Ah - I see now. So what I was caught up in on Monday was a combination of the strikes and the engineering works. That explains it - thanks.
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SWR Longest Strike - December 2019
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Ah - I see now. So what I was caught up in on Monday was a combination of the strikes and the engineering works. That explains it - thanks.
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Although even with engineering works there would have been more services running to London from Woking. There were busses replacing every regular train service but with the strikes had the works not taken place the trains wouldn't all have been running. For instance, there has been no Guildford to Farnham train service all strike long, but close Guildford for engineering works and there's a bus running to replace the train that couldn't...
theironroad
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Bearing in mind that the letter in question was sent last November, when SWR have barely started talking to drivers about DCO/DOO, then that would probably be a risky strategy.
Iirc southern already had the dco/doo deal done with drivers before they issued the ultimatums.
Suppose if they wanted to play really hard ball (after dco/doo agreed with drivers) they could adopt the advice in the steer report from a few yards ago and just make them all redundant , forget about change to contracts.
Seems ages ago now but as I recall there was no deal with Southern Drivers till late 2017 with the new deal implemented 1st Jan 2018. However the forced contract change (Conductors becoming OBS') happened during 2016 with the roll out of DOO completed by 1st Jan 2017
SOUTHERN Conductors continued striking after the driver deal with the last strike as late as March 2018. Since then RMT sought recognition in representing the OBS Grade. A number of Southern services still have Guards and I presume it was only them striking or possibly former Guards who became OBS staff. You barely noticed the strike towards the end with almost an 100% service running
HamworthyGoods
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But SWR drivers already have DOO (P) in their agreement! Was introduced into their contract in SSWT days, never been actioned but it’s in there.
The RMT cannot be blamed for the refurbished trains running into difficulties.
If they were to give compensation, it couldn't all be claimed back from the RMT guards, if some of it was for stuff not by the RMT.
I guess they could solely only give compensation for the strike and nothing else, in order for it not to be liable by SWR.
43096
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I never made any connection between the strikes and SWR’s numerous failed franchise promises, but pointed out that passengers have had the strikes to contend with on top of all the other failures.
When the guards are striking, why would they expect them to look at their rosters but not do any compenacy test? Is it because the guards wouldn't do this due to being on strike?
Would a compromise with the RMT, to do compenacy tests during the strikes, have been acceptable to the RMT? It would have avoided the revised timetables on Thursday and Friday.
Still tomorrow is the start of the new timetable when the two evening fast trains from Surbtion are no longer timed to connect with the fast trains to Portsmouth at Woking, since the trains to Portsmouth will depart a minute earlier. This may be far more of an inconvenience to myself and others than this strike, and this is for the long term. The strike only lasted one month.
That isn't the fault of the RMT and I'd be surprised if the trains to Portsmouth actually depart Woking on time, given their are often times when they don't already but maybe the planners know something I don't. Still if they do, they have just encouraged another person to fairly regularly run across Woking station. This is outside of the strike so I'll leave it there.
I do appreciate you didn't but as you replied to my post about losses incurred, I just wanted to point out they can't come after the RMT for stuff they didn't cause.
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HamworthyGoods
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A strike is a strike, which means staff have withdrawn their labour regardless whether that’s working a train or doing assessments etc.
Why would the RMT be fussed about avoiding revised timetables on Thursday and Friday when the result of the strike has already been revised timetables for best part of a month.
I suspect the timetable change will make no difference to your journey as in both cases it should be quite easy to make the 4 minute connection provided you are in a sensible part of the train to make it an easy interchange.
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theironroad
Established Member
Well they can go ahead tomorrow and start running trains doo when the driver's have been trained and the kit provided then.
However the reality is that no swr drivers will accept doo if there is not an offer on the table commensurate with what most other drivers in the south east. After April, swr drivers will be paid signif less than pretty much all surrounding TOCs.
The ensuing strikes would be just a old fashioned pay claim in that situation.
Even when the government get their minimum service level provisions in place, a swr drivers strike or even work to rule with no overtime would see the current guards dispute seem like a luxury as the timetable would be decimated to unworkable.
Robertj21a
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Hopefully, the legal requirement for TOCs to operate a minimum level of service will enable the paying customer to still travel.
On that basis, why would staff want to check their roasters whilst on strike though? A strike is a strike. Why should they care if they don't know when their shift ia, the first day after the strike?
It may be easy but it's no longer an official connection so it won't show up online.
Is there away of search for 3x heascodss online? I'm curious to see which trains aren't running but might run
Are there many contingency drivers?
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They’ll have a copy of the agreed official roster for their depot, so ones turn on any given date is easily determined, thats in most circumstances considered the employee’s responsibility to keep track of, as far as I’m aware,
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Fair enough but they could refuse to check it whilst on strike, even if it's a quick thing to do.
My comment stemmed from the fact Andy Millors said guards could not do competency tests, medicals etc. etc. whilst on strike but would be expected to check rosters. It was as if SWR were banning guards from doing such tests whilst on strike.
Goldfish62
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But surely it's an individual's responsibility to check what shift they're on beforehand. If they don't check while they're on strike and then don't turn up at the right time on their first day of work wouldn't they be in danger of being sent home without pay?
Erm.....we are already paid significancy less than all TOCs. But yet the only TOC that have safety critical guards. So I’m happy to be significantly paid less
No! If drivers on SWR strike. The network would shut down completely. Even if you factored in the drivers that would work during strike action
theironroad
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Well yes swr drivers are paid less than many, but was taking into account the harmonisation of gwr areas from April/may.
I think when the ballot comes, you'll find many of your depot colleagues will vote differently if money and doo are dangled.
bb21
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Of course it is. Any other suggestion would be daft.
Normal disciplinary procedures apply.
This is the same impression I got from speaking to some drivers recently. It is far from certain what would happen if given a massive pay rise.
Don’t need to. I believe they have access to the rosters on their phones through ‘My Intergrale’
Of course. Every driver & every depot are different. There are drivers that would accept McDonald’s vouchers as a pay deal & there are drivers that believe for us to go DOO(P) we should be on 75k a year mark
If DOO is already in the contract as has been stated, what is there to accept? Didn’t the Gatwick Express case essentially show drivers can’t refuse DOO where it’s already in their contracts?
theironroad
Established Member
There was some difference there in that they were already driving 10 cars as a matter of routine , the issue that ended up in the courts was the extension to driving 12 car routinely which hadn't happened before.
Whether or not doo becomes an issue that has to be tested in the courts on SWR is pretty much a side issue.
If swr force through doo via the courts, assuming they don't want to increase salaries , the vast majority of swr drivers (wa_driver and a few others excepted) will support industrial action for a pay claim.
I doubt that it will get to that though.
Indeed but if a guard wished to do tests but not guard trains, wouldn't South Western Railway be interested in them doing that rather than saying no? Perhaps it's just the way I'm reading what Mr Millors is saying rather than what he meant by what he has written.
HamworthyGoods
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If someone is taking industrial action they will not book on duty.
Any work activity takes place after booking on so it is irrelevant if it’s guarding a train, sitting spare, doing assessments etc if on strike they are instructed by the union not to book on duty.
So what Mr Millors was actually saying is that if you take industrial action and strike, you won't be able to do your tests because to do that you have to book on and not strike. Just that he didn't mention the booking on part in his letter so it came across to me as if they wouldn't let them doing any assesemts.
To be honest I wasn't aware you needed to sign on to do tests. I just turn up for work and record the hours I do.
nuts & bolts
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This letter is similar to previous ones sent out at each strike date
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Indeed, in fact fewer and fewer contingency OBSs were needed by the last strike in which I think everything ran that didn't have guards (so no MKC for instance), even Hove shuttles. Doesn't seem yet like SWR are moving in that direction yet. Although the Southern strikes last ~18 months so this is likely to just be the middle.
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