Are our railways haunted? (ghost stories)

[Drsatan]

I've read somewhere that a ghost train has been seen on the Wotton - Newport section (which was torn up in 1971) of the Ryde-Newport railway. Apparently the ghost train consists of an O2 and a few non-corridor coaches.

 

[moonrakerz]

Couple of true stories if I may.

This involves a commecrial flight operated by Eastern Airlines lost over the Florida Everglades.

Components from the a/c were recovered and used in other Eastern aircraft.

On many documented occasions, the Flight Engineer was seen on board a/c that had been fitted with such components, warning of potential incidents. On one occasion he spoke with a Captain who had known him.

All components were removed from other aircraft and the sighting stopped. There was also an exorcism carried out

Sorry old timer, but "stories" is the right word.

The Flight 401 story has as much credibility as Roswell, The Bermuda Triangle and the Nazca Lines being the "approach markings for a UFO airport" - and of course "Bigfoot" !

There is NO actual evidence that any wreckage salvaged from the aircraft was used later.
According to the NTSB accident report the aircraft flew into a swamp at 227 mph. Imagine what that did to the aircraft.

One of the items often quoted as being a cause of paranormal activity is a microwave oven. I really find it somewhat difficult to believe that an item as mundane as a microwave could be cost-effectively refurbished after flying into swamp at 227 mph, and resting there for weeks before being recovered. (If Eastern Airlines were doing this, it is little surprise that they bust some years later !) Other more vital parts of this aircraft would not be allowed by FAA rules to be re-used.

Of course the Book and the TV movie then turned a silly yarn into the "truth" - which is then endlessly quoted as such.

 

[Bittern]

Anyone ever heard of the legend of the ghost of the Tay Bridge?

 

[Old Timer]

There is NO actual evidence that any wreckage salvaged from the aircraft was used later.
According to the NTSB accident report the aircraft flew into a swamp at 227 mph. Imagine what that did to the aircraft..

1) I suggest you look at some of the photographs of the scene.
2) You have definitive evidence that no components were used in other a/c. ? You ABSOLUTELY certain ? Because Eastern Airlines records actually confirm this took place, as did records showing that all the components were recovered from other aircaraft soon after.
3) Even a Vice-President of Eastern Airlines saw one of the ghosts. Hardly someone who would admit to being a believer.
4) Have you actually done any reasearch into what happens to components from crashed a/c. ? Had you done so you would ralise that what can be salvaged and re-used IS. As for the NTSB they do not nmake the decision as to whether or not salvaged components are re-used. Indeed they have very little actual power, as even their accident report recommendations in the main can and are regularly ignored.

I should do a little research before you make yourself start to look silly

 

[90019]

As for the NTSB they do not nmake the decision as to whether or not salvaged components are re-used. Indeed they have very little actual power, as even their accident report recommendations in the main can and are regularly ignored.

Indeed, it seems a bit odd that they can only make recommendations to make the airlines safer, ones that they can ignore if they don't think it's worth it.

 

[Old Timer]

Indeed, it seems a bit odd that they can only make recommendations to make the airlines safer, ones that they can ignore if they don't think it's worth it.

There are a couple of reasons.

Firstly the role of the NTSB is to investigate and establish the probable cause of accidents/incidents.

In order to do this it need to be independent of Law Enforcement so that its work will not be impeded by the risk of Prosecution of witnesses.

Safety is the responsibility of the operator, and cannot be taken on by the NTSB for a whole myriad of reasons.

However compelling, the NTSB Recommendations have no force in Law unless unless this is taken up by the Federal Aviation (or Railroad) Administration (FAA / FRA) who will take the necessary steps to enact Legislation.

In the UK, the AAIB and RAIB are set up in exactly the same way.

 

[90019]

I understand this, I didn't quite phrase it right, but I think that once thay have made their recommendations, then it should be taken up by the FAA or FRA, rather than being left to the operators to choose whether they think it is worthwhile, which often comes down to the cost of it, and whether the risk posed is worth the investment or not.

 

[Old Timer]

Things don't work like that.

Whilst it may be fine for a Safety Report to make Recommendations, there may well be reasons why these are acted upon, not always gfinancial.

If all Recommendations had been followed in the case of Railway Recommendations then there would be no Mk 1 or Mk2 rolling stock running, and tyhere would well be little heritage operations.

Recommendations address an outcome of an incident. It is for the Operator to determine the likelihood of that accident happening again and whether the Recommendations are too onerous given that.

 

[90019]

Things don't work like that.

Whilst it may be fine for a Safety Report to make Recommendations, there may well be reasons why these are acted upon, not always gfinancial.

If all Recommendations had been followed in the case of Railway Recommendations then there would be no Mk 1 or Mk2 rolling stock running, and tyhere would well be little heritage operations.

Recommendations address an outcome of an incident. It is for the Operator to determine the likelihood of that accident happening again and whether the Recommendations are too onerous given that.

I understand what you're saying, but when it's more major saftey issues, I don't think it should be given to companies to decide whether it's worth it.

 

[Old Timer]

I think the answer to that is to look at the way that Local Authorities and other Statutory Bodies react when they can apply safety without any need to consider the consequences of such decisions.

Bans on conkers, bans on street decorations, bans on flower displays, playgrounds closed.

Looking at the Police, prosecutions for eating apples whilst parked up at traffic lights, roads closed for inordinate times, etc.

 

[Kernowfem]

Anyone ever heard of the legend of the ghost of the Tay Bridge?

Yep RPM elite, ive heard of this one. Legend has it that on the yearly anniversary of the disaster it replays itself. Many people claimed to have seen the train all lit up going along where the old bridge was and then suddenly plummet downwards....

Theres also a story of a phantom train at alcholme bridge (elsham) in lincolnshire. During foggy nights it said to be seen travelling slowly along the line shrouded in a glow....

 

[moonrakerz]

Have you actually done any reasearch into what happens to components from crashed a/c. ? Had you done so you would ralise that what can be salvaged and re-used IS. As for the NTSB they do not nmake the decision as to whether or not salvaged components are re-used. Indeed they have very little actual power, as even their accident report recommendations in the main can and are regularly ignored.

I should do a little research before you make yourself start to look silly

Oh Dear Oh Dear - you accuse me of looking silly, perhaps you should first look at what you have just said:-
"As for the NTSB they do not nmake the decision as to whether or not salvaged components are re-used"


Now look at what I actually said:-

"would not be allowed by FAA rules to be re-used." (My additional highlighting)

If you can't even quote me correctly .................... I rest my case !

 

[Old Timer]

Oh well in that case of course you must be right and I must be wrong :roll:

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

A colleague of mine says he once saw a nail fly into notice board (or similar) at a cabin next to a Railway on Teesside, he's not the only one to have seen it, and apparently it is a railman who was killed nearby who does it.

 

[CosherB]

Oh well in that case of course you must be right and I must be wrong :roll:

Um, yes. So why the :roll:?

 

[Old Timer]

Um, yes. So why the :roll:?

Simply because the accidental use of NTSB (I was writing two responses at the time one involving the NTSB), in no way validates the argument whatsoever, and it is juvenille to have responded as if that negated the point I was making.

The poster has little (if any) knowledge about the re-use of components from crashed aircraft, and as much knowledge about the FAA involvement in such practices.

On that basis I see no point in continuing what will ultimately become a verbal tennis match and is in any case is thread creep.

The original poster sought tales of the supernatural but was quickly swamped by so called "sceptics" seeking to proclaim the over-riding validity of their personal beliefs, and a simple statement of fact then became a debate where opinion made up for knowledge.

Maybe the Mods can get the thread back on topic and possibly split this thread up.

 

[CosherB]

The original poster sought tales of the supernatural but was quickly swamped by so called "sceptics" seeking to proclaim the over-riding validity of their personal beliefs.

Maybe the Mods can get the thread back on topic and possibly split this thread up.

If one starts a thread on the supernatural, one can't be surprised if those of us who don't believe their is any such thing express that view. So the thread is on track.

If you were to call for the exclusion of such posts, it would amount to gagging of rational contributors to this forum.

However, I do enjoy a good ghost story as long as no-one starts to take them seriously. We must just remember that that's all they are - stories.

So bring 'em on! But please don't tell me it's real!

 

[royaloak]

Its a sorry state of affairs when a fun thread like this is taken over by miscreants just causing trouble.

Not exactly a haunting, but wasn't there a Class 47 that drove in to a passenger train at Barnetby renumbered prior to the incident by British Rail who had been contacted by a medium to say that there would be an accident involving a locomotive with its previous number?

That was 47216 which was renumbered 47299 after a psychic "saw" it being involved in an accident, THEN it was involved in a fatal accident here-
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Wrawby1983.pdf

 

[Old Timer]

However, I do enjoy a good ghost story as long as no-one starts to take them seriously. We must just remember that that's all they are - stories.

So bring 'em on! But please don't tell me it's real!

Is it really too much for you to simply leave the thread alone rather than continually trying to suggest there is no such thing as the paranormal. ?

To quote Shakespeare "The lady doth protest too much methinks" (Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222–230).

Your closed mind and arrogance is starting to distract I think, almost to the point of becoming a troll..

 

[Kernowfem]

If one starts a thread on the supernatural, one can't be surprised if those of us who don't believe their is any such thing express that view. So the thread is on track.

If you were to call for the exclusion of such posts, it would amount to gagging of rational contributors to this forum.

However, I do enjoy a good ghost story as long as no-one starts to take them seriously. We must just remember that that's all they are - stories.

So bring 'em on! But please don't tell me it's real!

I believe 'one' started a thread asking for general tales of railway hauntings...purely on the basis i enjoyed them very much as a child, and like yourself still enjoy a good ghost story. I didn't want a war of words however, and i find it regrettable that a light hearted thread has become a paranormal debate. Again i see you have used the word 'rational' to describe people who do not believe in the paranormal. And once again i repeat im sure those who do believe would not appreciate being classed as irational, would you refer to thousands of christians, catholics, hindus, muslims etc as being irational for following their beliefs?? As for my self....i have never witnessed anything that would prove to me that ghosts exist, in fact im on the fence on this one. i refuse to rule out the possibilty, but at the same time would like to see some form of proof, so i try to keep an open mind on the subject, and the last time i checked i was fully rational (i think!) Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and i for one would never tell you that a story is real, it is for the individual to make up their own mind

Keep the storys coming...thankyou

 

[moonrakerz]

Simply because the accidental use of NTSB (I was writing two responses at the time one involving the NTSB), in no way validates the argument whatsoever, and it is juvenille to have responded as if that negated the point I was making.

The poster has little (if any) knowledge about the re-use of components from crashed aircraft, and as much knowledge about the FAA involvement in such practices.

I did say that I would rest my case but as Old man has questioned my comments on this subject - let us just apply a bit of good old fashioned common sense:-

I return to my original point about re use of components from Flight 401.
1. The aircraft dived into a swamp.
2. The aircraft was totally destroyed
3. The wreckage remained in the swamp for some time prior to recovery
4. All the wreckage would have been quarantined after recovery
5. The investigation lasted around 2 years, during which time the components would only have been handled by the investigating team from the NTSB.
6. The disposal of the wreckage after this would be difficult to determine. It officially belongs to the Insurers but the NTSB might well have insisted that some/all of it was retained. (as happened with the wreckage from the Lockerbie bombing, which up until last year was still at Farnborough.)

Are we really to believe that after all this time a microwave oven was then refurbished, fitted into another aircraft and then apparitions of the dead crew appeared INSIDE this oven ..........small crew ? big oven ? The premise is just laughable !

please pull the other one !

Anyone who really believes this cannot be taken seriously.

That really is my last word.

 

[CosherB]

would you refer to thousands of christians, catholics, hindus, muslims etc as being irational for following their beliefs??

Well, I wasn't going to ge there, but since you ask me the direct question, then the answer is 'yes of course'. If it was otherwise, my logic would be inconsistant. The Oxford English dictionary defines Rational as:

• adjective 1: based on or in accordance with reason or logic.

Therefore anyone who belives in something that cannot be proved by reason or logic is by that definition, irational. The same goes for those who believe in fairys and astrology, among other whacky un-provable stuff.

Sorry to everyone else for the thread-drift, but I was asked that direct question. Please continue with the stories.

 

[Oswyntail]

.....
Therefore anyone who belives in something that cannot be proved by reason or logic is by that definition, irational. The same goes for those who believe in fairys and astrology, among other whacky un-provable stuff......

Isn't language wonderful! "Irrational" as in the straight dictionary definition does indeed cover an entire spectrum from Faith to Fantasy. Unfortunately, in modern English it tends to have a perjorative overtone, allowing CS to introduce the "whacky" criticism. However, people with faith (including a faith in the supernatural) can often produce quite cogent reasons for their faith. They may not be grounded in the physical realm of measurable "science" but, as they are based in reason, that makes them equally rational.
Me, i love topic drift

 

[jopsuk]

They're based in something that resembles reason, until you start examining it closely and get caught in a loop of circular justification...

 

[Kernowfem]

Well, I wasn't going to ge there, but since you ask me the direct question, then the answer is 'yes of course'. If it was otherwise, my logic would be inconsistant. The Oxford English dictionary defines Rational as:

• adjective 1: based on or in accordance with reason or logic.

Therefore anyone who belives in something that cannot be proved by reason or logic is by that definition, irational. The same goes for those who believe in fairys and astrology, among other whacky un-provable stuff.

In that case considering how huge religion/beliefs are in the world, i suppose the irrational are in a majority, and the rational a minority. Im more than comfortable with this And dont worry, i wont be asking you any more direct questions...heaven forbid we should go off topic again...
Oh bugger, i mentioned heaven...i must be having an irrational moment

Question on topic:: Has anyone read Railway ghosts and phantoms by W.B Herbert? Some excellent stories in there.

 

[Old Timer]

Are we really to believe that after all this time a microwave oven was then refurbished, fitted into another aircraft and then apparitions of the dead crew appeared INSIDE this oven ..........small crew ? big oven ? The premise is just laughable !

please pull the other one !

Anyone who really believes this cannot be taken seriously.

That really is my last word.

You continue to demonstrate agin your lack of knowledge driven presumably by the warm feeling that what YOU personally believe is correct.

As far as I am concerned that is fine BUT please do not try to represent you views as facts.

Fact : the a/c was not totally destroyed as an analysis of the photographs confirms ;
Fact : recovery started straight away ;
Fact : Eastern Airlines did re-use parts from the crashed a/c
Fact : no-one was seen inside the microwave
Fact : as i have already pointed out, a VICE CHAIRMAN of Eastern Airlines saw one of the deceased crew during a flight ;
Fact : Eastern Airlines had a series of documented reports from various flight staff who had seen the deceased, including a senior Captain ;
Fact : Eastern Airlines recovered the components that had been reused

Thankfully this will have been you last word. Frankly I am getting somewhat tired of having to correct these things.

 

[Moodster020]

Getting back to the topic in hand, rather than the waffle & Counter-waffle over the existence of ghosts, etc

There's an Old derelict railway tunnel near me that's haunted, here's a video some local paranormal investigators took of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J97VMAvCQo8

 

[CosherB]

Fact : as i have already pointed out, a VICE CHAIRMAN of Eastern Airlines saw one of the deceased crew during a flight

That's not a fact. It might be a fact to say 'a VICE CHAIRMAN of Eastern Airlines thought (or 'reported that') he saw one of the deceased crew during a flight'.

If you're going to patronise other posters as is your style, please at least be accurate.

 

[73110]

Why hasn't a moderator been and pruned this thread? So much rubbish in here, there are loads of posts that shouldn't be here, lots of willy-waving too by the looks if things, mods please cut out the rubbish and get this thread back on track please!

 

[37401]

lots of willy-waving too by the looks if things,

Couldnt help but laugh at that