Ok as I’ve not used XC much lately I’ll bow to your knowledge on that.
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XC Voyager Refurbishment
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Trainman40083
Member
One train instead of two would surely need less staff, although it would impact on platform capacity at some stations such as New Street, where two trains can use the same platform at the same time.
Depends if the second unit is needed elsewhere on the day. Hence it may get taken off at Leeds, Birmingham , Bristol.
HamworthyGoods
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Which is no different to the HST failing (as used to regularly happen) and have to be replaced by a voyager taken off another train.
Trainman40083
Member
And the HSTs were not always that reliable
Liam L
Member
Crosscountry to gain additional 5 on top of the 7 voyagers already confirmed to be moving across from Avanti.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Pity they can't have them all, but 12 in total should make a significant difference.
cactustwirly
Established Member
Well it will put them back to when they had HSTs on capacity
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
It’ll be an improvement on that. By quite a bit.
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Brissle Girl
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Slightly better actually.
And 12 units can enable 36 diagrams to be strengthened, as a 5 car can replace a 4 car, 2x4 cars released can replace a 5 car, and that 5 car can release another 4 car etc. Example below showing 4 extra units and 12 strengthened diagrams.
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Laserbeam31
New Member
That's a very welcome development. Hopefully this means more double Voyagers on busy routes. I wonder what's prompted/permitted them to take on more compared with the 7 originally stated as part of the renewed franchise...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Significantly better. The HSTs were underused compared to what could be done with more Voyager diagrams.
class397tpe
Member
Should allow at least 6 more services per day to be strengthened vs the situation with the HSTs.
Only 2 HSTs were used per day, so 4 of the additional voyagers to go replace them. The other 8 will act as a pure capacity boost allowing doubling up of further diagrams (probably 6-7 strengthened depending on availability).
Brissle Girl
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I’ve noted a few posts up that each additional 5 car set introduced enables 3 diagrams to be strengthened, by varying amounts.
Trainman40083
Member
Probably banged a few heads at the DfT
fgwrich
Established Member
By the sounds of it, binning off their last MD might have helped too.
An election…
“We’ve significantly increased capacity on some of the longest and busiest routes on the uk network. From Aberdeen to Penzance you can trust a Conservative government … “ etc etc.
If they really want the others, and find some cash for them in the next year or so, they'll still have an opportunity to outbid on them (or sub-let them). It's very unlikely they'd be scrapped or exported, at least.
Anonymous10
Established Member
Or between the key cities of Manchester /Birmingham and Bristol/ Reading ect ect
AlastairFraser
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How many would you need to strengthen all diagrams?
Brissle Girl
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I think they have 54 units, but how many diagrams that equates to after allowing for maintenance and those that are already double units I can’t say.
Also it only works if you start the reshuffle by replacing a 4 with a 5. Once you’ve run out of 4s then the 3 diagrams per extra unit ratio comes down.
Yes, that too obviously, but it just doesn’t have the same ring to it. Aberdeen to Penzance sounds like they’ve invested billions in improvements nationwide
Still a very welcome move from my point of view, speaking as someone who’s been squished in like sardines for many years.
Next on the agenda, sort of the erratic catering. I was on a Voyager at the weekend for a very long journey from the north east to Bristol. No trolley to be seen. Doubling up sets only makes catering more tricky as there’s no way of getting it between the 2 separate trains.
Ah well, I’ve given up with expecting a trolley and will always take my own in future.
AlastairFraser
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So, if we took the mean average of the diagram per unit ratio, a reasonable estimate would be around 1.5 - 2, perhaps (obviously we don't know all of the factors here - we're just making assumptions).
For a conservative estimate, you then use 1.5 as the average ratio × 6 spare units = 9 diagrams strengthened.
Do we know how many XC diagrams there are in total?
How
The Middle
Member
Some diagrams can't be doubled either such as the Reading-Newcastle due to length of the bays at Newcastle.
I think they have 49 or 50 out of 58 units diagramed. 12 extra units should allow at least 10 extra units in service and should see 20 - 25 diagrams lengthened when you allow for maintenance cover and also the fact that some units will not be on the most efficient on paper diagrams due to other timetabling constraints.
All in all around half of trains should be longer which should be a very welcome improvement.
All in all around half of trains should be longer which should be a very welcome improvement.
The 12 extra units should be enough for either 5 cars or 4+4 cars on all diagrams.
XC can make more diagrams double voyagers by attaching an extra unit around the XC core. E.g. on the Manchester - Bournemouth runs detaching/attaching the front unit at Reading where there is already a reversal. XC already try to attach/detach units on route but they need sufficient staff to allow it.
Welcome news; thank god for a glimmer of common sense (finally 
).
I’d suggest that there is no congratulation or gratitude due for this, good news though it is; XC has been an afront to long suffering rail users for a generation, should have had its fleet strengthened years ago and should absolutely not have been stripped of the HSTs without immediate replacement.
But, nonetheless, good!
).I’d suggest that there is no congratulation or gratitude due for this, good news though it is; XC has been an afront to long suffering rail users for a generation, should have had its fleet strengthened years ago and should absolutely not have been stripped of the HSTs without immediate replacement.
But, nonetheless, good!
YorkshireBear
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Really pleasing news, I was worried XC wouldn't get any and was dissapointed only to see 7. As others have said 12 is a significant uplift on the HST capacity. Shame it's going to take another year to get them all.
Interesting that Wakefield Westgate and Chesterfield are being dropped over the summer to remove local journeys. It does go to show how important regional services are to relieve pressure on intercity services.
Interesting that Wakefield Westgate and Chesterfield are being dropped over the summer to remove local journeys. It does go to show how important regional services are to relieve pressure on intercity services.
YorksLad12
Established Member
Interesting. The Westgate stop is mostly used by Wakefield College students from York and Leeds, who won't be travelling over the summer. There's healthy boarding at Westgate on 1V48 (0824 departure, I think), in my experience. To do Wakefield-Sheffield you'd have to travel the wrong way or catch the semi-fast from Kirkgate. And you still have to pass through Westgate even if not stopping. Correction: not interesting, strange
Kite159
Veteran Member
I wonder if the half-hourly Northern 2 coach 195s can cope with the extra passengers for Sheffield from Wakefield due to XC axing the call. I wonder when timetables will get updated to reflect the axing of certain stations to avoid being overloaded by local passengers (I doubt they will axe the calls at Wolverhampton or Coventry though)
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As for XC getting more voyagers, good, hopefully they can be pressed into service ASAP, even though the seat layout in coach D (at least) is completely different which might screw up reservations.