Euston to Victoria

heart-of-wessex · 18 Apr 2011

I've never had and Oyster and never will, all my trips around London have been major cranking/track scratching sprees and from what I've heard it's just easier to get a Travelcard than faff with an Oyster.

Also don't rely on the 73 to get you there in no time, I took it as an alternative to getting the Victoria line so I could see things...didn't realise you end up seeing the same shop front window for 10 minutes before the traffic moves a few meters and it grinds to a halt again! Took me well over an hour to get to the cross, though I would do the 73 again if I had a lot of time to kill

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TomJ93 · 19 Apr 2011

Seeing as I was late and it was relatively busy I wouldn't have left much time to buy 5 Oysters- let alone go to the hassle of returning five on the return.

I understand you guys feel I should get an Oyster, but I can't believe TFL would struggle so much to get me from Euston to Victoria on a reasonably priced paper ticket. 50p a minute that cost me! Bear in mind my Coventry to Lonson Euston cost £6!

Deerfold · 19 Apr 2011

TomJ93 said:
Seeing as I was late and it was relatively busy I wouldn't have left much time to buy 5 Oysters- let alone go to the hassle of returning five on the return.

I understand you guys feel I should get an Oyster, but I can't believe TFL would struggle so much to get me from Euston to Victoria on a reasonably priced paper ticket.

TfL don't struggle to do that - they deliberately try to make you not use a paper ticket by pricing it high - looks like it's not high enough for some people - despite the fact that your return journey is cheaper by Oyster even if you don't reclaim your deposit.

The Oyster vending machine (see http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=644386&postcount=13) is very quick. Getting 5 Oyster cards out of it would probably take under 2 minutes. How long did it take you to queue and buy your 5 tube tickets?

TomJ93 said:
50p a minute that cost me! Bear in mind my Coventry to Lonson Euston cost £6!

The bus only works out at a couple of pence per minute

You seem quite happy to comply with restrictive advance ticket restrictions to get a cheap fare. Why not for Oyster?

TomJ93 · 19 Apr 2011

5minutes. Getting them back would probably be harder. Why do TFL feel Oyster is better for them?

MikeWh · 19 Apr 2011

heart-of-wessex said:
I've never had and Oyster and never will, all my trips around London have been major cranking/track scratching sprees and from what I've heard it's just easier to get a Travelcard than faff with an Oyster.

You're abslutely right there. Oyster is designed for specific journeys, not roving around or bashing. If you 100% know that you will end up capping at a day travelcard then cut to the chase and get one. But if you want to make normal journeys then you'd be surprised how few PAYG cards actually get capped each day.

Deerfold · 19 Apr 2011

TomJ93 said:
5minutes. Getting them back would probably be harder. Why do TFL feel Oyster is better for them?

I don't understand why you'd take longer and pay more and then complain about it?

Oyster severely reduces the queues at Underground ticket machines/windows as most non-season ticket holders can just touch in and out instead of buying a seperate ticket.

It's not perfect (especially for some complex journeys) but for most it reduces hassle.

TomJ93 · 19 Apr 2011

I don't see why I should pay more! It's not like it saves TFL any money as far as I can tell.

bb21 · 19 Apr 2011

As far as I am aware, Oyster does save TfL money in that it allows the organisation to gather data that otherwise they would have to pay employees or a market research firm to carry out. You buy a Zone 1 single and the company has no way of knowing where you're going. Use an Oyster and TfL then has this mass of data which it can use for analysis of travel patterns and inform its planning for the future such as service levels. No data is ever free and Oyster is a nice little cheap way for TfL to get that. That is not considering other expenses saved such as the cost of manufacturing paper tickets, etc.

Why do you think that supermarkets like Tesco and Sainsbury's run a loyalty scheme?

So yes it is cheaper for TfL, considerably I may add.

island · 19 Apr 2011

MikeWh said:
Goodness me. For another quid you could have got an Oyster, made the trip and had 10p + £3 deposit left. Either cash that in, or keep it for next time when you'll only have to add £1.80 rather than another £4. Make two trips without handing the card back: Oyster £6.80, cash £8.00.

The deposit's £5 now unless you find one of the special machines, which slightly throws the numbers. But the logic is good.

MikeWh · 19 Apr 2011

I did think of stating that, but as these special machines had been mentioned before in the thread I just carried on that line.

TomJ93 · 21 Apr 2011

Surely you could use the data from the magnetic strip? For regulars, there is no incentive to use travel cards over oyster if it were the same price. Therefore the bulk of passengers who also bring in the most revenue as they travel regularly are still providing TFL with data. Do they really need to know about my break in Chichester so they can improve services on the Vic between Euston and Victoria incase I travel again?

I do understand your reasoning but from my point of view it just seems like someone on TFL towers is charging what they like because they can.

Though I did get to enjoy a door failure on the 2009 stock for my money! Jokes aside the new stock is very nice

Deerfold · 21 Apr 2011

TomJ93 said:
Surely you could use the data from the magnetic strip? For regulars, there is no incentive to use travel cards over oyster if it were the same price. Therefore the bulk of passengers who also bring in the most revenue as they travel regularly are still providing TFL with data. Do they really need to know about my break in Chichester so they can improve services on the Vic between Euston and Victoria incase I travel again?

I do understand your reasoning but from my point of view it just seems like someone on TFL towers is charging what they like because they can.

Though I did get to enjoy a door failure on the 2009 stock for my money! Jokes aside the new stock is very nice

There's savings on stock and disposal of the cards that are swallowed. They've helped achieve a huge reduction in reselling of travelcards - and the associated drug problems around certain stations.

yorkie · 21 Apr 2011

TomJ93 said:
Seeing as I was late and it was relatively busy I wouldn't have left much time to buy 5 Oysters- let alone go to the hassle of returning five on the return.

I understand you guys feel I should get an Oyster, but I can't believe TFL would struggle so much to get me from Euston to Victoria on a reasonably priced paper ticket. 50p a minute that cost me! Bear in mind my Coventry to Lonson Euston cost £6!

OK if these 4 people will never visit London again, fair enough, but I still don't understand why you bought £4 LU singles when you could have asked the guard on your train for 4 x GroupSave singles @ £2 each, a grand total of £8 (ie, half the price) from South Hampstead to Clapham Jn (or bought them online) (stations are examples only, any appropriate stations in the area will do).

Yes someone who only ever does one journey is really stung for an expensive single, but you were told earlier how to get round it!!

yorkie said:
.... try seeing if GroupSave is available ...

Deerfold · 21 Apr 2011

yorkie said:
Yes someone who only ever does one journey is really stung for an expensive single, but you were told earlier how to get round it!!

And that Oyster would have been cheaper (if you'd got the £3 deposit ones as directed at Euston) *even if you couldn't get them refunded*.

You do seem to have gone out of your way so you can then complain loudly afterwards,

TomJ93 · 21 Apr 2011

Please don't think I'm just having a moan for the sake of it, I just can't see why they'd want me to have an Oyster so badly.

Imagine I didn't leave myself such a healthy transfer time, and I was on one of the earlier trains from Chichester which were meeting delays. I would have to rush to get my connection at Euston and then I would be stuck with an Oyster card as would my friends.

The same on the inbound journey. I have say 15minutes to get myself, friends and baggage to Victoria due to, let's say a Pantograph falling off a of Manc to Euston train somewhere ooh let's say near Berkhamstead?

were it a travelcard I can buy on board off of the guard meaning as soon as I arrive at Euston I go straight to Victoria. I must confess I forgot about groupsave, but two people were intending to travel at a later date, meaning if that happened we would not be eligible for a group save.

I know they are hypothetical situations there- but its nice to have the paper tickets as an option.

Mojo · 22 Apr 2011

TomJ93 said:
Please don't think I'm just having a moan for the sake of it, I just can't see why they'd want me to have an Oyster so badly.

Because it cuts down on time spent on ticket barriers, reduces the fraud risk, means people spend less time at ticket machines and ticket offices, allows online transactions, and so on.

As to why they'd want you to have an Oyster card; it applies for everyone. I am unsure as to how TfL would provide for an infrequent London visitor discount on paper tickets. As Deerfold has stated, if you can get a £3 deposit card it's only £6.80 per person for a return trip, and you have the possibility of using the card again; even if you never visit London ever again in your life; it's still cheaper!

All Line Rover · 22 Apr 2011

Mojo said:
...even if you never visit London ever again in your life; it's still cheaper!

It's most probable that Tom will visit London again at least some time in his life!

It's the capital for goodness sake!

WestCoast · 22 Apr 2011

Please don't think I'm just having a moan for the sake of it, I just can't see why they'd want me to have an Oyster so badly.

I know they are hypothetical situations there- but its nice to have the paper tickets as an option.

I know you want to use a paper ticket but I don't understand the reluctance about Oyster - if you have an anonymous Oyster card you can't be traced!

In Amsterdam you are forced to buy a ChipKaart (like Oyster) for the tram/bus/metro as paper tickets simply don't exist anymore although disposable cardboard versions are available for single use - which is something I'd like to see introduced to the Oyster system!

dzug2 · 22 Apr 2011

TomJ93 said:
Seeing as I was late and it was relatively busy I wouldn't have left much time to buy 5 Oysters- let alone go to the hassle of returning five on the return.

I understand you guys feel I should get an Oyster, but I can't believe TFL would struggle so much to get me from Euston to Victoria on a reasonably priced paper ticket. 50p a minute that cost me! Bear in mind my Coventry to Lonson Euston cost £6!

But if you had specified Coventry to London Zone 1 your ticket would have cost you £9. OK still £3 extra but better than £4

(Assuming it wasn't megatrain - apologies if it was)

John @ home · 22 Apr 2011

dzug2 said:
But if you had specified Coventry to London Zone 1 your ticket would have cost you £9. OK still £3 extra but better than £4

A good idea, but in this instance it's not available. The only £6 Coventry - London fare in the National Fares Manual NFM 08 CD is:
Standard Advance Single (ticket type C7S) Coventry - London Terminals route AP London Midland only £6.00 CU LMR.

There are no Advance fares in the manual Coventry - Zone U1 Londn route + London Midland only. I don't know why.

In contrast, the lowest priced Advance ticket from Virgin, Standard Advance Single (ticket type VES) Coventry - London Terminals route Virgin Trains only £5.00 VR VWC, is available with a £3 tube add-on as:
Coventry - Zone U1 Londn route + Virgin Trains only £8.00 VR VWC.

Very odd.

djw1981 · 22 Apr 2011

If you had takenm them home with you, you can IIRC apply for refund online or by post.

Optimo · 22 Apr 2011

I empathise with you TomJ93, the tracking of my journeys is something I also try to avoid, so though I have a monthly oyster, I don't scan in/out if there are no barriers so all my journeys are not logged. The tfl money grab even extended to no longer printing record cards on monthly oyster travelcards - so they think you'll swipe in/out to check if it's 'soon to expire'.
Good luck beating the system.

SS4 · 22 Apr 2011

Optimo said:
I empathise with you TomJ93, the tracking of my journeys is something I also try to avoid, so though I have a monthly oyster, I don't scan in/out if there are no barriers so all my journeys are not logged. The tfl money grab even extended to no longer printing record cards on monthly oyster travelcards - so they think you'll swipe in/out to check if it's 'soon to expire'.
Good luck beating the system.

Nothing is free. At the cost of some journey tracking (8 weeks for online Oyster iirc) you save money on trips around London. Whether the saving is worth it is up to whoever is making the journey although a ticket from Euston to Victoria is logged just as much.

I don't see what the problem is, the data protection act requires that your data is removed when it's no longer needed, any information held has to be accurate and up to date and any statistics must be anonymous and unable to be reverse engineered to identify the subject
If you're paranoid you can use the Act to request the information TfL hold about you for a small fee (usually £10)

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