Saturday service seems to have regained its feet.

Looking at Cambridge specifically, I note the second Brighton on Saturdays is pencilled in as a Freight service only, which I imagine means it won't immediately happen, but the path is being held. Otherwise back to two fasts an hour, finally. Interestingly, there's a couple of hour period on Saturday mornings where Kings Lynn -> London gets 2tph (additionally taking over the 1014 and 1114 departures from Cambridge). They'll be well used both for travel to Cambridge and to London, so a good move (which I assume is brand new?)
 

MikeWM

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Big perk is that the Saturday service seems to have regained its feet.

Looking at Cambridge specifically, I note the second Brighton on Saturdays is pencilled in as a Freight service only, which I imagine means it won't immediately happen, but the path is being held. Otherwise back to two fasts an hour, finally. Interestingly, there's a couple of hour period on Saturday mornings where Kings Lynn -> London gets 2tph (additionally taking over the 1014 and 1114 departures from Cambridge). They'll be well used both for travel to Cambridge and to London, so a good move (which I assume is brand new?)

Not new - this started in May 2017 when the other Cambridge fast was extended to Ely.

I see the timing of the Ely -> KGX fasts retain the long stopover at Cambridge of the original May 2018 timetable, which is irritating compared to the May 2017 timetable (leaving Ely 11 minutes earlier) but a vast improvement on the current Saturday one (which sits at Cambridge for 18 minutes and then becomes a semi-fast rather than a fast). Amazing how GN have worn us down so much that this will now be seen as a massive improvement :(

I also see no other differences north of Cambridge, so I'll have to remember all my other old grievances about the May 2018 timetable, before they were dwarfed by everything else that has gone wrong since then...
 

snookertam

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ScotRail changes identified so far:

Mon-Sat evening Edinburgh/Glasgow Queen Street half hourly services depart each end XX15 & XX45 from 1945 onwards, as opposed to 00 & 30 now. Positive is it extends 15 minute service until 1945, negatives is it changes a pattern that the public are very familiar with.

Last Edinburgh departure from Queen Street at 2345 (v good), last Queen Street departure from Edinburgh now 2315 (15 min earlier than present - that will cause trouble for sure).

1632 Queen Street to Lenzie extended to Stirling.
1704 Queen Street to Falkirk Grahamston diverted to Stirling.
New 2309 Queen Street to Dundee - present 2249 departure terminates at Stirling.

XX18 Alloa and XX48 Dunblane departures from Queen Street generally reversed.
 

swt_passenger

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It will be interesting to see if there is any changes for XC. Seeing as the franchise competition was scrapped, wondering if any of the mooted changes will be included.

Was it confirmed the Paington, Guildford and Penzance extensions were to remain?
I don’t think there was any official announcement. It just went very quiet and then nothing happened. It should have been done and dusted before the franchise competition even started, according to the original consultation. I think there were too many objections to the Scottish changes, and the knock on effects of withdrawing them prevented the southern improvements...
 

xtradj

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Bolton calls are shown on the majority of TransPennine Express trains from Scotland yes. The evening peak Northbound services do not call. The 2310 Manchester Airport to Carlisle is introduced, via Wigan NW but doesn't call there. All are pick up / set down only as universally expected. 0745, 1205 and 1629 Glasgow Central to Liverpool Lime Street are shown, plus return services. There is a 0548 Carlisle to Liverpool Lime Street and a 2012 Liverpool Lime Street to Oxenholme Lake District. Those two call at St Helens Central, along with 1212 Liverpool Lime Street to Glasgow Central.

As it happens, an introduction of a 0012 departure from Preston for Lancaster and Carlisle gives connections to these two cities off the 2110 from London Euston, which is an improvement over the current 2030. It also connects at Carlisle with the Up Lowland Sleeper. If this is by design or serendipity, I cannot say.

Strange that the 20:12 only goes as far as Oxenholme. Considering none of the services stop there 08:12, 12:12 or the 16:12 when departing for Glasgow.
 

xtradj

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3tpd Liverpool - Glasgow via WCML. 1tpd Liverpool - Edinburgh via Newcastle. Manchester Airport platform allocations suggest interworking of Newcastle and Middlesbrough services will continue (40 minute turnrounds), with minor tweaks to the timings of these services. Platform allocations at Scarborough suggest 70 minute turnrounds.

Only one train to Edinburgh from Liverpool? I thought it would be hourly!
 

Starmill

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Strange that the 20:12 only goes as far as Oxenholme. Considering none of the services stop there 08:12, 12:12 or the 16:12 when departing for Glasgow.
Indeed. It goes into the branch platform too. It is almost as if that's the only reason it exists, although that'd make next to no sense. It's very close to an existing Edinburgh train.
 

xtradj

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Yes, from December 2019.

What time does this depart? Is it one train per day return also?

Honestly thought there would be more than just one

Edit:

Is it just one in may 2019

Then hourly in December 2019?
 
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xtradj

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Indeed. It goes into the branch platform too. It is almost as if that's the only reason it exists, although that'd make next to no sense. It's very close to an existing Edinburgh train.

Surprises me. If it went to Penrith I’d be less surprised as the preceeding three all call there. Carlisle would make most sense
 

Starmill

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Surprises me. If it went to Penrith I’d be less surprised as the preceeding three all call there. Carlisle would make most sense
It would still be pretty odd. An existing 2105 from Preston calls at Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith and Carlisle, before going on to Lockerbie, Haymarket and Edinburgh. The new service leaves just 6 minutes ahead of this one and calls at the same two first stations. It could of course be to act as a relief, but at 2105 I find it very difficult to believe that's really necessary.

The other services call at Penrith to help plug gaps, and to skip Lancaster or Oxenholme at times to help them keep out of the way of the train from Manchester Airport, which will havw faster acceleration and higher top speed.
 

xtradj

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It would still be pretty odd. An existing 2105 from Preston calls at Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith and Carlisle, before going on to Lockerbie, Haymarket and Edinburgh. The new service leaves just 6 minutes ahead of this one and calls at the same two first stations. It could of course be to act as a relief, but at 2105 I find it very difficult to believe that's really necessary.

The other services call at Penrith to help plug gaps, and to skip Lancaster or Oxenholme at times to help them keep out of the way of the train from Manchester Airport, which will havw faster acceleration and higher top speed.

Only reason I can see is that it goes to Oxenholme ready for a service to the Airport the following day?

Is Liverpool to Edinburgh 1tpd in may and 1tph in December?
 

Greybeard33

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Is Liverpool to Edinburgh 1tpd in may and 1tph in December?
The franchise TSRs did not require any of the Newcastle services to be extended to Edinburgh before December, so 1tpd from May is a bonus! The TSR specifies 13tpd northbound and 14tpd southbound via Morpeth from December.
 

Wronskian

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Looking at the additional Cambridge<->Brighton services, it seems a shame that there's no 0824 departure, as that would have been another useful option for those heading in to the city for mid-morning meetings (it'd have been ideal for me!). This seems to be the only one missing (there's a 0724, 0754, 0854, 0924 etc) - maybe still to be inserted into the timetable? Still a welcome bit of extra capacity and gives some options through the day.
 

Class 466

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SN, GN and TL are in, no major changes to the Thameslink timetable except Brighton-Cambridge goes to 2tph. Maidstone-Welwyn doesn't start and Beckenham is still SE.
The peak only Beckenham - Blackfriars service stays with SE and is part of the requirements in the next franchise. Weekend service sees an uplifit in May 2019 at last.

Also it'll be Sevenoaks to Welywn (peak only) and Maidstone East to Cambridge/Cambridge North come December 2019.
 

30907

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But it doesn't as it returns to Ardwick 25 minutes after terminating.
My guess is that TPE need/want to run it to Lancaster, but with the Airport right behind there isn't time to terminate at LAN p3 (or a convenient path across to the Up side?) so Oxenholme is the first opportunity.
 

DaveN

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So from the Midland Mainline Thameslink point of view, May 2019 looks like what was promised for Dec 2018, except that the extra Littlehampton services are in as FRGT.
Saturdays and Sundays back to 4tph to Bedford.
Of course, we will have to wait and see how often there really are 4tph on Sundays...
 

philjo

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Another small change is some but not all Cambridge/Brighton services now call at Ashwell & Morden - currently only one morning service does. I'm not sure if this was always planned, or has been in response to user demand (the problem with Ashwell being served by the 387 services is that they will always find themselves on a busy train, and in the up direction likely finding all seats taken on many services - and at off-peak times always being confined to the slow services which especially in the down direction take a very long time).

The consequential changes appear to be largely as predicted - virtually all the Royston 365 services revert to Baldock with just one early service from Royston remaining (perhaps those who don’t like ironing boards will make a bee-line for this?!).

It looks like the Ashwell & Morden calls on the Cambridge/Brighton services are there to replace the peak Kings Lynn-Kings Cross services. RTT shows that these now call at Letchworth instead of Ashwell. Both into London in the morning and also out of London from 1612 onwards.
This is good news as Letchworth is the busiest station on the Cambridge branch. There were a lot of local complaints when the Kings Lynn trains ceased calling at Letchworth last May. between 7 and 8am Letchworth will now have 8 trains towards London - 2 stoppers/2 x non-stop/2x 365s ex-Baldock and 2 x Brightons. Last May when the Brighton services were not running there were only 3 trains in that hour (when they all ran!)
It also means that there should be more room on the Baldock services for those at Knebworth/Welwyn North to find seats as currently some of these trains are full after leaving Hitchin.

Ashwell & Morden will gain an hourly Brighton train calling off-peak - currently only served by stoppers off-peak.
 
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