adrock1976
Established Member
Regarding the suggestions of the afternoon peak X1, could those journeys be formed straight from the afternoon school bus runs (assuming there are any in normal times pre and post Covid)?
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First Greater Glasgow
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Nope unfortunately only 1 school service left when the 404 goes in August. Would need to be extra journeys on already existing services which is why I'm unsure if it would work. That's why I suggested it with the 263/267. 263 could start from Burnbank/High Blantyre and the 267 could start right outside Blantyre depot
overthewater
Established Member
- Joined
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Does First actually operate any School buses?
Pretty sure there's 1 from Milton to Springburn but happy to be corrected if they got rid of it and I've forgotten
We'll have no further bickering, thank you 
We'll have no further bickering, thank you
I don't want any personally hence why I say exactly what I mean
Seen a Facebook comment from a Dumbarton councillor saying he has a meeting with First to discuss the possible options regarding the 208 and one of them involved rerouting the 1B to covering Silverton and Brucehill as part of the route on top of its current route. Not a bad idea tbh as it only adds a few mins on at most. Wonder how that would work on a Sunday though as the 1B covers the 206 route through Castlehill and the 208/218 is SPT tendered on Sundays too so there's already a service to Silverton
I do think as long as routes don't end up absolutely massive there's a case for route merging in places. Reliability is going to be a key in getting people back onto buses once lockdown eases further
I do think as long as routes don't end up absolutely massive there's a case for route merging in places. Reliability is going to be a key in getting people back onto buses once lockdown eases further
smtglasgow
Member
I understand why folk are upset about losing certain routes, but given that First have today said there is 'material uncertainty' about their ability to trade beyond the next 12 months, I reckon First Glasgow’s management team have bigger problems than trying to serve Silverton. We’re all pro-bus on here, so we should be very apprehensive about what happens in the next 12 months – after all most experts think we’ll have some sort of second wave in the autumn. The SNP have been very wary about getting too involved with buses – their Bus Bill last year was a bit meh – but might we see much more government involvement? They could call it the Scottish Bus Group!
Given what Firstgroup have said today I doubt they will be able to go much longer without getting involved or absolutely boosting funding for the foreseeable. It's becoming really messy really quickly.
They'll need to provide something to make sure the elderly and less able in particular don't get cut off and given that all of the cuts involve areas with a lot of elderly people or low income families so far it needs to be now
Your only reading what’s been put in the press. Also as has been said they have enough cash for at least the next 12 months.
Given how quick time passes these days 12 months really isn't that long and that's where my concern is. I've not even got around to reading the articles tbh I've just read on here. Can't stand the media personally
RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
The annual report states that the UK Bus division of FirstGroup made a near-£46m profit in the last financial year.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Hope I'm not venturing into the bickering territory (I've missed a bit here 
) but there are some simple economics here. You've got a service like the X1 that is busy at peak and demands a certain level of resource and with a one way flow in the morning (to the city) and in the evening. So lots of empty mileage AND off peak, there are few passengers. Not surprising when there are 4 trains an hour and you can get a day return for under a fiver. We can have all of the consultations and social media interaction in the world but it looks like a product whose lifecycle has reached the terminus. I remember commenting last time that if half the people who complained actually travelled, the service wouldn't be under threat.
Bus companies will run some journeys on a marginal basis; perhaps that evening bus about 1900/2000 that perhaps doesn't quite wash its face but it's good to maintain the overall passenger offering. However, Covid has just thrown everything in the air and services that are losing a boatload just will not survive with support.
) but there are some simple economics here. You've got a service like the X1 that is busy at peak and demands a certain level of resource and with a one way flow in the morning (to the city) and in the evening. So lots of empty mileage AND off peak, there are few passengers. Not surprising when there are 4 trains an hour and you can get a day return for under a fiver. We can have all of the consultations and social media interaction in the world but it looks like a product whose lifecycle has reached the terminus. I remember commenting last time that if half the people who complained actually travelled, the service wouldn't be under threat. Bus companies will run some journeys on a marginal basis; perhaps that evening bus about 1900/2000 that perhaps doesn't quite wash its face but it's good to maintain the overall passenger offering. However, Covid has just thrown everything in the air and services that are losing a boatload just will not survive with support.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Read the presentation and release on the company website rather than the media
I'd read anything before I dive into the media tbh
I don’t know much about shares etc but I believe they need to say they have enough cash for the next 12 months regardless of the situation they are in. I stand corrected on this.
On the subject of route merging, what services could be merged to save a bus or 2?
Might be a thing worth getting the colouring pens out for to see where savings really could be made. Also interesting to work out what could be cut. Obviously I've commented with a list already but it'll be interesting to see what stays and what goes
Might be a thing worth getting the colouring pens out for to see where savings really could be made. Also interesting to work out what could be cut. Obviously I've commented with a list already but it'll be interesting to see what stays and what goes
Jordan Adam
Established Member
If you want to reduce PVR then merging routes is perhaps not particularly the answer in Glasgows case. I think subtitle reductions on the higher frequency routes is a better way to go. For example the 9/9A (normally 5 minutes combined, 10 each) could be reduced to a 6 minute frequency or 12 mins each. I'd need to properly check but that would likely save a few vehicles without any real impact for regular users.
This has been mentioned on various sites many times but the 34A being axed with the 34 rerouted via QEUH and slightly reduced seems inevitable.
Yeah I could see those happening. That route with a 10/12 min frequency would probably work for the 34. Could see a 9/9A reduction along with the likes of the 3 and 6 too could probably work
Yeah that's always been a strange one. Think I've only used it up to there twice and I was the last person on it from Newmains Cross both times
Glasgowbusguy
On Moderation
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Could probly merge the 61 in to the 60 and the 2
34/A just simified with all bues going to govan (has already happened temporarily)
38s are ripe for consolidation
Could cut it to
38 baillieston via easterhouse via swinton
38 chryston
8 /90 might be s bit more awkward but surly its do able
2 /3 at least in the west end
adrock1976
Established Member
Regarding route merging, I remember the days between "Overground" and "Simplicity" that in the evenings, alternate journeys on some of the ex Overground routes were diverted over a small section of nearby quieter routes.
An example I remember is alternate journeys on the 9 (Drumchapel Station - Paisley/Linwood) being diverted to run via Alderman Road so as to cover that section of the 42 which went off earlier in the evening.
An example I remember is alternate journeys on the 9 (Drumchapel Station - Paisley/Linwood) being diverted to run via Alderman Road so as to cover that section of the 42 which went off earlier in the evening.
JumpinTrainz
Established Member
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Not sure what merging the 61 with the 2 and 60 would do. The 61 is a busy route on its own. The only affiliation it has with the 60 is that they both serve the Maryhill corridor. Other than that they go virtually different paths. As for the 2, it would need to be re routed to serve Sandyhills which would take it off Shettleston road? Don’t think that would work. I do think however there could be a little merge of the 46 with the 41 and the consider if the 38B is really needed.
ScotRail158725
Established Member
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the 2/60/61 arent mergable without significantly changing routes..
38 could see the 38B/E merged other than that nothing could really change
8/90 how would they merge? they would be really hard to merge without really significant changes
2/3 have completely different terminuses in the west end so again its not very logical
if any changes could happen it would be the 34/34a merging and a few frequency reductions such as the 6
smtglasgow
Member
I think Jordan got it right – the bulk of the reductions are going to come from frequency cuts. Pre-Covid, what was the PVR on a Saturday compared to Monday-Friday? Add in the withdrawn routes (and maybe sections of routes: Shotts?) and you must be looking at a reduction of 50+ vehicles (at least). Which isn't great, really.
In the investor presentation yesterday, they mentioned shallower morning and evening peaks.
Changes to peak services could be an interesting one. The 1s were every 3/4 mins at peaks and to be quite honest a lot of them ended up pretty full even when there was 3 or 4 together. If that was one of the services with lighter peak frequencies then it could be pretty problematic if you needed a specific 1 and not just any of them. I'm quite lucky were that despite the 1C being the ideal bus out of all of them the rest aren't a disaster in terms of walking distance. Seen it plenty of times where the 1C/1D even as double-deckers would be completely full by the time they've left Oswald Street
ScotRail158725
Established Member
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it wouldnt be main services peak frequencies that id be changing, id be changing frequencies of stuff such as the 46, 266
Yeah I'd do it that way too personally. 46 is an interesting one though because there's parts of that route where it's really busy when I've used it then there's others that aren't great. The 266 is pretty busy from Newmains but the Shotts end really isn't busy so that could go realistically. Could see services like the 3, 6, 34/34A dropping frequency even if it's just slightly