Britain’s relationship with the EU post Brexit.

Sad Sprinter said:

Leavers didn’t vote leave for tangible benefits, they voted leave out of gut instinct of identity.

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Bantamzen said:

Perhaps you need to re-read what you quoted, "Britain has only enforced state aid four times"? So, who made those decisions? The UK government. Who could have made more? The UK government. Another example of blaming the EU for domestic decision making.

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Sad Sprinter said:

Leavers didn’t vote leave for tangible benefits, they voted leave out of gut instinct of identity.

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Aictos said:

True but seeing as France, Germany etc have enforced state aid multiple times and the EU does have state rules about state aid, it seems that it's one rule for one and one rule for another.

As to blaming the EU for domestic decision making, who came up with those rules in the first place? Answer the EU so all countries who are part of the EU should abide by those rules as it's not a level playing field overwise.

Least the UK follows the rules...

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433N said:

So we could have jobs that are only open to UK citizens who have a Y chromosome and it isn't discriminatory ? (you may notice that this is also an 'accident' of birth)

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Bantamzen said:

No it isn't, the same rule applies, its just that the UK government doesn't use it.

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Aictos said:

So it’s fine for the UK to use state aid which tilts the playing field in our favour?

Unless I’m getting confused about the EU rules, that doesn’t seem to be cricket.

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Bantamzen said:

I'm really not sure what you are confused about, the EU allows state aid providing that it is agreed amongst members. That the UK has only used this 4 times is decision of the UK government, not the EU.

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furnessvale said:

Unless the other EU members refused permission for applications?

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433N said:

Those figures can be read in two ways :

Either

1. We are desperately eager to provide state aid but can't

Or

2. We don't want to give state aid and don't believe anyone else should either

They also debunk the 'fact' that no state aid is allowed by the EU which is disadvantaging us and impinging on our sovereign choices.

Of course, the Tory / right wing obsession with free markets means that (2) above is the most reasonable interpretation of those figures ... I'm sure that the current government will pretend that (1) is ... (and user Sad Sprinter is going to be sorely disappointed).

Ironically, recent Conservative governments have worshiped the economic ideas of an Austrian immigrant.

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Bantamzen said:

I'm really not sure what you are confused about, the EU allows state aid providing that it is agreed amongst members. That the UK has only used this 4 times is decision of the UK government, not the EU.

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Aictos said:

I thought it was frown upon for state aid to be used as it would give the country using it a unfair advantage over other members.

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Aictos said:

I thought it was frown upon for state aid to be used as it would give the country using it a unfair advantage over other members.

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Aictos said:

I thought it was frown upon for state aid to be used as it would give the country using it a unfair advantage over other members.

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Michael Gove confirms post-Brexit trade barriers will be imposed


De facto deputy PM says nearly all EU imports will be subject to checks from next year

Lisa O'Carroll Brexit correspondent
@lisaocarroll
Mon 10 Feb 2020 17.33 GMT

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Michael Gove has told businesses that trade with Europe they need to prepare for “significant change” with “inevitable” border checks for “almost everybody” who imports from the EU from next year.

In the first official confirmation that the government is going to impose trade barriers post-Brexit, he warned there would be checks on food and goods of animal origin, plus customs declarations and mandatory safety and security certificates required for all imports.

“You have to accept we will need some friction. We will minimise it but it is an inevitability of our departure,” he told delegates at a Cabinet Office event held in central London on Monday, entitled Preparing Our Border for the Future Relationship.

“I don’t underestimate the fact that this is a significant change, but we have time now to make that change.”

Gove, who as chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster is de facto deputy prime minister, also warned delegates it could take five years to get a smart border involving online processes up and running and said businesses had to be ready for the change next January, whatever the outcome of the next phase of Brexit negotiations.

“In questions and answers his officials talked of an ‘operational border’ from the beginning of 2021, which they said was laying the foundation for best borders in 2025,” said one delegate, who reported that Gove had warned the UK must be ready for the completion of Brexit on 1 January next year when the transition period ends.

Later the government issued an official update confirming checks on both imports and exports.

The update warned that the “policy easements put in place for a potential no-deal exit will not be reintroduced as businesses have time to prepare”.

The “easements” that will not apply include deferred VAT payments on imports, which the government had considered in a no-deal plan.

Echoing Boris Johnson’s comments in a speech last week, Gove spoke of pursuing a Canada or Australian-type deal, which EU trade commissioner Phil Hogan has said was “code for no deal” as the bloc does not have a deal with Australia.

According to attendees, Gove was also adamant that the government would stick to its vow to no longer follow EU rules that would allow it to minimise future barriers in cross-border trade.

“The only way in which you could avoid those customs procedures and regulatory checks would be if you were to align with EU law and if you were to align with EU law we would be undermining the basis on which the prime minister secured the mandate at the general election to affirm our departure,” he said.

However, Gove did seem to distance himself from recent comments by the chancellor, Sajid Javid, that suggested business should stop complaining about future trade barriers as they have known about Brexit since 2016.

Elizabeth de Jong, the Freight Transport Association’s UK policy director, said: “Gove put to rest Javid’s assertion that industry had plenty of time to prepare. It is encouraging for industry that he said he does not underestimate what needs to be done.”

She also raised concerns that the IT systems would not be ready until 2025. “We are naturally disappointed that the promise of frictionless trade has been replaced with a promise that trade will be as seamless as possible but not until 2025, with a more realistic but costly ‘make do and mend’ approach to be employed until then.”

Richard Ballantyne, chief executive of the British Ports Association, said: “We may not like what we are hearing, but if you get a clear message than you can plan.”

Jill Rutter, senior research fellow at UK in a changing Europe tweeted that the move will see a “massive increase in red tape”.


Gove’s address is the first official confirmation on the detailed border checks to come, something industry leaders particularly in car manufacturing and in agriculture have campaigned against.

He told the London event it was the government’s aspiration to make sure trading with the EU was “as smooth and trouble free as possible” but that “we also need to ensure that people are ready for the regulatory checks that will follow”.


He told them “it is the case there will be [sanitary and phytosanitary] checks” for those trading food or goods of animal origin.

“It is likely as is the case with [the Canadian trade deal] that there will be some physical checks of those products as well and it will be the case that we will almost certainly need safety and security certificates as well,” he said.

“It will be the case almost everybody who is exporting will need to complete customs declarations.”

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Doppelganger said:

Looks like the Just In Time Production lines in the UK are dead as of next year.
Oh and that red tape and bureaucracy they accused the EU of doing, there will definitely be less of that. Not.

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alex397 said:

^^ Why would any country make it more difficult for themselves to trade with their biggest and largest trading partners? What a bizarre country we live in. But it's ok, we've "taken back control" .....

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alex397 said:

^^ Why would any country make it more difficult for themselves to trade with their biggest and largest trading partners? What a bizarre country we live in. But it's ok, we've "taken back control" .....

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jon0844 said:

The key is to have something they want, not the other way around. All I ever hear is that the EU will bend over to do a deal because BMW want to sell us cars.

They can sell us cars still. We'll just pay more.

Now what do we have that they want so desperately and can't get from elsewhere?

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Howardh said:

Our tourists, or more specifically the wallets of the tourists rather than the tourists themselves. And the UK does likewise.

That would be true except the EU gets loads from elsewhere nowadays, China, Russia, former eastern Europe etc!

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Doppelganger said:

To be honest the British tourist isn't going to be missed. I know they aren't all the same but some of the louts (and I do mean louts) that travel to places like Budapest, Krakow or Prague already cause such a mess and have such a reputation, that despite the money they bring in isn't cutting it. The business have had enough, the locals hate it and the police don't tolerate it anymore either.

The British have very successfully managed to alienate themselves from the EU and I think the EU will be a better place for it. It's far better that people come to visit to embrace the culture, learn about the history and eat local food than rock up to a British pub and just get tanked up, something they can do just as well in Blackpool or Swansea.

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dosxuk said:

Friends working in the food industry have been fearing this announcement, as they predict it could take at least five years for new supply options to come on line, all the bureaucratic stuff to be dealt with and customers to become used to the new pricing. Until that lot happens expect shortages, lower quality produce and prices to rocket in line with supply and demand. Fun times!

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Brexit: EU Parliament makes tough demands for talks
By Adam FlemingBBC News, Strasbourg

The European Parliament has approved a tough opening position for talks with the UK on its future relationship with the EU.Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES

MEPs called on the UK to follow EU policies in a host of areas as the price for an ambitious free trade deal.

These range from chemicals regulation to climate change, food labelling and subsidies for companies.

This should be with "a view to dynamic alignment" - code for the UK adopting European rules as they are introduced.

The wide-ranging resolution also called for measures to ensure that Brexit does not cause gender discrimination, for a crackdown on tax havens with links to the UK, and for a joint UK-EU position at the upcoming UN climate conference in Glasgow in November.

How the EU's language has toughened up
It's an attempt to influence the detailed instructions for the EU's chief negotiator Michel Barnier - "the mandate" - currently being discussed by the European Commission and the governments of the EU's 27 member states.

It's also the latest example of the mandate being toughened up as it passes from institution to institution in the EU.

When Mr Barnier published a first draft in early February, there was no mention of alignment and definitely not the automatic kind.

Then a new version emerged that had been tweaked by diplomats from national governments.

MEPs were not willing to oppose the divorce deal, but will they be tougher when it's a free trade agreement that touches on Europe's values and social model?

For now the focus is on agreeing the EU's opening position to be finalised at a meeting of European ministers on 25 February. This is about the ambitions at the start, not the compromises at the end.

It's also about shaping the terms of the discussion with the UK before it's even begun.

MEPs and the entire EU know: if you don't ask, you don't get.

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Doppelganger said:

Wasn't this supposed to be the easiest deal in human history or something?

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