Ordsall Chord

It is absurd to build the new chord and electrify the line through Salford Central without modernising and finishing the station properly. Yes I know the way rail projects are funded means we are in this position, but the reason for the absurdity doesn't make it less absurd.

158756 said:

That's ridiculous. How many years is it since TfGM were supposedly coming up with funding and an actual plan to open IIRC 3 platforms?

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TfGM got the funding from DfT but then, as I understand it, Network Rail spent it without completing the job and indeed made it harder for it to be completed in future.

Iceflame30 said:

Not sure if that's been posted here, but there was a FOI request regarding bring the Chat Moss platforms back into service at Salford Central:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/468925/response/1137394/attach/2/FOI201800282 Response 05.04.18.pdf

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Actually there never were any Chat Moss platforms. All four platforms served the Bolton line. But I know what you mean, and as far as I'm aware, there will be three new platforms which will allow Chat Moss and Ordsall Chord trains to call there.

snowball said:

TfGM got the funding from DfT but then, as I understand it, Network Rail spent it without completing the job and indeed made it harder for it to be completed in future.

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geoffk said:

Actually there never were any Chat Moss platforms. All four platforms served the Bolton line. But I know what you mean, and as far as I'm aware, there will be three new platforms which will allow Chat Moss and Ordsall Chord trains to call there.

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The estimated cost doubled from £20m to £40m and the position of signals for the chord blocks extending the platforms westwards. The vast development of the dual city centres of Manchester and Salford will probably eventually make funding the rebuild of the station a no brainer but for now the area is still grotty and the demand insufficient for a major rebuild. Potentially the £40m for reopening the platforms and building a 5th platform to serve chord services could be found in the near future but all platforms would be limited to 4 coach services.

I think the chord should primarily be used by Northern services not TPE but that would require a huge rethink of the basis of building the chord! If 2-3tph of Northern services used the chord then the case for 3 extra platforms would be much better. If demand between Manchester and Bolton grows to justify extra services then they can only go to Salford Central and Victoria unless capacity through Oxford Road and Piccadilly is increased. Currently all Monday to Saturday Northern services through the station stop therefore the station redevelopment is reliant on new services.

Chester1 said:

the demand insufficient for a major rebuild

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I can only speak from my own experience travelling in from Wigan; but in the morning peak at least as many people alight at Salford Central as at Victoria. The same is not quite true in the evening peak, but then I imagine many passengers will opt board at Victoria as they stand a better chance of getting a seat. My point is that, based admittedly on my anecdotal experience, there is ample demand at Salford Central to justify considerable investment.

Michael Ingall who owns Allied London, owners of Spinningfields recently tweeted a graph showing that Spinningfields was the most popular destination for train travellers in Manchester. Suggesting that more trains stopping nearby would benefit people.

https://twitter.com/michaelingall/status/1047941662532616192?s=21

Certainly on the odd occasions when I stay on the train from Central to Victoria I am surprised by quite how many people have got off.

Chrisyd said:

Michael Ingall who owns Allied London, owners of Spinningfields recently tweeted a graph showing that Spinningfields was the most popular destination for train travellers in Manchester. Suggesting that more trains stopping nearby would benefit people.

https://twitter.com/michaelingall/status/1047941662532616192?s=21

Certainly on the odd occasions when I stay on the train from Central to Victoria I am surprised by quite how many people have got off.

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When I have used Salford central in the peaks- The platforms are packed. There is loads of apartments being built in the area and chapel street has had millions spent on it. There is even a computer mock up of how the station looks with five platforms, Just look for Salford central redevelopment.

Mathew S said:

I can only speak from my own experience travelling in from Wigan; but in the morning peak at least as many people alight at Salford Central as at Victoria. The same is not quite true in the evening peak, but then I imagine many passengers will opt board at Victoria as they stand a better chance of getting a seat. My point is that, based admittedly on my anecdotal experience, there is ample demand at Salford Central to justify considerable investment.

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faltskog36abba said:

When I have used Salford central in the peaks- The platforms are packed. There is loads of apartments being built in the area and chapel street has had millions spent on it. There is even a computer mock up of how the station looks with five platforms, Just look for Salford central redevelopment.

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2 platforms should be able to support 6tph. The station needs a face lift and opening on Sundays since May was long overdue.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/salford-central-connection-to-liverpool-line.101007/ according to posts in this thread the extra platforms would be for Chat Moss and chord services. Platforms 1 and 2 would support existing services with 3-5 for services to/from the chord and Chat Moss. Only a Burnley - Airport and maybe Chester - Leeds could stop under current plans unless TPEs services are made even more complicated by adding stops at Salford Central. Funding is reliant on a shake up of services through the station.

notlob.divad said:

Equal with Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool Central, Liverpool James Street. Now if only they would call Moorfields properly as Liverpool Moorfields there would be a run of 5.

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Unless they changed the signs when they tarted it up, it's just "James Street".

Bletchleyite said:

Unless they changed the signs when they tarted it up, it's just "James Street".

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Still James Street on the station signs

An event today showed one of the shortcomings of the Ordsall Chord and the complex layout around Ordsall Lane Jn generally.
I was on a Manchester Airport-Newcastle service on the chord towards Victoria, when we came to a halt after the fancy bridge and before the junction with the Chat Moss route.
Parked on the westbound Chat Moss line at the signal for Ordsall Lane Jn was a Drax-Liverpool biomass train (empties), clearly visible from our train.
Unfortunately it fouled our route towards Salford Central, so it was a case of waiting for something to move.
From RTT, things had been stopped for 15 minutes or so, with nothing crossing Ordsall Lane Jn (maybe towards Salford Crescent was open).
Just as it got embarrassing, with the conductor saying we would be stuck until the freight train moved, everything unlocked and we went on our way.
Apparently there was some track problem towards Eccles which was being investigated.
However it seemed to come very close to a complete log-jam around Ordsall Lane, with trains backed up on multiple routes.
Quite a vulnerable spot I think.
The conductor did hid best to inform and entertain, saying it was lucky we had been stopped in such a "spectacular location".
He's right really. Apart from the impressive railway features, the forest of high-rise buildings in the area is indeed spectacular.
The tower cranes along the railway through Manchester and Salford just seem to be multiplying by the week.

If I remember right, the empty Drax trains to Liverpool were originally planned to use the same route as the loaded ones, avoiding Victoria and Salford. After a period of a few months, that was changed to what we have now with the empties clogging up central Manchester and causing the sort of problem you witnessed today. So, why was the routing changed? I can see that there would be reduced mileage and therefore cost, but are there really enough paths through Vic for them?