I hope they name one after Club Penguin.If I recall correctly, the LNWR informally called it the penguins due to the front yellow panel looking like a beak (source). I would not be surprised if they started using names associated with penguins.
I hope they name one after Club Penguin.If I recall correctly, the LNWR informally called it the penguins due to the front yellow panel looking like a beak (source). I would not be surprised if they started using names associated with penguins.
Not even a grudging acknowledgment of Vivarail's success after years of knocking the project, Paul? It's beaten the 769 into service too.
PinguIf I recall correctly, the LNWR informally called it the penguins due to the front yellow panel looking like a beak (source). I would not be surprised if they started using names associated with penguins.
as for the northern 14x/15x combos' the 769 is the best solution for sure,once they get it up and running.
it's got a place....with 153's going out of service this is a fairly decent replacement on sparse lines, but not ones with interconnect to mainline.
for mainline use then I think we need to be looking at a modular 2/3 car 18-20m,90mph capable unit as a minimum(769 is reportedly testing at 87mph so 80mph in service on diesel,100mph under the wires.)
Thanks for your thorough review and photos!
Absolutely brilliant review @Bletchleyite You have me pumped to be reunited with my childhood stock when I go up to the Vale in a few weeks. Very thorough, honest and appears to be unbiased.
A few more photos. Love the nod to the original "obstructing the doors causes delay and can be dangerous".
And amused by the Delay Repay forms given the timekeeping today
Might I add that the mug shot was a lovely touch.Cheers
Might I add that the mug shot was a lovely touch.
Fair point Paul. I do hope these trains are successful - after all, nobody wants passengers travelling on crap and unreliable trains, and there seem to be one or two niche markets where they might work. Whether they have been or will be a commercial success for the developers remains to be seen.After all those "said years", in that time how many fully operational units have they now produced to run in commercial service?
Been on one yet?This is potentially my least favourite unit on the rails today.
Just three units (230003-005), two running the service and one spare if I recall.How many of the 230s are planned to be in use with LNWR?
Bletchleyite, I really appreciated your review of the 230s. They sound like they will be an interesting thing to try out one day, which is only all that likely to be if I re-discover the fun of visiting required stations again. Not terribly likely I'll make the cross-country trip over otherwise!
Never say never though, things are always subject to change! With the 230s now entering service, this means I've no longer the honour of having cleared the LNWR fleet. That on its own means I'll have to make an effort, hmm...
Just three units (230003-005), two running the service and one spare if I recall.
Cheers
There are also some additional 319s to get if you didn't get those as Thameslink units (I believe LNR now have all the lovely /2s), and then the 350/4s and Aventras coming up...
There are 3 230s, 2 in service at any given time plus a spare.
Aventras? I'm going to need a class number here I'm afraid!
730 possibly, though I'm not quite sure? They aren't due for a few years yet, but will replace the 350/2s and add capacity.
I think those units are being used as demonstrators for the technology; indeed I believe 002 is the battery hybrid unit, so probably won’t enter service with a TOC any time soon. Don’t forget there’ll be the 5(?) TfW units entering service later this year if I recall, but also here in the Midlands, the class 196s for the Hereford/Shrewsbury services.I assume 230001 and 230002 are floating around somewhere and will, eventually, enter service somewhere?
I think those units are being used as demonstrators for the technology; indeed I believe 002 is the battery hybrid unit, so probably won’t enter service with a TOC any time soon. Don’t forget there’ll be the 5(?) TfW units entering service later this year if I recall, but also here in the Midlands, the class 196s for the Hereford/Shrewsbury services.
anyone know which services these are running today
OK, so in the end I managed Ridgmont and back... sadly the crossover isn't allowed for passenger service so track bashers needn't be jealous, though I've got a photo of the unit crossing it which must itself be pretty rare!
Overall I would say I was positively impressed. Generally a good job has been done on the conversion but it is still possible to tell what it was - no attempt has been made to hide that.
So some thoughts:
So to sum up - needs a few minor tweaks but otherwise perfectly suited to the purpose. I reckon TfW should get themselves one more (or maybe two) to dedicate to the Conwy Valley and brand up in a similar manner, ideally a 3-car. Overall a good job, I think I'm more impressed with this than I have been with many other new launches.
- Build quality generally good with no rattles at all (though an odd up and down bounce at a certain engine revs). However, a few specific build issues do exist - you can tell it's "coachbuilt" rather than mass produced (some panel fit is a bit random) and there was the issue mentioned upthread of a missing gangway handle which fell off earlier. Also I noted that the anti vandal film wasn't quite 100% on one of the windows.
- Seating is ironing board style but is a different type of seat by a different manufacturer, I think similar to the Renatus 321s. Certainly entirely suited to the purpose to which it is being put, and more comfortable than the regular "ironing board" due to having a contoured rather than flat base. Moquette rather than flat cloth in a classy grey with green highlighting. Perhaps a little close to the sidewall (though there is a spacer). Legroom excellent in the airline seats (partly due to some clever niches in the back which unlike many such designs are actually where a typical tall male's knees go rather than in the middle) but a little tight in the facing ones. Overall verdict - better than the 150 or 153 by some margin, and TBH far better than the Class 800 too, not that that takes much doing, though not quite as good as a 350/1.
- I don't *think* they actually do have aircon (ref comments above) but the existing forced-air ventilation system they had on the Tube. TfW have specced it on theirs though. Staff did mention it being a little warm earlier on. I do wonder if they might end up fitting hoppers to the "small" windows where the doors were.
- Talking of windows, those small ones are a bit odd (like portholes but with a sloped frame so you can't rest your arm on it) but alignment is as good as you're going to get with such a strange layout - it's certainly been thought about and not forgotten.
- Lighting not as harsh as the photos seem to suggest. About the same as, though slightly whiter than, a Class 350. LED "fake tubes" I think.
- Bog (yes, I did use it given the long delay) is the two-door module used in the 319s but with a small modification which means one could, were a seated performance necessary, sit on it without clouting knees on the sink. The tap was a bit powerful, though, and has caused a bit of a puddle which has escaped to the saloon. Stickers on the outside are a good touch, avoiding it feeling obtrusive in the centre of the saloon like the similar layout does on SBB FLIRTs. I reckon stickers on the inside would be good though.
- Gangway door setup really odd. Basically the existing doors have been retained with new handles (one of which has fallen off as noted) and an air-powered pushbutton release has been added. I assume this was for PRM compliance, but it's a really odd setup and I don't know how much money it's saved. Doors don't close automatically and the handle must be operated to close them, so I reckon this will need fixing or they'll be permanently banging back and forward.
- Door operation is really, really slow - like worse than a 350 slow. This will need some changes and is almost certainly one of the causes (there were, it seems, several) for losing time today. I know they slowed it down deliberately, but I think it does need speeding up a little. Conventional guarded operation is being used as expected (with 3 guards today - two in training I think!) including opening the local door first, which combined with the slow doors means it's about 15-20 seconds from stop to release. This will need sorting out if there is to be a real gain here. Given the short trains which are never longer than the platform, I wonder if a SWT-style approach could be used, with no need to step out?
- The actual buttons are low on the inside and high on the outside which is strange.
- Side facing seating will allow for effectively unlimited cycle carriage, but there's no dedicated bike space, just a wheelchair one by the bog which curiously has no proper backrest.
- Not noisy at all, though you can tell it's a DMU when idling. Once above 20mph or so, it just sounds like a Merseyrail EMU or similar, with the transmission noise (apparently that's what classic EMU traction motor whine mostly is!) being the only thing that is audible. With the short vehicles giving a very certain "clickety clack" over the rail joints I could have closed my eyes and remembered being on a 507 through Kirkdale Tunnel in the 90s...
- New style front lighting is fitted (i.e. "3 the same") but not *that* bright.
- A general spacious feel - but not surprising as they are quite wide.
- Credit to Mr Jessup (who I know I've criticised in the past) for the "local facts" interior etc, it does look quite good. I really think branch lines thrive on local interest and association, and the dedicated nature of these units allow for this. Perhaps a nice addition would be, once they are named (if they will be), some relevant photos on the outside like the promotional 350 liveries?
- No overhead luggage racks but space between some seat backs, and a trolley case wouldn't really block the very wide aisle. Not that big luggage is common on this service.
- Acceleration good - and I'm told that one of the reasons for the delays is that it's an engine out on one coach (the one with the bog - I was sitting in the other one, so it won't have influenced my view on noise levels), so with that fixed it should be well up to Class 350 standards, and if the slow door issue can be sorted could mean a few minutes easily lopped off the timetable compared to the 153.
- Sockets with USB at the new seats, just USB at the "ex-Tube" seats.
- For those who like me like putting their foot on the heating conduit, it is square so you can. It's also quite small so doesn't get in the way at all.
- The panels below the windows have a pattern which is a bit computer-esque - a nice nod to the Park?
Some photos below including my ugly mug! (@DarloRich will now know who to avoid on the 0713...)
Superb review had me gripped well done excellent piece of writing.
Re the EMU esque whining you mentioned (transmission?), is it the sound which is like an electric motor sort of turning over which can be heard when a 323 idles at stations? It sometimes goes completely silent on a 323 in the station and then this motor starts turning like a car engine but electric style? Not sure if you were talking about that or the sound when an electric motor sort of kicks in when an EMU is starting to move? I realise the 230 is a DMU but on youtube sounds strangely like an EMU!
I think the operators have probably made a wise choice using these on the Vale line rather than the Leamington to Coventry and Nuneaton shuttles after reading your review. No overhead racks may have been an issue with connections down there, as well as no aircon and some passengers would presumably be travelling inter-regional distance with connections at Coventry, Leamington and Nuneaton onwards. Also a 23 metre length of coach would probably be more beneficial on Coventry shuttles if it were to be a 2 car vs 2 car 230.
The gangway door description was interesting. So theres like a manual handle and an electric push button? What happens when you push the button, does it turn the handle and the door is released and pushes outwards to walk through? Again I do wonder whether that would have been suited to the Coventry services although I guess no real reason why it shouldn't be other than the door style sounds a little old fashioned/manual vs a conventional DMU such as the 172.
Seating is ironing board style but is a different type of seat by a different manufacturer, I think similar to the Renatus 321s. Certainly entirely suited to the purpose to which it is being put, and more comfortable than the regular "ironing board" due to having a contoured rather than flat base. Moquette rather than flat cloth in a classy grey with green highlighting. Perhaps a little close to the sidewall (though there is a spacer). Legroom excellent in the airline seats (partly due to some clever niches in the back which unlike many such designs are actually where a typical tall male's knees go rather than in the middle) but a little tight in the facing ones. Overall verdict - better than the 150 or 153 by some margin, and TBH far better than the Class 800 too, not that that takes much doing, though not quite as good as a 350/1.
I don't *think* they actually do have aircon (ref comments above) but the existing forced-air ventilation system they had on the Tube. TfW have specced it on theirs though. Staff did mention it being a little warm earlier on. I do wonder if they might end up fitting hoppers to the "small" windows where the doors were.
Door operation is really, really slow - like worse than a 350 slow. This will need some changes and is almost certainly one of the causes (there were, it seems, several) for losing time today. I know they slowed it down deliberately, but I think it does need speeding up a little. Conventional guarded operation is being used as expected (with 3 guards today - two in training I think!) including opening the local door first, which combined with the slow doors means it's about 15-20 seconds from stop to release. This will need sorting out if there is to be a real gain here. Given the short trains which are never longer than the platform, I wonder if a SWT-style approach could be used, with no need to step out?
Not noisy at all, though you can tell it's a DMU when idling. Once above 20mph or so, it just sounds like a Merseyrail EMU or similar
Acceleration good - and I'm told that one of the reasons for the delays is that it's an engine out on one coach
A general spacious feel - but not surprising as they are quite wide.
No overhead luggage racks but space between some seat backs, and a trolley case wouldn't really block the very wide aisle. Not that big luggage is common on this service.
Credit to Mr Jessup (who I know I've criticised in the past) for the "local facts" interior etc, it does look quite good. I really think branch lines thrive on local interest and association, and the dedicated nature of these units allow for this. Perhaps a nice addition would be, once they are named