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Are our railways haunted? (ghost stories)

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CosherB

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Well, regardless of his posting style, at least Old Timer's avatar is on-thread! :D

I think the tunnel above Chee Dale on the former Midland main line in the Peak District is reputed to be haunted. It is sealed, but has access doors, so an investigation could be made.
 
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Kernowfem

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Captain speaking, many thanks for the contribution....Sounds interesting. Have to ask old timer if he has ever experienced anything 'out of the ordinary' on our railways.
 

Old Timer

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Captain speaking, many thanks for the contribution....Sounds interesting. Have to ask old timer if he has ever experienced anything 'out of the ordinary' on our railways.
Many times, old chap, many times, as well as on RAF airfields, although one would of course be ridiculed if I told you of them.
 

Kernowfem

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Many times, old chap, many times, as well as on RAF airfields, although one would of course be ridiculed if I told you of them.

Old chap....more of the old less of the chap, i am of the female species :D:D

Oh please, do share your stories. I would certainly be most interested to hear them.
 

Trog

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I have done nearly thirty years on the railway working nights and days, often on my own. In fact I spent last Halloween night working on my own at a point where the railway passes between a patch of woodland and an old graveyard. In all that time I have seen and heard absolutely nothing supernatural.

But I have noticed that my mind plays tricks on me when I am tired and working at night. You start to see things in shadows that are not actually there when you pull your senses together. Are ghosts just the same effect but in people with more imagination than me?
 

Old Timer

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Old chap....more of the old less of the chap, i am of the female species :D:D

Oh please, do share your stories. I would certainly be most interested to hear them.
OK, here goes one.

My good friendand colleague Trog will definitely know and have worked with the individual in this story.

The area is on The Midland, at a place called Ampthill, where there are two double bore Tunnels, one for the Slows and one for the Fasts.

One night a Driver stops out of course at Flitwick signal box to report a bad bump on the Up Fast in the tunnel. The line is blocked and the PWSS On Call is called out.

He goes to the tunnel and discovers a break in the rail.

The gang is called out and set about replacing the rail, which as I recall, in those days was jointed within the tunnel.

During the job the Supervisor walks a little away from the gang to look at something and as he is bending down, someone taps him on the shoulder and asks if he can have a light for his cigarette.

The Supervisor says yes and looks up to see who it is, except he is all alone and there is no one anywhere near him.

After that people were very reluctant to go into the tunnels alone at night.

As I recall the Slow lines tunnel always felt as if you were being watched by someone, and the Fast Lines tunnel never "felt" right, and I have been through many, many tunnels in my years on the job.

The Supervisor concerned was well known as a level headed chap, and not the sort given to flights of fancy.

I myself like Trog have been about the Railway at night almost for longer than in the daylight, and I can honestly say I have no problems or worries about being alone, however there are a few places where I never "feel comfortable" for some reason.

Thorpe Le Soken at the access point by the junction with the Clacton/Walton branches is one of those places. I have no idea why but I certainly prefer NOT to be there as opposed to being there. Others I know of feel similar when you as them privately.

Another place is St James Deeping, where I always get the feeling of being followed at night when walking back along the Up Main line towards Spalding.

This is the thing about Railway ghosts, someone will quietly mention to someone else that they have experienced something and then that person sometimes admits they have. Ghosts or strange happenings is not something ever talked about openly, certainly in my experience, which tends to rule out any pre-expectations.

With the increasing use of contract Labour Agencies which have staff movimng around the Country, people from those sometimes quietly ask about something they have felt or thought to have seen but of which there is no way they can have known.
 

Mintona

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I think I've read them before OT, are you the same poster as on RailChat? I think there was a whole ghost thread on there a few months back.
 

Kernowfem

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Old timer, many thanks for sharing your stories with us, certainly made for interesting reading. If you have any more please post them. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the thread so far, i hope there are more stories yet to come.
 

TheSlash

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I always found it interesting that while keeping an open mind, some suicide hotspots had a presence while others had nothing.

I have spoke to a well respect Pway chap before who has told me how the Roman Legion have been known to march through his village.

I believe i have seen a ghost once. I was driving to work, travelling via the backroads {i prefer them to the motorway, it's driving rather than autopilot}
I used to cut off the corner off a major junction, by cutting through the village. The village roads are the typical very narrow, very steeply graded and winding.
As i came to a road junction within the village around half past ten at night, i saw a Horse and Rider come out of a side road right in front of me. Luckily the road layout meant i was slowing right down to take a 90* left hand turn, otherwise we would of collided.
At first, i thought it was just a Horse and Rider, so i tried to speed off after them, determined to give them a piece of my mind about using lights at nights etc.
They had a good lead over me, i didn't catch them until the end of the village where there is a T junction with the main road. Then it looked like an unlit Motocross bike, but before i could do anything, they had accelerated away and that was the last i saw of them.

I can safely say i wasn't looking for ghosts, as the nature of the road demands your full attention. It's got some very tight turns with a poor road service, and then you have a staggered cross roads over a high speed road.
 

CosherB

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I bet that rail worker who tapped the supervisor on the far shoulder (reaching around his neck) in the black black tunnel and asked for a light, then skipped smartly back into the shadows before his 'victim' turned around (the wrong way, of course), is still laughing today.:D
 
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SouthEastern-465

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I have been reading OT posts on this thread they are very interesting and a good read :)

Come on tell us some more!
 
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37401

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Old chap....more of the old less of the chap, i am of the female species :D:D
.

I wondered why the name was Kernowfem :)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ive got one 37069 passed me and down at the end of the platform gave a 2 tone,
there were no rail workers or enthusiasts at that end so no reason for the tone, they do say 069`s horns go off on their own and what not.
 

Old Timer

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This one relates to an unusual happening at the beginning of the 1980s at an old signalbox which was switched out of use after the closure of the diverging route which it controlled. These were the days of mechanical signals with oil lights, and sometimes even the Boxes lit by oil and heated by coal stoves.

One night very cold and frosty night when I was On Call I received a telephone call asking me to attend to a signalbox that had been closed for some time.

It used to signal a diverging line that had been closed, and since then, the signalbox had not been manned but had been locked up and switched out of circuit, with the signals "Off", as it was not required for line sectioning purposes.

It was reported by a Driver of a Down freight that a person had been observed in the box, the lights were on, and the fire was going. Knowing that the box had been closed, the Driver stopped specially out of course at the next signalbox to report the matter.

Control had called the Police and wanted me to attend as well, which I did.

The box, itself could only be reached by a long, tortuous route which involved driving out of the City for some miles in order to cross a dyke from where you travelled back again along the opposite side of the dyke and down a poorly surfaced road to the box.

The box was visible in the distance from another signalbox (also closed), which had very easy road access from the City centre, so it was arranged that I would meet the Police there, which I did.

Sure enough in the far distance we could see the closed signalbox that was the subject of the report, and indeed the lights were on.

Of course we did not know who was in there or why so it was decided that the easiest and quckest way to get there would be to drive to it, which we did, albeit at some rapid speed. Remember that the Police were treating it as a potential burglary/vandalism/arson, and in an otherwise quiet City, it actually added some variation to an otherwise sedentary night.

Off we went therefore with the blue lights flashing, with me racing along behind in the Railway van trying to keep up.

Much quicker of course than would ordinarily have been the case, we reached the Signalbox................. to find it in total darkness.

Now of course the first assumption was that whoever had been there had done whatever they came for and had departed.

Now however comes the very strange thing about the whole incident.

We walked to the box steps to find them covered in frost, clearly no-one had been up those steps.

We walked around the bottom to see if they had climbed out of a window and shimmied down a rope, again there was no sign of this and the footboards over the point rodding were frost covered with frost so no-one had walked there.

Myself and the Policeman went up the steps to find the box door locked, which I duly opened and we went inside.

It was quite obvious quite quickly that no-one had been in the box whatsoever. The fire had definitely not been on, and there was no heat in the air either.

Everything looked to be in good order and there was no evidence of any damage, or interference with anything.

Of course by now neither of us were particularly impressed, me for having been summoned out of bed, and the Policeman who had been hoping for some action, only to find nothing.

I telephoned Control to confirm that I had been given the correct details, and to confirm the Driver's report.

We agreed that the Driver should be contacted to find out some more details as the was now a very clear issue of dispute with the report.

The Driver was actually at his relieving point depot waiting to work back, and we were able to challenge him about the story pretty quickly. Both he and his Secondman were absolutely adamant at what they had seen confirming additionally that the lighting appeared to be by oil light.

They were both flabberghasted and somewhat put out also at what they felt was the veracity of their report being questioned, and it was agreed that provided that they stopped momentarily at the Signalbox on the way back, that we would cover the delay. They also insisted on the TCI at that Depot confirming that they had not been drinking.

The Deputy Chief Controller also telephoned the TCI (privately) at their home depot and confirmed that they were two level headed men, with good records.

I went back to the Signalbox in the daylight, with an S&T lineman to check the situation.

The situation was exactly as it had been before, with nothing touched.

We never did reach any firm conclusion, and I was happy to accept that the Driver and Secondman had stopped and reported something they were convinced they had seen, for a variety of reasons.

The Driver will be long retired by now and there is every possibility that the Secondman will be a senior Driver somewhere.

Such a shame I do not have the records to identify them. It wiould be interesting to see what they had to say after all these years.
 

ralphchadkirk

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Excellent story OT, as usual!

I don't believe in the "normal" ghosts - such as a roman walking through a wall, yet there are things I have expierinced that I cannot explain - rather like OT's description above.
 

The 158 Man

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Please keep 'em coming Old Timer. :)

Just ignore all this rubbish about your stories being BS etc. I think they're marvellous. ;)

Does anyone know if there's any books about railway hauntings/ghostly tales etc?
 

Old Timer

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Just ignore all this rubbish about your stories being BS etc.
I intend to.

So called sceptics are simple people with closed minds, and an inability to think beyond the physical plane.

They are similar to the large majority of philosophers and astronomers who still subscribed to the geocentric view that the Earth was at the centre of the universe in Galileo's time.

I believe that Flat Earthism is also popular as no-one can actually "Prove" to them that the earth is round :lol::lol:

There are now many scientists who are not frightenened to admit that there is much that conventional science cannot explain away, for example mediumship.

Helen Duncan is probably the most well known case, and was the last woman to be charged with Witchcraft in the UK.

Basically at a audience she was holding during WW2, she declared that HMS Hood had been sunk earlier in the day. The time was 1530.

Brigadier Firebrace, a very enthusiastic believer in Spiritualism, who was the Chief of Security at the time in Scotland, attended that séance. He returned to his office and telephoned the Admiralty to see whether, as he called it, the rumour of the sinking was true. At that time it was denied.

By 21:30, as he was leaving the office, a telephone call was received from the Admiralty confirming the sinking at 13:30.

The evidence given by Mrs. Duncan was accurate. However, the authorities were clearly worried that this information coming from a third party rather than Central Government could undermine public morale. Particularly, when this country was secretly preparing allied troops for the D-Day landings.

Within six months, a young man materialised in the séance who had been severely burnt and died in the sinking of HMS Barham. The editor of “Psychic News”, Maurice Barbanell, attended this séance. He returned to make a telephone call to the Admiralty and Home Office, asking why this information had not been divulged to the parents and families of those who had perished. Again, the reason was given that it would have had a serious impact on public morale.

All of this is on public record.

At the time of these sinkings being announced by Helen Duncan, no-one not even the Admiralty had received notification so no-one knew, least of all Mrs Duncan.

However I guess this will still be treated as BS by the (new) resident sceptics.
 

Burkitt

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With regard to Helen Duncan, the ever reliable Wikipedia puts things a little differently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Duncan

"In 1934, during a seance in Edinburgh, a sitter made a grab at one of her materialisations. The police were called, and the "spirit" was then alleged to be a stockinette undervest. Duncan was found guilty of affray and fake mediumship at Edinburgh Sheriff Court and sentenced to a £10 fine or one month in prison.[2] Supporters of Duncan have later claimed that the verdict was not "guilty" but the Scottish verdict of "not proven", based on their interpretation that the conviction was for affray alone.[3]

During World War II, in November 1941, Duncan held a seance in Portsmouth at which she indicated knowledge that HMS Barham had been sunk. Because this fact was only revealed, in strict confidence, to the relatives of casualties, and not announced to the public until late January 1942, the Navy started to take an interest in her activities. Two lieutenants were among her audience at a seance on 14 January 1944 and this was followed up on 19 January, when police arrested her at another seance as a white-shrouded manifestation appeared.[4][2] This proved to be Duncan herself, in a white cloth which she attempted to conceal when discovered, and she was arrested.[5]. She was also found to be in possession of a mocked-up HMS Barham hat-band.[6]. This apparently related to an alleged manifestation of the spirit of a dead sailor on HMS Barham, although Duncan appeared unaware that after 1939 sailors did not wear hat-bands identifying their ship.[7] . She was initially arrested under section 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824, a minor offence tried by magistrates. However, the authorities regarded the case as more serious, and eventually discovered section 4 of the Witchcraft Act 1735, covering fraudulent "spiritual" activity, which was triable before a jury. Charged alongside her for conspiracy to contravene this Act were Ernest and Elizabeth Homer, who operated the Psychic centre in Portsmouth, and Frances Brown, who was Duncan's agent who went with her to set up seances. There were seven counts in total, two of conspiracy to contravene the Witchcraft Act, two of obtaining money by false pretences, and three of public mischief (a common law offence).
The prosecution may be explained by the mood of suspicion prevailing at the time: the authorities were afraid that she could continue to reveal classified information, whatever her source was.[8] There were also concerns that she was exploiting the recently-bereaved, as the Recorder noted when passing sentence.[9]"
 

Old Timer

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No denial that she announced the sinkings before even the Admiralty had confirmation.

Also you may wish to read this from the official Helen Duncan website about the so called "sheet"....

Thus Helen Duncan, together with three of her innocent sitters, were taken up before Portsmouth magistrates and charged with Vagrancy. At this hearing the court was told that Lieutenant R. Worth of the Royal Navy had attended this séance suspecting fraud. He had paid 25 shillings (then worth about $5) each for two tickets and had passed the second ticket to a policeman . It was this policeman who had made the unsuccessful grab for the ectoplasm, believing it to be a white sheet. But the subsequent finger tip search of the room immediately after the raid failed to discover any white sheets.


Here is a more lucid commentary

Since the sinking of the battleship HMS Royal Oak in October 1939, also by a daring U-boat commander, the Admiralty established the policy of immediately announcing all major warship losses. When the German battleship Bismarck blew up HMS Hood in the Denmark Strait in May 1941 the government somberly broadcast the loss of the famous battlecruiser on the same day it was sunk.

But when the British realized the Germans remained unaware of Barham’s destruction, they quickly reversed this policy. Royal Navy naval forces in the Atlantic and Mediterranean were already under strength, and although they did not know it, new disasters lurked on the horizon. In less than a month the two remaining battleships in the Eastern Mediterranean, Queen Elizabeth and Valiant, would be mined and severely damaged in Alexandria harbor by Italian “human torpedoes.” Their long-term repairs would leave the Royal Navy incapable of intervening during a crucial Axis buildup in the Desert War. And three days after Barham’s loss, HMS Prince of Wales would meet HMS Repulse in the Indian Ocean before proceeding to Singapore on their fateful mission to deter an increasingly belligerent Japan. Both warships would be sunk by Japanese torpedo bombers within two weeks. It was what the London newspaper The Daily Express later called “the blackest fortnight in Britain’s naval history in world wars.”

Realizing an opportunity to mislead their enemies and protect home-front morale, the Admiralty censored Barham’s sinking. News of the loss of one of the Royal Navy’s fifteen remaining capital ships was confined to the chambers Admiralty and White Hall – or so they believed.

Despite her court appearance, Duncan remained a popular spiritualist and much sought-after medium during the war. She organized frequent séances for people seeking to communicate with deceased relatives. During one séance held shortly after the Barham’s loss in late 1941 she reportedly summoned the spirit of a sailor who announced, “My ship is sunk” to the astonished audience. The sailor reportedly wore a Royal Navy hatband with the name “HMS Barham.” This episode occurred while Barham’s loss remained a heavily guarded secret. When news of the event reached the Admiralty, they feared Duncan’s séances would unravel their extensive measures of concealment.

Keeping Secrets
On November 27, two days after Barham’s loss, Winston Churchill telegrammed Australian Prime Minister John Curtain to describe the objectives of the censorship campaign: “This [the loss of Barham] is being kept strictly secret at present as the enemy do not seem to know, and the event would only encourage Japan.” Under the strain of two years of constant war, the embattled leaders of Britain grasped every advantage they could.

Many steps, both elaborate and subtle, were taken to prevent the truth from reaching the public or the Axis powers. One extraordinary measure included the printing and mailing of Christmas and New Year’s cards for the crew of the sunken battleship, even those who had perished. Admiralty officials realized that withholding the cards would have raised suspicions about the Barham’s status.

More traditional forms of deception were employed as well. On January 8, 1942 Adm. Cunningham reassured the readers of the Glasgow Herald with an article headlined “All’s well with the Navy in the Mediterranean.” Although Cunningham admitted his forces “had to fight and win against some pretty long odds at times,” his upbeat appraisal hardly reflected the actual situation of three British battleships in the Mediterranean sunk or disabled in as many months.

The censorship campaign also extended to the Admiralty’s monthly “Naval Supply and Production” statistics. These documents charted the number and types of British warships ordered, launched, damaged and destroyed for each month during the war. The supply and production records for November 1941 failed to register the loss of the battleship Barham, although the December 1941 statistics accounted for the sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse in the South China Sea. Since these documents were circulated throughout the Admiralty, all traces of the Barham’s loss had to be removed.

After a delay of several weeks, the War Office decided to alert the next of kin of Barham’s dead, but they added a special request for secrecy. The notification letters included a warning not to discuss the loss of the ship with anyone but close relatives, stating it was “most essential that information of the event which led to the loss of your husband's life should not find its way to the enemy until such time as it is announced officially…” The wives and families receiving these letters were undoubtedly devastated by their grief yet were prevented from making any public announcement of their loss.

Since the sinking of Barham occurred in the late afternoon with many other warships present, it was one of the best-recorded and investigated naval disasters of the war. A Reuters correspondent who witnessed the torpedoing and explosion later wrote, “It was something like one sees on film.” His analogy proved prescient when it was revealed that a Gaumont-British cameraman named John Turner filmed the last minutes of Barham. The navy impounded the footage shortly after the sinking, holding it until 1945.Today, Turner’s film of the stricken battleship keeling over and exploding comprise one of the most compelling short movies of the war.

Only when the German High Command guessed at Barham’s loss in late January 1942 did the British government acknowledge the truth. The Admiralty informed the press on January 27, 1942 and explained their rationale for withholding the news. By then, with crushing Allied defeats mounting in the new Pacific war, newspapers wrote little about the torpedoed battleship or the censorship. The January 28, 1942 edition of the Glasgow Herald resembled most newspapers when it accepted the Admiralty’s decision to censor the loss, writing “it was important to make certain disposition before the loss of this ship was made public.” When the news of the Barham’s sinking was confirmed in Germany, Kplt. Von Tiesenhausen received the award of a Knight’s Cross.

A Modern Witchcraft Trial
Helen Duncan was not arrested in the aftermath of the Barham incident, and she continued to organize séances throughout the country. But authorities watched her more closely. In 1942 Duncan began to lead spiritualist demonstrations in Portsmouth, a naval town on England’s southern coast. She was conducting a séance in Portsmouth on January 19, 1944 when suddenly a whistle blew and a participant rushed forward to grab the floating ectoplasm. Others in the audience turned on the lights and ushered in the police. Undercover naval and police officers had infiltrated the meeting, and Duncan and three other shocked participants were arrested and charged with vagrancy before the Portsmouth magistrates.

Higher authorities intervened, however, and the police transported Duncan to London to face charges from the Director of Public Prosecutions. The more serious accusation of conspiracy, punishable by death in wartime, replaced her original infraction. Finally, the prosecutors decided to charge her with violating the 1735 Witchcraft Act, a law originally passed during the reign of King George II that had lain dormant for a hundred years.

Duncan’s trial at London’s Old Bailey court began on March 23, 1944 and lasted a week. It was a tabloid trial, attracting widespread coverage in the newspapers for its characters and accusations quite unusual for a 20th century court. The undercover agents who broke up the Portsmouth séance testified against Duncan, and the chief of the Portsmouth police called her “an unmitigated humbug and pest.” The prosecutors introduced evidence that Duncan revealed the loss of Barham in 1941 while it remained an Admiralty secret. For her defense the jury heard from 19 witnesses who testified that Duncan had summoned the spirits of their dead relatives and friends. The defense team also proposed that Duncan hold a séance in the courtroom, but the prosecution, realizing the mockery that could result from the stunt, refused their offer.

This article first appeared in the December 2004 issue of World War II magazine.


I would also advise that Wikipedia is hardly the most reliable source of information, and it is starting to gain a less than welcome reputation as a site where "facts" as written are not always what they purport to be.

Unlike yourself, even Wikipedia are prepared to admit that they cannot guarantee the accuracy of the content and I would suggest you may wish to read what Librarians and academics think of it.

Here is the link...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia
 

BlythPower

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Does anyone know if there's any books about railway hauntings/ghostly tales etc?

Recommended earlier by Kernowfem:
Has anyone read Railway ghosts and phantoms by W.B Herbert? Some excellent stories in there.

I can also recommend Crossing the Line by Paul Screeton. Not just ghost stories but a whole range of railway related Forteana. It's a fascinating and enjoyable read.
 

CosherB

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Just ignore all this rubbish about your stories being BS etc. I think they're marvellous. ;)

Sorry 158, good stories they may be but they're so full of holes where a rational explanation would fit that 'bull****' has to be the correct description.

Enjoy them as stories by all means, but please apply a bit of common sense as well!
 

BlythPower

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Interesting story...thankyou for sharing it. I have heard that an old deltic 'nimbus' can still be seen on a certain part of the railway network even though it was scrapped in 1980. My grandfather was a midland man, and he used to tell me about the sightings of it. Apparently its appearences were reported 9 times, lets face it, a deltic would now stick out like a sore thumb, and unless a special, would be widely talked about...

I'm afraid this tale's been debunked. The 'ghost story' began as a spoof in the Deltic Preservation Society's Deltic Deadline magazine and was picked up by W.B. Herbert and quoted as fact in his book (which by the sound of things is full of such dubiousness). 'Crossing the Line' puts things straight on this and a few other tales...
 

Old Timer

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Sorry 158, good stories they may be but they're so full of holes where a rational explanation would fit that 'bull****' has to be the correct description.

Enjoy them as stories by all means, but please apply a bit of common sense as well!
Your assertions suggest that those of us who HAVE seen or experienced things are either delusional or liars, which both I and I am sure others on here will not take kindly to.

Out of interest do tell us what special knowledge you have which appears to be denied to the broad scientific community who have been unable to explain a number of happenings ?

As I said previously "The lady doth protest too much methinks"

And out of interest do you speak as an experienced Railwayman or as a spotter ?
 

SouthEastern-465

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This one relates to an unusual happening at the beginning of the 1980s at an old signalbox which was switched out of use after the closure of the diverging route which it controlled. These were the days of mechanical signals with oil lights, and sometimes even the Boxes lit by oil and heated by coal stoves.

One night very cold and frosty night when I was On Call I received a telephone call asking me to attend to a signalbox that had been closed for some time.

It used to signal a diverging line that had been closed, and since then, the signalbox had not been manned but had been locked up and switched out of circuit, with the signals "Off", as it was not required for line sectioning purposes.

It was reported by a Driver of a Down freight that a person had been observed in the box, the lights were on, and the fire was going. Knowing that the box had been closed, the Driver stopped specially out of course at the next signalbox to report the matter.

Control had called the Police and wanted me to attend as well, which I did.

The box, itself could only be reached by a long, tortuous route which involved driving out of the City for some miles in order to cross a dyke from where you travelled back again along the opposite side of the dyke and down a poorly surfaced road to the box.

The box was visible in the distance from another signalbox (also closed), which had very easy road access from the City centre, so it was arranged that I would meet the Police there, which I did.

Sure enough in the far distance we could see the closed signalbox that was the subject of the report, and indeed the lights were on.

Of course we did not know who was in there or why so it was decided that the easiest and quckest way to get there would be to drive to it, which we did, albeit at some rapid speed. Remember that the Police were treating it as a potential burglary/vandalism/arson, and in an otherwise quiet City, it actually added some variation to an otherwise sedentary night.

Off we went therefore with the blue lights flashing, with me racing along behind in the Railway van trying to keep up.

Much quicker of course than would ordinarily have been the case, we reached the Signalbox................. to find it in total darkness.

Now of course the first assumption was that whoever had been there had done whatever they came for and had departed.

Now however comes the very strange thing about the whole incident.

We walked to the box steps to find them covered in frost, clearly no-one had been up those steps.

We walked around the bottom to see if they had climbed out of a window and shimmied down a rope, again there was no sign of this and the footboards over the point rodding were frost covered with frost so no-one had walked there.

Myself and the Policeman went up the steps to find the box door locked, which I duly opened and we went inside.

It was quite obvious quite quickly that no-one had been in the box whatsoever. The fire had definitely not been on, and there was no heat in the air either.

Everything looked to be in good order and there was no evidence of any damage, or interference with anything.

Of course by now neither of us were particularly impressed, me for having been summoned out of bed, and the Policeman who had been hoping for some action, only to find nothing.

I telephoned Control to confirm that I had been given the correct details, and to confirm the Driver's report.

We agreed that the Driver should be contacted to find out some more details as the was now a very clear issue of dispute with the report.

The Driver was actually at his relieving point depot waiting to work back, and we were able to challenge him about the story pretty quickly. Both he and his Secondman were absolutely adamant at what they had seen confirming additionally that the lighting appeared to be by oil light.

They were both flabberghasted and somewhat put out also at what they felt was the veracity of their report being questioned, and it was agreed that provided that they stopped momentarily at the Signalbox on the way back, that we would cover the delay. They also insisted on the TCI at that Depot confirming that they had not been drinking.

The Deputy Chief Controller also telephoned the TCI (privately) at their home depot and confirmed that they were two level headed men, with good records.

I went back to the Signalbox in the daylight, with an S&T lineman to check the situation.

The situation was exactly as it had been before, with nothing touched.

We never did reach any firm conclusion, and I was happy to accept that the Driver and Secondman had stopped and reported something they were convinced they had seen, for a variety of reasons.

The Driver will be long retired by now and there is every possibility that the Secondman will be a senior Driver somewhere.

Such a shame I do not have the records to identify them. It wiould be interesting to see what they had to say after all these years.

Great story OT :)
 

CosherB

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Out of interest do tell us what special knowledge you have which appears to be denied to the broad scientific community who have been unable to explain a number of happenings ?

Ha! No special knowledge required, OT. Just a smidgin of logic and a bit of experience of life. After a while, one realises that there is a logical explanation for every happening on this earth, though it's often less entertaining than the mythical explanations or declaration of 'now explain that!' that often takes the place of logic. My mother's assumption that nightly vibrations in her bedroom were my father's ghost, rather than the more banal (but real) explanation that it was in fact the 2,000 ton stone train on the nearby railway is a typical example of this.

Of course it's also easier to apportion events to 'supernatural' cause, rather than route out what was the real cause, and it is a human failing to often seek the 'easy' option.

It's relatively harmless among adults to relate supernatural tales that (we hope!) no-one takes seriously. But any children reading this might be more easily scared by these amusing but basically tosh-full tales. As Vincent Price said, it is harder to scare the pants off someone once those pants become long! :D

Now stop protesting that your tosh is real, but do please keep the stories coming - some are quite entertaining!

By the way, what happenings has science has not been able to explain? There are none, as far as I know. If you know of a happening (not just 'something someone saw', but an actual happening which has been proved to be real rather than imagined) that science has been unable to explain, let's hear it. Please bear in mind that thunder and lightning, and total eclipses were once though to be supernatural events. We now know better,

Your last sentence, a thinly-veiled attempt to discredit me as a mere 'spotter' (though even if that were true - which it's not - it would be entirely irrelevant in this context as we are discussing the supernatural, not railway operations) does you no credit.
 
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Trog

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In Retirement.
Basically at a audience she was holding during WW2, she declared that HMS Hood had been sunk earlier in the day. The time was 1530.

Brigadier Firebrace, a very enthusiastic believer in Spiritualism, who was the Chief of Security at the time in Scotland, attended that séance. He returned to his office and telephoned the Admiralty to see whether, as he called it, the rumour of the sinking was true. At that time it was denied.

By 21:30, as he was leaving the office, a telephone call was received from the Admiralty confirming the sinking at 13:30.

The evidence given by Mrs. Duncan was accurate. However, the authorities were clearly worried that this information coming from a third party rather than Central Government could undermine public morale. Particularly, when this country was secretly preparing allied troops for the D-Day landings.

At the time of these sinkings being announced by Helen Duncan, no-one not even the Admiralty had received notification so no-one knew.


A quick read through copies of the Admiralty reports on the sinking of the Hood, available on the HMS Hood Association Web site. Shows that the Hood sank at about 06:00. By 10:07 her consort HMS Prince of Wales was sending a second more detailed damage report. Suggesting they were in radio contact with the Admiralty at will.

Given that, I would suggest the sinking would have been known by the Admiralty very quickly. Just delayed by a minute or so to get over the shock and compose a message, plus coding and decoding. Thats if they even bothered to encode a straight forward factual message that concerned an event witnessed two by radio fitted German Navy ships.

Even if you allow for the Admiralty times being local not British, the Denmark Straight is only at GMT - 2hours, and allow for the difference between GMT and Double British Summer time adding another two hours. That would mean the Admiralty getting the news at say 10:15 DBST. So as all the times in the above appear not to be correct, it rather makes me wonder about the rest of the tale.

The fact that this all took place in may 1941, six months before Pearl Harbour and three years before the Normandy Invasion. Also makes the reference to the morale of the D day troops a bit strange.
 

Old Timer

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You conveniently ignore the many Helen Duncan issue because it fails to fit into your neat closed mind opinion.

The RAF (for example) is happy to accept that there a a number of happenings on their airfields which cannot be explained. Military Police are stout fellows not easily fooled.

In other walks of life, the Police themselves have experienced happening which neither they nor others can explain.

You purport to be the font of all wisdoim in declaring that there is no such thing as the supernatural and then go on to say
By the way, what happenings has science has not been able to explain? There are none, as far as I know.
when even the simplest google will reveal that all is not a sit seems to be in your own private world.

Now I do not wish to become embroiled in a long winded and ultimately pointless debate with you about whether the supernatural exists or not. Your mind is completely closed whether genuinely or simply to troll the thread I do not know. IN any case it is a debate that I have no wish to get involved with. Suffice, unlike you, I am happy to accept that things some of which I have experienced myself) have occurred which defy rational explanation both on the Railways and on RAF airfields

You have been given a number of examples for which there is no rational explanation, unfortunately these do not appear on your radar. Your continued aspertions and protests that there is no such thing flies in the face of even the simplest of searches, indeed much is made of well documented ghosts in the UKs tourism sites.

I suggest it would more constructive if you were to leave the thread alone, rather than spoiling it by suggesting every post that does not meet your own personal view is "tosh" and "B.......t".

Your last paragraph answers my question. You are almost certainly not a frontline Railwayman, so your experience of life, whatever it is, precludes you being about on the railway infrastructure in places and at times that passengers do not go. This makes any contradiction of experiences by operational Railwaymen somewhat less than acceptable, and funnily enough I do rather take issue with you declaring on the validity of what I have seen.

You would clearly not know that there are places about the Railway where there are "atmospheres" that are felt by many, and places where things happen that cannot be explained away logically. Even then I doubt you would accept such things.

It would therefore be rather more fitting for you to accept that you are in no position to comment on things that are not only outside of your experience but also of your knowledge. The thread is originally about Railway ghosts. If you want to enter into a debate about the existence of ghost then why not open a separate thread.
 
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