SWR Strike Action: Strikes every day in December except 1st, 12th, 25th & 26th

irish_rail · 5 Nov 2019

Journeyman said:
I think you're incredibly naive if you think SWR's customers are going to support this. It is, in fact, an extremely strong argument in favour of DOO, which operates safely all over the network already, and has done for nearly 40 years.

We live in an entirely different world now, where a lot of things are automated. I'm not saying anyone should lose jobs over this, but I think it's blindingly obvious that staff are better deployed on stations or on revenue collection. SWR suburban guards never leave the cabs.

All this is going to do is prove to be gold dust to any Tory candidate campaigning in SWR territory, and it'll probably win them a few seats they might otherwise have lost. You might want to think about what the consequences of that will be for average working people.

Spot on , Johnson will be rubbing his hands with glee at this, exactly the kind of thing that will drum up support for the tori*s. The RMT really are their own worst enemies.

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Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

irish_rail said:
Spot on , Johnson will be rubbing his hands with glee at this, exactly the kind of thing that will drum up support for the tori*s. The RMT really are their own worst enemies.

I sometimes wonder if many people on the left of the political spectrum actually want to win elections. I think if the Tories disappeared tomorrow, they wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

irish_rail · 5 Nov 2019

I think there is a genuine risk that when the Tories win the election next month , and we leave the EU, workers rights will be decimated and unions will probably be clamped down on lose all power. It's sad really as there are plenty of unions (aslef for example) that don't strike at the drop of a hat and have worked hard to improve terms conditions and pay.
It's all going to be lost when Johnson wins his majority. So sad that people will sacrifice the country just to achieve the precious brexit.

ag51ruk · 5 Nov 2019

bussnapperwm said:
I honestly agree with you and, as a Union member for all 11 years I've been employed, I'm supporting the RMT in the quest to protect their members rights.

Genuine question - what rights are they fighting for? As understand it, SWR have already committed to keeping a guard on every train

TH172341 · 5 Nov 2019

theking said:
I watched a couple of SWR train's at Clapham Junction and the station duties are painfully slow with a guard, must have been about 1/5 of the actual stop time were passengers alighting and boarding the rest was waiting for the guard to open the doors and then dispatch duties.
If you come from doo land you really notice the difference no wonder the companies want drivers to do the doors.

Dispatch duties cannot be rushed and until you actually do it, trust me, you will take your time to focus and concentrate on what you are doing. Ultimately if you make a mistake, you could seriously injury someone or worse. Safety comes before time keeping and if it ends up taking a couple of extra seconds to do the train safety check or door release because you are unsure over something, so be it. To be honest, if the infrastructure was actually able to cope with the ever higher number of trains, a few extra seconds dwell would not be as important.

For those saying it is just pressing a button to close the doors, it is more than that.

Brissle Girl · 5 Nov 2019

Kite159 said:
The ones who will be impacted are the low paid workers whose job can't be worked from home, for example a cleaner/caretaker. (Or using a local example, workers in the bank note factory next to Overton station). The ones who can't necessary afford to pay for a taxi if there is no trains, and won't be able to afford to not attend work.

Agree, but remember my reply was in the context of a statement that big city institutions will be badly affected and will be contemplating legal action.

Hopefully those able to WFH will do so, and so ease the pressure on those services that are able to run, although I accept that on past form, SWR will not be able to provide complete route coverage, so inevitably there will be a lot of people affected.

nedchester · 5 Nov 2019

Journeyman said:
I think you're incredibly naive if you think SWR's customers are going to support this. It is, in fact, an extremely strong argument in favour of DOO, which operates safely all over the network already, and has done for nearly 40 years.

We live in an entirely different world now, where a lot of things are automated. I'm not saying anyone should lose jobs over this, but I think it's blindingly obvious that staff are better deployed on stations or on revenue collection. SWR suburban guards never leave the cabs.

All this is going to do is prove to be gold dust to any Tory candidate campaigning in SWR territory, and it'll probably win them a few seats they might otherwise have lost. You might want to think about what the consequences of that will be for average working people.

I consider myself left of centre (and have been a union rep and on strike myself) but completely agree with this. DOO has operated safely for nearly 40 years. The horse has already bolted on this one. The railways are massively safer than they were when DOO was first introduced. The role of the second person on the train needs to change.

Ladder23 · 5 Nov 2019

Why is it a big must have for guards on SWT, when other toc's etc don't have them

SWRtrain_fan · 5 Nov 2019

ag51ruk said:
Genuine question - what rights are they fighting for? As understand it, SWR have already committed to keeping a guard on every train

I'm also confused about this. It's absolutely ridiculous that the RMT have once again selfishly decided to strike and disrupt so many people's journeys when SWR have repeatedly guaranteed a guard on every service. A 27 day strike.

yorkie · 5 Nov 2019

WA_Driver said:
DOO on London Underground is slightly different than DOO on the SWR network!

Without getting into expressing any views on this, I would point out that a comparison could perhaps be drawn with Scotrail (Glasgow area), GTR, Chiltern (London- Banbury/Oxford), much of Greater Anglia (in the London & SouthEast area) and GWR in the Thames Valley area, along with Southeastern (incl. High Speed services), rather than London Underground.

Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

yorkie said:
Without getting into expressing any views on this, I would point out that a comparison could perhaps be drawn with Scotrail (Glasgow area), GTR, Chiltern (London- Banbury/Oxford), and parts of Southeastern (incl. High Speed services), rather than London Underground.

Fair enough - and all of those operate safely and successfully.

swt_passenger · 5 Nov 2019

Ladder23 said:
Why is it a big must have for guards on SWT, when other toc's etc don't have them

Nobody knows - I asked a few posts ago, it’s the only London inner suburban network with guards AFAICT. It’s probably because they have some of the oldest trains - that still need proper guards - the problems always been kicked into the long grass...

ComUtoR · 5 Nov 2019

Journeyman said:
Fair enough - and all of those operate safely and successfully.

How many safety related incidents happened on Southeastern Metro compared to Mainline and HS1 ? The West Wickham incident is something that DOO operators are seriously concerned about.

Antman · 5 Nov 2019

Kimi said:
Do RMT pay strike pay?

This is a real hard time of the year for their members if not.. how many could seriously survive Christmas without almost all their pay..?

Or, will they be signing up for Uber en masse or some other gig-economy jobs to pay their way?

surely the point is that they live in the SE, where we are told it’s too expensive for normal workers, but are able to vote to take a month off. Hardly rallies with the lefts made up rhetoric about essential workers and food banks, does it ?

This is manna from heaven for many constituencies where the conservatives risked losing the seat to the Lib Dem opportunist jokers. And leaving December 12 as a work day just shows up just how much labour are in the unions pockets. Which is no better for the people than the Tory buffoons.
I can afford to not use the train and will ask my reports to work from home unless they have meetings. They’ll genuinely be over the moon....

Joe Paxton · 5 Nov 2019

pompeyfan said:
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-announces-27-days-of-strike-action-on-swr/

Anyone like to make some informed speculation on the liklihood of 27 strike days in a single month actually happening? (And yes, I appreciate I'm asking an inherently oxymoronic question!)

Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

ComUtoR said:
How many safety related incidents happened on Southeastern Metro compared to Mainline and HS1 ? The West Wickham incident is something that DOO operators are seriously concerned about.

Merseyrail, anyone? PTI incidents are a risk whether there's guards present or not.

Moderating team · 5 Nov 2019

This thread appears to have become another debate about the rights/wrongs of DOO, which has been discussed in many threads previously and has reached the same level as Brexit in both its toxicity and in the way the supporters or detractors will not change their mind no matter what is said by either side.

As such the Forum Staff are not willing to allow every thread which is touched by DOO to simply become a reheated version of the threads which have gone before.

This thread will remain locked for the time being but may be reopened when further information comes to light; please do get in touch with us directly as and when this happens. If we do unlock this thread we ask that it used for posting updates about the dispute i.e. announced strike dates, strike day timetables or the progress of any talks between the parties.

Every possible aspect of DOO has been discussed, at great length, on other threads and it will not take long to find these threads if anyone really wishes to read what has been said before on that subject.

ainsworth74 · 6 Nov 2019

For the record SWR have released the following statement:

Wednesday 06th November 2019

A South Western Railway spokesperson said:

"We are extremely disappointed that the RMT union has once again called for their members to take disruptive industrial action. The deliberate targeting of services up to, and during, the Christmas period is typical of the lack of concern the RMT continue to have for our customers.

"The RMT has always said it wanted us to keep the guard on every train. That is what we have offered as part of a framework agreement if the RMT work with us to agree a method of operation for our new trains which fully utilises the new technology to improve safety, security and accessibility as well as day-to-day performance. Instead the RMT appear purely focussed on keeping control of train doors in a misguided attempt to hold power over the industry.

"Whilst we have shown commitment to the role of the guard by introducing over 80 additional guard roles since the start of our franchise, the RMT do not have the long-term interests of either our customers or our colleagues, including their members, at the heart of their actions.

"We remain committed to finding a solution that will help us build a better railway for everyone. We will do everything we can to keep customers moving during strike action."

Link

If there are any other updates (i.e. outcomes of further talks, changes to strike days, suspension of strike action, etc) please do report this post (or the one above) and we'll look to reopen the thread.

Edit: for fare / journey planning advice / queries, please see this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...nning-advice-during-swr-strike-action.195472/

ainsworth74 · 26 Nov 2019

Brief update on this the RMT and SWR are entering talks mediated by ACAS tomorrow. As per RMT statement:

RMT and SWR agree to ACAS talks in guards' safety dispute tomorrow

An RMT Spokesperson said;

"Following a further exchange of correspondence both RMT and SWR have agreed to talks through ACAS tomorrow.

"The RMT team will be led by General Secretary Mick Cash and we believe that there is a deal there to be done and the union will work tirelessly to secure that objective."

Link

ainsworth74 · 28 Nov 2019

Sadly the outcome of the talks is not positive. As per RMT statement (please feel free to bring to my attention statements from the other parties if any are available):

ROLE OF THE GUARD & EXTENSION OF DOO – SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY

As you know, talks have taken place this week with the company under the auspices of conciliation service Acas. Your negotiators entered these talks as an exchange of correspondence between myself and the company over last weekend indicated that there could be common ground that a resolution may be found to resolve this current and long-standing dispute. With 27 days of industrial action facing them, it was your union’s belief that management would be looking to end the impasse and offer something tangible that would be acceptable to your and your colleagues and allow the strike action which commences on 00.01 hours on Monday 2nd December to be suspended.

At the talks, management gave no indication whatsoever that any positive outcome for our members in this dispute could be found. In fact, far from it, as the words they offered were worse than the company’s position prior to the talks taking place. The offer would have resulted in Guards having no responsibility for train despatch, which is a reversal from the proposals put on the table by the company two months ago when Guards retained a major role in this process. The proposals also result in a change to the Guards and Commercial Guards’ Job Descriptions. Previously, there were no changes to JDs.

A copy of the final proposals from the Acas talks is attached.

Your National Executive Committee has considered the matter and has rejected the company’s latest position as it in no way meets the aspirations of you and your colleagues and the objectives we have set out throughout the course of this dispute.

Therefore, the strike action shall continue as management have given nothing that can in any way resolve this matter to your union’s or, more importantly, our members’ satisfaction.

You and your colleagues have shown great solidarity and support for your union and for each other during this dispute. That solidarity and support is not taken lightly by me, your other national officers or by your National Executive Committee. Your strength and courage to see justice done in this dispute is admirable. You and your colleagues have shown time and time again throughout this time that you are willing to make sacrifices to achieve your principled aim. I call upon all our members involved in this dispute to show this courage once again and support your union through the 27 days of strike action.

Thank you for your support up to now and for your continued support through the December strikes.

Link

ainsworth74 · 28 Nov 2019

And SWR's statement on the latest development:

"We have done everything we can and more to meet the RMT’s outdated demands with our promise of a guard on every train, and a safety critical role for that guard. What we are not prepared to compromise on is the much needed modernisation of the service with improved performance, safety and customer service that our new fleet of modern suburban trains will vitally deliver for customers. We know our passengers will welcome over 10 million more passenger journeys a year arriving on time and this much needed improvement to our service is too important to compromise.

"Throughout negotiations we have tried repeatedly to find ways meet the RMT’s aspirations. However, every time we find a way forward on one point the union has moved the goalposts by changing its position. They said at the outset this was about keeping the guard on the train, that is exactly what we have offered. They said they wanted a safety critical role for that guard, that is what we have offered. Unfortunately it is clear to us that the RMT is unclear on what this dispute is about and intent on striking no matter what. We know the impact these RMT strikes will have on our passengers and we want to be clear that we have done everything we can to try and avert the strikes and meet RMT’s antiquated and changing demands."

Further information can be found at: southwesternrailway.com/strike

Link

SWR Strike Action: Strikes every day in December except 1st, 12th, 25th & 26th

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