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If all of the supermarket chains in the UK except for Aldi and Lidl disappeared, would you care?

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mmh

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I have an Aldi (reasonable size) very slightly closer to home than Tesco (quite large).

I occasionally pop into Aldi to remind myself just how bad it is.
1) The cashier may be cheerful but throws the next customers shopping at me whilst I am still packing - it is very tempting to pack it into my bags as free groceries!

If you've got more than a handful of items, use the packing shelf to pack. It's what it's there for and why the checkouts don't have a "bagging area". It speeds everything up for everyone.

2) They don't do fresh bread, only plastic-bagged sliced.
3) They don't do fresh anything else either, other than fruit and veg. All vacuum packed or frozen for cooked meats and fish.

I see that as an advantage of the "discounter" supermarkets. They're there for the bulk of your pre-packed basic shopping, then you might go to a specialist or independent shop. Far better for the high street.
 
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Bletchleyite

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I don't fly much these days, but I'd never consider a "premium" class on a short haul flight. I go from Gatwick to Jersey 2 or 3 times a year, and the only consideration is which of BA or Easyjet are cheaper at the time. BA business class? Completely pointless waste of money. I can survive half an hour without a "free" cup of tea and "meal."

What I will pay for is extra space - 2+1 seating on a train, for instance. I'm willing to pay for that in proportion to the additional space taken up, which is about 50% extra on top of the relevant Standard fare on a train, but on London Northwestern there should be a discount as there's less space, not more.

I am not in the remotest bit interested in freebies and they will not influence my decision. Indeed, I'd rather they weren't there as it could be a quid or two off the price.
 

underbank

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Supermarkets are all simply fighting for market share. Store have been opening at record rates but the bubble will burst. Theres only so much money go around. My better half insists on shopping at different stores to ensure we are getting the best prices. However I strongly disagree with this policy. By the time I've driven between 3 stores I've spent the saving made on the shopping on fuel.

We go to four different supermarkets, but do it on rotation, never the same day or even the same week. One week it's Asda, next week it's Tesco, etc etc. The BOGOF and multi offers usually last a few weeks in each store, so we get them in whichever store they are in that month. (All the supermarkets do the same multi offers on the big brands, just at different times). Because of the way we do it, the week we shop at Sainsbury, we have a fresh cheesy baguette and Mr Kipling treacle tart (the other stores don't sell them) - then the week we go to Morrisons, we get a ready cooked chicken, etc. We'd never go to more than one supermarket on each shopping day.
 

Bevan Price

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I do most of my shopping at local shops or markets. I go to Morrisons about every 6-8 weeks, usually when I also need petrol. Fruit & veg. are generally considerably cheaper at markets and the town centre greengrocer than at any supermarket I have used, and have the advantage that they are not pre-packet. You can choose just as much as you need. At supermarkets, the contents of pre-packed fruit & veg. are generally far too big for one person.

The only problem I find with some of the local shops is that they use paper bags for unsuitable contents, such as soft fruit & some salads - paper bags collapse if you use them for anything a bit "damp".

Not tried Aldi or Lidl - partly because the local Morrisons is easier to access, being on the edge of the town centre.
 

Cowley

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There was a Leos in nearby Hayle, the largest supermarket in that small town before it closed.
Did you ever have a Normans store down there?
We had them at Budleigh, Exwick and Broadclyst, and there may have been others in the Southwest.
They’d make a modern Lydl or Aldi look like Harrods.
 

Busaholic

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Did you ever have a Normans store down there?
We had them at Budleigh, Exwick and Broadclyst, and there may have been others in the Southwest.
They’d make a modern Lydl or Aldi look like Harrods.
Can't say I recollect the name.
 

Techniquest

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Just read this thread, I found it interesting as a retail employee. Given I work in one of the Big 4, I understandably voted yes in the poll on this thread!

Our online prices are the same as in-store, and loose stock drives me up the wall. It takes so much longer to pick that stuff than it does the pre-packaged stuff! I often find the quality of pre-packed produce is better than the loose stuff too, not always of course. Certainly loose stuff is less consistent in size, some days loose onions (for one example) can be huge and the next day they're tiny. Same with carrots, and to a lesser extent parsnips. Loose gala apples do look better quality than the pre-packed ones I must admit, and certainly more of the size apple I would rather buy. I knew there was something I meant to get this morning...

We're expecting to be free of single-use carrier bags in my store by the end of August, and we can't wait. We'd have them gone already if we had our way, but customers complain when we run out of bags for their shopping. As it stands, we estimate no carrier bags will save us around an hour (I kid you not!) per average shift. You really would be surprised how long it takes to open up the bags and get them set up and ready for picking! So yeah, we're going to be much more productive when the bags go, although I think we're having to keep the clear bags for meat and loose produce. Which I'd also love to see be eliminated, but until FSA change their requirements on that I don't see it happening.

As for my own personal supermarket situation, unsurprisingly I do a lot of shopping in my store. Aldi is less than 2 minutes' walk away, Tesco Express is 5 minutes the other way, Sainsburys 5 minutes away (due to the road layout not really being ideal for pedestrians), a larger Tesco 7 minutes away, Morrisons 15 minutes away and Asda about 12 minutes away. I do have Lidl about 16 minutes away as well, and Waitrose almost 10 minutes away. Not to mention the other little shops of course.

I have been known to frequent Aldi semi-regularly but that depends what I need. I don't do much shopping in any one place, as I live on my own and I shop accordingly. Besides, with all that choice in my area it would be daft to do just one shop a week. With working in a supermarket 5 days a week, it's easier anyway to do 3 or 4 small shops a week.

Aldi and Lidl don't really suit me that well. I like that stuff is fairly cheap (although even without discount some stuff is cheaper in Asda than Aldi) but I don't like the quality of some of their stuff. Their toastie bread used to be 44p, 11p cheaper than Asda, which made it so much better to get from Aldi. Since it went up to 50p, the value is not there and I swear blind the quality's dropped. For a 5p difference, and better taste, even on a day off I'd rather do the walk to/from Asda and get my bread from there. Similar with coffee. I used to love the Aldi gold roast coffee, excellent value at £1.89 (or thereabouts) for a 200g jar. However, like the bread I swear blind the quality has gone down since they reduced it in price from £2.05. Asda's version is £2.24 currently for a 200g jar, so quite a significant difference in price. However, even though I love my quality coffee, I'm having to be tight-fisted currently and am buying Asda's Smart Price coffee for 77p. A 100g jar of coffee just about lasts me a week, and like today when I ran out of coffee I could have gone to Aldi for it. However, it was deemed worth it to walk to Asda and get my cheap coffee as I'm on a tight budget this month. There's also a FAR better range of coffee in Asda than Aldi, and that is what matters a lot to me. I've also grown keen on the Italian style coffee with the Extra Special branding. £1.88 for a 100g jar but oh my days it's just so nice! Try getting something like that in Aldi...

Same thing with biscuits. There's not much in the world more enjoyable than putting the feet up with a good quality coffee and a packet of chocolate digestives. Aldi do them for 42p (I think!) and Asda do them for 44p. Which one do I go for, when I'm not on a crazy fitness improvement plan that is? Asda's ones to me taste just that bit better, I can't quite put my finger on it but there's just that bit of extra quality going on. Or is it just the packet is easier to open with Asda's biccies? I really could devour the living daylights out of a packet of those right now...

I do like the packing shelf thing in Aldi though. When I go there I always only have enough to fill a basket so I chuck it all in there as it gets scanned then pack it into the backpack at my leisure. Much more sensible way of doing things, as I like to just go in, get my stuff and get out again. If my Aldi did self-scan I would actually use it more often. There are times when I fancy one of their double pepperoni and chorizo stuffed crust pizzas in their frozen range, super ideal for those evenings when you really want something quick and easy to eat but really filling and enjoyable. However if that's all I'm going in there for, then I don't want to wait behind people with a trolley overloaded with stuff, and of course that sort of shopper usually takes ages to move! Self-scan checkouts are extremely useful in my eyes, I inevitably make a beeline for them unless I have age-restricted items in Tesco. Which is usually more efficient to queue at a normal till for those.

I saw a lot of discussion about Morrisons in places on this thread, while they've got better they're still my least favourite supermarket of the lot.

My point is that I'd be absolutely tamping to live in a world of just Aldi or Lidl. I mean you might as well rid the world of all takeaways apart from Dominos and Pizza Hut while you're at it...
 

175mph

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Just read this thread, I found it interesting as a retail employee. Given I work in one of the Big 4, I understandably voted yes in the poll on this thread!

Our online prices are the same as in-store, and loose stock drives me up the wall. It takes so much longer to pick that stuff than it does the pre-packaged stuff! I often find the quality of pre-packed produce is better than the loose stuff too, not always of course. Certainly loose stuff is less consistent in size, some days loose onions (for one example) can be huge and the next day they're tiny. Same with carrots, and to a lesser extent parsnips. Loose gala apples do look better quality than the pre-packed ones I must admit, and certainly more of the size apple I would rather buy. I knew there was something I meant to get this morning...

We're expecting to be free of single-use carrier bags in my store by the end of August, and we can't wait. We'd have them gone already if we had our way, but customers complain when we run out of bags for their shopping. As it stands, we estimate no carrier bags will save us around an hour (I kid you not!) per average shift. You really would be surprised how long it takes to open up the bags and get them set up and ready for picking! So yeah, we're going to be much more productive when the bags go, although I think we're having to keep the clear bags for meat and loose produce. Which I'd also love to see be eliminated, but until FSA change their requirements on that I don't see it happening.

As for my own personal supermarket situation, unsurprisingly I do a lot of shopping in my store. Aldi is less than 2 minutes' walk away, Tesco Express is 5 minutes the other way, Sainsburys 5 minutes away (due to the road layout not really being ideal for pedestrians), a larger Tesco 7 minutes away, Morrisons 15 minutes away and Asda about 12 minutes away. I do have Lidl about 16 minutes away as well, and Waitrose almost 10 minutes away. Not to mention the other little shops of course.

I have been known to frequent Aldi semi-regularly but that depends what I need. I don't do much shopping in any one place, as I live on my own and I shop accordingly. Besides, with all that choice in my area it would be daft to do just one shop a week. With working in a supermarket 5 days a week, it's easier anyway to do 3 or 4 small shops a week.

Aldi and Lidl don't really suit me that well. I like that stuff is fairly cheap (although even without discount some stuff is cheaper in Asda than Aldi) but I don't like the quality of some of their stuff. Their toastie bread used to be 44p, 11p cheaper than Asda, which made it so much better to get from Aldi. Since it went up to 50p, the value is not there and I swear blind the quality's dropped. For a 5p difference, and better taste, even on a day off I'd rather do the walk to/from Asda and get my bread from there. Similar with coffee. I used to love the Aldi gold roast coffee, excellent value at £1.89 (or thereabouts) for a 200g jar. However, like the bread I swear blind the quality has gone down since they reduced it in price from £2.05. Asda's version is £2.24 currently for a 200g jar, so quite a significant difference in price. However, even though I love my quality coffee, I'm having to be tight-fisted currently and am buying Asda's Smart Price coffee for 77p. A 100g jar of coffee just about lasts me a week, and like today when I ran out of coffee I could have gone to Aldi for it. However, it was deemed worth it to walk to Asda and get my cheap coffee as I'm on a tight budget this month. There's also a FAR better range of coffee in Asda than Aldi, and that is what matters a lot to me. I've also grown keen on the Italian style coffee with the Extra Special branding. £1.88 for a 100g jar but oh my days it's just so nice! Try getting something like that in Aldi...

Same thing with biscuits. There's not much in the world more enjoyable than putting the feet up with a good quality coffee and a packet of chocolate digestives. Aldi do them for 42p (I think!) and Asda do them for 44p. Which one do I go for, when I'm not on a crazy fitness improvement plan that is? Asda's ones to me taste just that bit better, I can't quite put my finger on it but there's just that bit of extra quality going on. Or is it just the packet is easier to open with Asda's biccies? I really could devour the living daylights out of a packet of those right now...

I do like the packing shelf thing in Aldi though. When I go there I always only have enough to fill a basket so I chuck it all in there as it gets scanned then pack it into the backpack at my leisure. Much more sensible way of doing things, as I like to just go in, get my stuff and get out again. If my Aldi did self-scan I would actually use it more often. There are times when I fancy one of their double pepperoni and chorizo stuffed crust pizzas in their frozen range, super ideal for those evenings when you really want something quick and easy to eat but really filling and enjoyable. However if that's all I'm going in there for, then I don't want to wait behind people with a trolley overloaded with stuff, and of course that sort of shopper usually takes ages to move! Self-scan checkouts are extremely useful in my eyes, I inevitably make a beeline for them unless I have age-restricted items in Tesco. Which is usually more efficient to queue at a normal till for those.

I saw a lot of discussion about Morrisons in places on this thread, while they've got better they're still my least favourite supermarket of the lot.

My point is that I'd be absolutely tamping to live in a world of just Aldi or Lidl. I mean you might as well rid the world of all takeaways apart from Dominos and Pizza Hut while you're at it...
I would have thought that because of the overheads of running a brick and mortar store, especially a supermarket, the online prices would be cheaper?
 

Techniquest

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I would have thought that because of the overheads of running a brick and mortar store, especially a supermarket, the online prices would be cheaper?

I'm discussing home shopping online orders, which if were done for cheaper online than in store would be grossly unfair!
 

Busaholic

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I'm discussing home shopping online orders, which if were done for cheaper online than in store would be grossly unfair!
I agree. In fact I'd go as far as to say that those who shop in store subsidise the online people, just as those of us who still buy newspapers and magazines are the only reason that they still exist for the freeloaders to browse online.
 

Bletchleyite

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I agree. In fact I'd go as far as to say that those who shop in store subsidise the online people, just as those of us who still buy newspapers and magazines are the only reason that they still exist for the freeloaders to browse online.

I don't know about subsidise, but I understand Tesco certainly make less profit on an online order than the same in-store one, i.e. the £2-£5 cost of picking and delivery doesn't cover its cost.

The latter is probably not true, as the majority of the income from a newspaper is from advertising, not from the cover price which barely covers the costs of distribution.
 

Mojo

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I would have thought that because of the overheads of running a brick and mortar store, especially a supermarket, the online prices would be cheaper?
Often supermarkets rely on ‘sensory shopping’ (eg. smells, feel, samples) to get people to buy products, as well as clever positioning of items and promotions instore that provides for bigger profits and encouraging to buy things they don’t really need. None of this is possible online. In order to accommodate the various timeslots, the companies are often sending out half empty vehicles. I would say that this is just some of the many reasons why online grocery shopping isn’t as profitable as instore, even with the delivery charge.
 

dgl

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Talking about Normans, there were branches on both Weymouth (Wyke Regis) and Crewkerne, both were a bit out of the way with the one in Crewkerne hidden in a small industrial estate.
 

takno

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I agree. In fact I'd go as far as to say that those who shop in store subsidise the online people, just as those of us who still buy newspapers and magazines are the only reason that they still exist for the freeloaders to browse online.
That hasn't really been true of newspapers for a while now - the cover price historically only covered about a third of costs anyway, and falling readership as well as collapsing print ad rates mean that the cover price struggles to cover the high distribution and retail costs of the paper edition. Most newspapers are making a loss overall just now, and would dump their print operations in a heartbeat if they weren't essential in providing credibility to the whole operation. The most successful approach right now seems to be the Guardian's online begging bowl model.

In terms of online grocery shopping though I suspect you're right for Sainsbury's and the like.
 

Techniquest

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Often supermarkets rely on ‘sensory shopping’ (eg. smells, feel, samples) to get people to buy products, as well as clever positioning of items and promotions instore that provides for bigger profits and encouraging to buy things they don’t really need. None of this is possible online. In order to accommodate the various timeslots, the companies are often sending out half empty vehicles. I would say that this is just some of the many reasons why online grocery shopping isn’t as profitable as instore, even with the delivery charge.

So not true with not being able to promote stuff on a supermarket online ordering website. I haven't used such a service for a very long time, as I have zero need for it, but I do recall it being an attack on the visual senses for sure. Certainly wasn't easy to miss an offer!

Half-empty vehicles? You're joking right? Part of why it's so unprofitable to run a home delivery grocery shopping service is the amount of people involved in the process. I think an online order is handled by 4 different people on average, sometimes less and sometimes more. The wages bill for such a service is huge and can vary dramatically from one day to the next.

Not charging an adequate amount to cover delivery is another profit drainer. Some orders can be over 25 miles away, yet they can be charged just a couple of quid for delivery!
 

175mph

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So not true with not being able to promote stuff on a supermarket online ordering website. I haven't used such a service for a very long time, as I have zero need for it, but I do recall it being an attack on the visual senses for sure. Certainly wasn't easy to miss an offer!

Half-empty vehicles? You're joking right? Part of why it's so unprofitable to run a home delivery grocery shopping service is the amount of people involved in the process. I think an online order is handled by 4 different people on average, sometimes less and sometimes more. The wages bill for such a service is huge and can vary dramatically from one day to the next.

Not charging an adequate amount to cover delivery is another profit drainer. Some orders can be over 25 miles away, yet they can be charged just a couple of quid for delivery!
Yet I remember reading somewhere that Tesco blamed online ordering for home delivery as one of the reasons why they ended 24 hour opening of some of their stores.
 

DarloRich

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Half-empty vehicles? You're joking right? Part of why it's so unprofitable to run a home delivery grocery shopping service is the amount of people involved in the process. I think an online order is handled by 4 different people on average, sometimes less and sometimes more. The wages bill for such a service is huge and can vary dramatically from one day to the next.

that is just a poor porcess surely? Why would you not strip this back to two: Picker/packer and van man
 

Techniquest

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Yet I remember reading somewhere that Tesco blamed online ordering for home delivery as one of the reasons why they ended 24 hour opening of some of their stores.

That would not surprise me. The Tesco here that was open 24 hours was well out of town, one that not even this fitness freak would consider walking to (it's about a 6 mile return trek along a busy north-south route). If it had been the city centre store open 24 hours it may have been a different story. My store that I work in opens 24 hours, although outside the Christmas season it's hardly worth doing. However we're now the only place open between 11pm and 6am across the city, so I doubt it will change any time soon.

that is just a poor porcess surely? Why would you not strip this back to two: Picker/packer and van man

Doesn't work that way. In a perfect world it would, but in reality the process works like this: 1 person to print off and attach labels to the plastic totes on the trollies until the job is done (adding plastic bags when necessary), 1 to pick it (potentially more than 1 per customer order depending on commodity ordered), 1 to downstack it into order at the back, 1 to load it onto a van and 1 to drive it. Sometimes the downstacker and loader are one and the same, just depends on staff availability.

So yeah, it isn't as simple as it might appear. One customer order we handle can easily weigh in at 250+ items, which doesn't sound like much but trust me it is. My sector is expanding to take on even more customers, adding extra work for all of us and with all the changes coming up we're expecting to have even higher performance targets. I'm not personally bothered as even on a bad day I can smash target without trying, but it depends what they change it to.

What I'm getting at is that it is a much more complicated system than people would believe. We rely on many different links in the chain, and when those links are broken issues arise.

One day, things will evolve to the point humans aren't needed for grocery shopping. However this is a long way off yet!
 

Bletchleyite

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that is just a poor porcess surely? Why would you not strip this back to two: Picker/packer and van man

The delivery process also isn't optimised. When I have a delivery I usually pretty much tip the boxes out on the worksurface and/or kitchen floor and sort once they've gone. From speaking to the staff, they are generally quite complimentary about this, and say that most people are not as accommodating and usually keep them waiting around while they load their fridge, freezer and cupboard.

It strikes me that they'd save an absolute packet if they changed it so that either you were left with the crates (charged their cost, refunded on your next order or when returned to the store) or designed a multi-use bag similar to the larger squareish plastic type you get in store that would "line" the crate so you'd simply take that out and again keep it, returning it for re-use with the next order. That way each stop would take no more than a couple of minutes.

Even if you order with single-use bags, you get very little in each one so no time is saved, not to mention the extra 40p and environmental downside. But a larger bag, one or two per crate, designed to fit, would work wonders.
 

Bletchleyite

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That would not surprise me. The Tesco here that was open 24 hours was well out of town, one that not even this fitness freak would consider walking to (it's about a 6 mile return trek along a busy north-south route). If it had been the city centre store open 24 hours it may have been a different story. My store that I work in opens 24 hours, although outside the Christmas season it's hardly worth doing. However we're now the only place open between 11pm and 6am across the city, so I doubt it will change any time soon.

Isn't the 24 hour argument that you'll be heating and lighting it anyway as staff are shelf-loading, and so all you need is one member of staff to look after the self checkouts and a security guard? Even with only those two, presumably minimum wage or near to it, staff added, does it *still* not wash its face? Or are shelves no longer loaded overnight?
 

Techniquest

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Isn't the 24 hour argument that you'll be heating and lighting it anyway as staff are shelf-loading, and so all you need is one member of staff to look after the self checkouts and a security guard? Even with only those two, presumably minimum wage or near to it, staff added, does it *still* not wash its face? Or are shelves no longer loaded overnight?

No no, we have night staff in to replen still. The jury is out amongst us lot whether it's worth being open all night, outside peak shopping season anyway.
 

Busaholic

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Isn't the 24 hour argument that you'll be heating and lighting it anyway as staff are shelf-loading, and so all you need is one member of staff to look after the self checkouts and a security guard? Even with only those two, presumably minimum wage or near to it, staff added, does it *still* not wash its face? Or are shelves no longer loaded overnight?
I think you're right - my local Tesco still opens 24 hours a day, in theory anyway: so highly annoying to call in at 1 a.m. at the end of a long journey home to find a notice fixed to the door 're-open at 2 a.m'. My tea went without milk that night!
 

underbank

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Doesn't really matter whether the supermarket makes a profit from all night opening nor home delivery. They have to do it because their competitors do it. It would be business suicide not to do it. It's all about market share and sales volumes. Supermarkets make their money from retro-bonuses etc which are based on volume sales. If they lose market share, they make less profit, not just on the sales lost, but also on missing bonus targets, so a double whammy. It's not just the home delivery and all night shopping, there are some stores that barely make a profit at all, but they're worth subsidising to keep the magic market share and overall group volumes.
 

mmh

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Doesn't really matter whether the supermarket makes a profit from all night opening nor home delivery. They have to do it because their competitors do it. It would be business suicide not to do it. It's all about market share and sales volumes.

But that's not what they do, they don't open all their branches 24 hours and in areas with multiple rival supermarkets it's quite common for only one to be open 24 hours.

For example Llandudno Junction and Bangor Tesco stores are 24 hours, Llandudno and Bangor Asda stores aren't.
 

dgl

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I do believe though, that when Tesco were one of the only players in the home delivery business (when they charged ~£5 delivery) they were the only one who could make it pay.
 

Baxenden Bank

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If you've got more than a handful of items, use the packing shelf to pack. It's what it's there for and why the checkouts don't have a "bagging area". It speeds everything up for everyone.

But then I'd have to transfer a few items at a time from the checkout to the bagging area, because they won't let me keep the basket to put things back into, to then take to the bagging area. I could use a trolley instead of a hand-basket but that would slow me down chicaning through the other shoppers to do my shopping in as little time as possible!

I see that as an advantage of the "discounter" supermarkets. They're there for the bulk of your pre-packed basic shopping, then you might go to a specialist or independent shop. Far better for the high street.

I'd rather do all my shop in one go. It would cost £4 on the bus to get to the nearest high street, out of town is within walking distance so costs nothing.
 

Bletchleyite

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But then I'd have to transfer a few items at a time from the checkout to the bagging area, because they won't let me keep the basket to put things back into, to then take to the bagging area. I could use a trolley instead of a hand-basket but that would slow me down chicaning through the other shoppers to do my shopping in as little time as possible!

I do find the basket policy to be beyond bizarre. If they think people will nick them, put a security tag on them.
 
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