Northern Rail guard camera/filming during ticket inspection?

johntea · 8 Jan 2019

I noticed this evening whilst a Northern Rail guard was coming down the train carrying out a ticket inspection they were holding a mobile phone in their hands that was very obviously on the camera / video recording screen.

Could they potentially take a photograph or film an argumentative passenger that didn't have a ticket? (this is more a theoretical question)

I know the emergency services have body cameras but I've never seen a train guard come down the train with the potential ability to photograph or take a video in such an obvious fashion!

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Bungle965 · 8 Jan 2019

johntea said:
I know the emergency services have body cameras but I've never seen a train guard come down the train with the potential ability to photograph or take a video in such an obvio

All guards on Virgin have the ability to wear body cams should they wish to do so.
Sam

LowLevel · 8 Jan 2019

johntea said:
I noticed this evening whilst a Northern Rail guard was coming down the train carrying out a ticket inspection they were holding a mobile phone in their hands that was very obviously on the camera / video recording screen.

Could they potentially take a photograph or film an argumentative passenger that didn't have a ticket? (this is more a theoretical question)

I know the emergency services have body cameras but I've never seen a train guard come down the train with the potential ability to photograph or take a video in such an obvious fashion!

They could and do. They are as entitled as anyone else to take photos or film on a phone (though their employer may advise against it in case it further inflames a situation) and an increasing number of traincrew and revenue protection staff are also being issued bodycams as well. It's amazing how people doing wrong hate being filmed in the process :lol:

I once came across a passenger taking a photo of me so it works both ways. It turns out, given I'm no shrinking violet and and just came out and asked them why, in a nice enough manner, that they had taken a fancy to me in my nice cheap uniform and sent a photo to a friend to that effect. I nearly fell on the floor laughing and couldn't meet their eye for the rest of the journey.

js1000 · 9 Jan 2019

I believe railway staff can use body cameras for their own protection but can only retain footage if they have been abused/threatened/assaulted. Otherwise the footage should be automatically deleted after the shift. I believe that's the rule but would be good to get someone to confirm that. Such an arrangement strikes a fair balance between both protecting railway staff and passengers data protection rights.

Hadders · 9 Jan 2019

They should be using a company issues phone for this purpose. I hope it wasn't a personal phone they were using as this would be an issue.

DarloRich · 9 Jan 2019

johntea said:
I noticed this evening whilst a Northern Rail guard was coming down the train carrying out a ticket inspection they were holding a mobile phone in their hands that was very obviously on the camera / video recording screen.

Could they potentially take a photograph or film an argumentative passenger that didn't have a ticket? (this is more a theoretical question)

I know the emergency services have body cameras but I've never seen a train guard come down the train with the potential ability to photograph or take a video in such an obvious fashion!

Body cameras are issued to on train staff. Perhaps this person wants such equipment issuing to them and was trying to make a point

LowLevel said:
They could and do. They are as entitled as anyone else to take photos or film on a phone (though their employer may advise against it in case it further inflames a situation) and an increasing number of traincrew and revenue protection staff are also being issued bodycams as well. It's amazing how people doing wrong hate being filmed in the process

I once came across a passenger taking a photo of me so it works both ways. It turns out, given I'm no shrinking violet and and just came out and asked them why, in a nice enough manner, that they had taken a fancy to me in my nice cheap uniform and sent a photo to a friend to that effect. I nearly fell on the floor laughing and couldn't meet their eye for the rest of the journey.

should have pulled them aside for a further discussion and exchange of personal details

gray1404 · 9 Jan 2019

johntea said:
I noticed this evening whilst a Northern Rail guard was coming down the train carrying out a ticket inspection they were holding a mobile phone in their hands that was very obviously on the camera / video recording screen.

Could they potentially take a photograph or film an argumentative passenger that didn't have a ticket? (this is more a theoretical question)

I know the emergency services have body cameras but I've never seen a train guard come down the train with the potential ability to photograph or take a video in such an obvious fashion!

Contact Northern and request a copy of the footage as you are on it. See what their reply is.

jokes

swj99 · 9 Jan 2019

js1000 said:
I believe railway staff can use body cameras for their own protection but can only retain footage if they have been abused/threatened/assaulted. Otherwise the footage should be automatically deleted after the shift. I believe that's the rule but would be good to get someone to confirm that. Such an arrangement strikes a fair balance between both protecting railway staff and passengers data protection rights.

Just a question arising from this. If you record video footage of an interaction, how long would you personally wish to retain that footage as evidence in case an allegation was made against you later ?

I use dashcams in both of the cars I regularly drive, but I don't routinely save the footage, and as seems to be the norm with these things, the oldest video files get overwritten first, once the memory card becomes full.
However, if anything out of the ordinary happens whilst out on the road, then I might take the card out and copy the files to a computer. If for example I witnessed an accident, then obviously I'd copy the video files relating to this in case they were needed later.
I acknowledge that as a private individual the rules relating to the rentention of such footage differ from those which apply to an organization.
But going back to the main point, how long would you keep any footage before dedicing to delete it ?

As has already been mentioned, I've also noticed some people tend to behave differently once they become aware they are being recorded. If you ever watch those Russian car crash videos, you'll probably have noticed the cash for crash scammers immediately get back into their crumpled car once they realize the bus or truck they've just 'brake checked' has a dash cam fitted.

Islineclear3_1 · 9 Jan 2019

If I've nothing to hide; wouldn't bother me.

sheff1 · 9 Jan 2019

LowLevel said:
It's amazing how people doing wrong hate being filmed in the process

Indeed. The guard attempting to charge a peak fare for an off peak journey (unstaffed station, no TVM) was most put out when they realised the interaction was being filmed.

mafeu · 9 Jan 2019

Might it have been to take picture of QR code on m-tickets ?

gray1404 · 9 Jan 2019

Good point. Do they use an app to check Saveaways on smart cards in the Merseyside area? I've noticed them just accept the card and not bother checking it. I think its a requirement for the customer to still carry their receit too for some reason.

221129 · 10 Jan 2019

It would have been a ticket checking app. It scans the QR code on tickets and railcards and tells you the details.

shredder1 · 10 Jan 2019

I welcome railway staff who would like to film me while I`m travelling on trains.
The following guidelines are designed to help you to have a safe and enjoyable experience. Please print them out and take them with you when you are filming me

Before you go film me
When you arrive at my seat, please let me know, possibly through my receptionist who will be sat at the side of me, so she can go about her duties without concern about why you are there.

On the train
Act safely and sensibly at all times. Stay clear of the platform edge and stay behind the yellow lines where they are provided. Be aware of your surroundings.

Do not:

climb on any structure or interfere with platform equipment
obstruct any signalling equipment or signs which are vital to the safe running of the railway
wear anything which is similar in colour to safety clothing, such as high-visibility jackets, as this could cause confusion to passengers
gather together in groups at busy areas

Please try to avoid peak hours: Monday to Friday 6:00 – 10:30 and 15:30 – 19:30.

nuts & bolts · 10 Jan 2019

mafeu said:
Might it have been to take picture of QR code on m-tickets ?

Almost certainly, and also validates Smart cards.

185 · 10 Jan 2019

johntea said:
I noticed this evening whilst a Northern Rail guard was coming down the train carrying out a ticket inspection they were holding a mobile phone in their hands that was very obviously on the camera / video recording screen.

Sure this wasn't the ticket machine's issuing device?

Did you see the screen showing camera footage?

Most firms use some form of a phone as the main PDA device, with a separate printer.

Virgin do indeed have bodycams, but not Northern guards.

Mojo · 10 Jan 2019

221129 said:
It would have been a ticket checking app. It scans the QR code on tickets and railcards and tells you the details.

Is the correct answer. The guard wasn’t filming anyone.

johntea · 10 Jan 2019

Since when have Northern been scanning QR codes on tickets / railcards? As I say it is the first time I've seen it that is all

Bungle965 · 11 Jan 2019

johntea said:
Since when have Northern been scanning QR codes on tickets / railcards? As I say it is the first time I've seen it that is all

I had not realised that Northern guard's up until now had the ability to check QR codes, instead they simply look at the ticket ticket itself and move on.
Sam

221129 · 11 Jan 2019

johntea said:
Since when have Northern been scanning QR codes on tickets / railcards? As I say it is the first time I've seen it that is all

Probably around the same time as us so a good six months or so. But not everyone will use it.

RPI · 11 Jan 2019

Probably as others have said it's a ticket checking app, at GWR we have an app called clipper that is on our work phone and uses the phones camera to read the barcode

plymothian · 11 Jan 2019

Sorry, off topic but it gets my goat, the codes printed on tickets are AZTEC codes, not QR codes.

johntea · 23 Mar 2019

So these seem to be a lot more widely used now by Northern guards, it seems they are using some sort of app to scan the codes on any tickets presented by mobile (e/m ticket) passengers.

It does seem to be a bit of a pain for the guard however trying to scan them successfully when the train is bouncing about all over the place!

najaB · 23 Mar 2019

johntea said:
It does seem to be a bit of a pain for the guard however trying to scan them successfully when the train is bouncing about all over the place!

21st Century technology:0 Pacer:1.

Northern Rail guard camera/filming during ticket inspection?

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