£25 flat fare in FIRST CLASS on East Coast

[All Line Rover]

And what did they charge for an adult?

£39.

Except on weekends, when the service is awful.

I disagree with that. Virgin charge MUCH less for a weekend upgrade than East Coast do (£5 for a child, £10 for the Birmingham route, £15 for any other route), and they also allow free access to their First Class lounges with a weekend upgrade (unlike East Coast). You can't complain about not getting a sandwich when all you've spent is £15, which gets you a bigger seat, free biscuits and drinks, and access to First Class lounges which have even more snacks and drinks. It only costs me £5!

Strange how you can build a train for millions of pounds a set, yet not even make an attempt to align seats to windows, put trolley storage shelters opposite tables, meaning people have to look at a massive lump of metal for the whole journey, and make windows about three inches tall!

I completely agree with all that, except the last bit about the windows. How tall do they need to be?

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't trust figures. If they make £3 profit per journey, and sell First Class tickets at £399 (which people do buy) then surely they'd be losing money on a £17 First Class ticket (which they are more than happy to sell)!

I wonder where all that cash goes?

Some tickets and some fares will naturally subsidise others.

You cannot honestly believe any train company can make a profit on £12.00, MAN-EUS. Given that they also give you a couple of soft drinks and a sandwich and cake. And free WiFi. And lounge access.

 

[All Line Rover]

Some tickets and some fares will naturally subsidise others.

You cannot honestly believe any train company can make a profit on £12.00, MAN-EUS. Given that they also give you a couple of soft drinks and a sandwich and cake. And free WiFi. And lounge access.

They probably don't make a profit, no, but I don't use the WiFi!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

£39.



I disagree with that. Virgin charge MUCH less for a weekend upgrade than East Coast do (£5 for a child, £10 for the Birmingham route, £15 for any other route), and they also allow free access to their First Class lounges with a weekend upgrade (unlike East Coast). You can't complain about not getting a sandwich when all you've spent is £15, which gets you a bigger seat, free biscuits and drinks, and access to First Class lounges which have even more snacks and drinks. It only costs me £5!



I completely agree with all that, except the last bit about the windows. How tall do they need to be?

That makes the EC offer look like very good VFM!

On the Anglo-Scotland route, you get drinks / biscuits offered ONCE south of Preston, then nothing north thereafter. Aside from Euston (where only the traditional lounge is open) there are no lounges either. Wi-Fi was free in Standard too for a period in early 2011. 1st is also exceptionally busy on weekends up to Glasgow, especially on Sunday, I have known them not offering upgrades due to oit being too full!

The windows should be large enough so that people don't have to duck down to look out of them, look at HSTs etc for good examples!

 

[All Line Rover]

That makes the EC offer look like very good VFM!

On the Anglo-Scotland route, you get drinks / biscuits offered ONCE south of Preston, then nothing north thereafter. Aside from Euston (where only the traditional lounge is open) there are no lounges either. Wi-Fi was free in Standard too for a period in early 2011. 1st is also exceptionally busy on weekends up to Glasgow, especially on Sunday, I have known them not offering upgrades due to oit being too full!

The windows should be large enough so that people don't have to duck down to look out of them, look at HSTs etc for good examples!

Do you mean Birmingham to Scotland or Euston to Scotland? Something is always served north of Preston on Euston to Scotland services on weekdays. On certain breakfast services customers get served breakfast twice (once between London and Preston and again between Preston and Glasgow).

Virgin always serve something filling to customers travelling between London and Scotland (on weekdays) unlike East Coast's sandwiches.

Let's also remember that Virgin were offering £25 fares between London and Manchester, and £19 fares between London and Birmingham - both included meals, both included First Class lounge access at either end, and both were half price for children.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Do you mean Birmingham to Scotland or Euston to Scotland? Something is always served north of Preston on Euston to Scotland services on weekdays. On certain breakfast services customers get served breakfast twice (once between London and Preston and again between Preston and Glasgow).

Virgin always serve something filling to customers travelling between London and Scotland (on weekdays) unlike East Coast's sandwiches.

Let's also remember that Virgin were offering £25 fares between London and Manchester, and £19 fares between London and Birmingham - both included meals, both included First Class lounge access at either end, and both were half price for children.

Everything I said in my previous post was in reference to their frankly pathetic weekend service, not weekday.

 

[WestCoast]

On the Anglo-Scotland route, you get drinks / biscuits offered ONCE south of Preston, then nothing north thereafter.

That depends on whether or not they have a host on doesn't it? Nevertheless, you can still collect "treats" from the shop! Which is more than you can do on XC at least!

 

[Darandio]

I thought this thread was entitled "£25 flat fare in FIRST CLASS on East Coast" and not "Virgin are ammmaaaaazing". :?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

That depends on whether or not they have a host on doesn't it? Nevertheless, you can still collect "treats" from the shop!

Which if you are in K means walking through six coaches, not a very good service. At least on FGW etc, the buffet is only two (or three maximum) coaches away!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I thought this thread was entitled "£25 flat fare in FIRST CLASS on East Coast" and not "Virgin are ammmaaaaazing". :?

Which is why I am trying to disprove that point and get us back on topic. £25 is excellent IMHO.

 

[All Line Rover]

In actual fact this £25 sale has put me off travelling with East Coast completely on my ALR next month. Other people in the carriage will be on £25 tickets! I won't be getting much value.

I think I'll skip East Coast and travel on Arriva's Premier Service for the Evening Meal. I'm sure it's far superior.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Which is why I am trying to disprove that point and get us back on topic. £25 is excellent IMHO.

Do you still qualify for child tickets?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

In actual fact this £25 sale has put me off travelling with East Coast completely on my ALR next month. Other people in the carriage will be on £25 tickets! I won't be getting much value.

I think I'll skip East Coast and travel on Arriva's Premier Service for the Evening Meal. I'm sure it's far superior.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Do you still qualify for child tickets?

On any given train you will have people in 1st on cheap advances and those who paid full fare! Sorry, that sounds so self-centred.

A quick look at my profile will tell you, no. (If you have time, please check out my new albums.)

 

[All Line Rover]

That depends on whether or not they have a host on doesn't it? Nevertheless, you can still collect "treats" from the shop! Which is more than you can do on XC at least!

Only once did I have to go to the shop with Virgin - it was a Super Voyager. I got a whole goodie box, full of biscuits! What surprised me is that the Train Manager later came through with the trolley, giving people even more biscuits! Excellent service...

 

[WestCoast]

The windows should be large enough so that people don't have to duck down to look out of them, look at HSTs etc for good examples!

You wouldn't like a Shinkansen then, makes Pendolinos windows look huge! I believe the "small" windows are down to an overly cautious approach to the tilting profile at 9 degrees (more so than the APT e.t.c). I am not supporting the design, just stating the reasoning behind it.

Only once did I have to go to the shop with Virgin - it was a Super Voyager. I got a whole goodie box, full of biscuits! What surprised me is that the Train Manager later came through with the trolley, giving people even more biscuits! Excellent service...

Hmmm, I have a mental image of a box of various types of biscuits....

Which is why I am trying to disprove that point and get us back on topic. £25 is excellent IMHO.

It is an excellent offer, obviously highly promotional in nature to boost numbers though! They are hoping it will raise the profile of the service. To be honest, if it doesn't work, I can see the service being paired down to a more minimal weekend offering.

Let's not go down the route of which TOC is better in First Class. Both have their postive and negative points. We can agree that they are both better than the minimal offerings on the likes of XC, EMT and to a slightly lesser extent, FGW.

Which if you are in K means walking through six coaches, not a very good service. At least on FGW etc, the buffet is only two (or three maximum) coaches away!

Yes, that is true. However, it's not so good if you are at the other end of Standard though (which is the main market for that service), or you are sat in the buffet/first class composite coach!

 

[All Line Rover]

On any given train you will have people in 1st on cheap advances and those who paid full fare! Sorry, that sounds so self-centred.

A quick look at my profile will tell you, no. (If you have time, please check out my new albums.)

If you don't qualify for child tickets then perhaps that is a slight explanation for why you aren't bothered about child tickets not being available? In actual fact you're probably quite happy about that!

I have looked at First Class Advance fares on East Coast's "Evening Meal" services previously, and they were quite high. I've just looked at the sale, and every single service has the £25 fares! Virgin usually charge £60+ on their Evening Meal services from Euston - it's understandable that when I'm on an ALR, I wan't to go on the most expensive services possible.

 

[causton]

In actual fact this £25 sale has put me off travelling with East Coast completely on my ALR next month. Other people in the carriage will be on £25 tickets! I won't be getting much value.

There will always be people paying different fares. I don't stop getting on London buses because some people get them for free!*


*I stop getting on them cause they're slow

 

[YorkshireRider]

, and they also allow free access to their First Class lounges with a weekend upgrade (unlike East Coast). , and access to First Class lounges which have even more snacks and drinks. It only costs me £5!

I think its to ECs credit (also NX and GNER before them) that only open FC tickets can be used in the lounge, although you can pay a supplement on advance tickets. It helps keep the first class lounge first class.

On the offer, it is pretty good but they must up the food orders to prevent a lot of unhappy people if there is a big take up of the offer. Been told it is available on most trains but none which arrive into Kings X before 11am mon-fri.

 

[lyndhurst25]

I've never really agreed to limiting access to First Class lounges to only certain types of first class ticket. To me first class is first class and all should be equal. What EC have is first-class first class, second-class first class and second (standard) class. May as will bring back 1st, 2nd and 3rd...

 

[WestCoast]

I've never really agreed to limiting access to First Class lounges to only certain types of first class ticket. To me first class is first class and all should be equal. What EC have is first-class first class, second-class first class and second (standard) class. May as will bring back 1st, 2nd and 3rd...

Agreed, if you buy a business class airline ticket, it doesn't matter what tier of fare you purchased, access to the lounge is still granted...

 

[DarloRich]

Virgin charged just £19.50 for London to Glasgow child tickets in their last seat sale - even better value!

I quite like Pendolinos thank you very much. The First Class service is excellent, the carraiges don't smell of poo, the First Class seats are just as good as on East Coast, there are plenty of windows in First Class, and I quite like the "space ship" feel. The food is also excellent. Each to their own is what I say...

I am not a kid so £25 is a GOOD deal! I dislike Pendos but not as much as i dislike Crapagers. The Pendo are not as nice as a proper train. It is, after all, just a unit that leans over

 

[All Line Rover]

I am not a kid so £25 is a GOOD deal! I dislike Pendos but not as much as i dislike Crapagers. The Pendo are not as nice as a proper train. It is, after all, just a unit that leans over

I appreciate that the offer is excellent for adults who live on the East Coast route, so good for you.

Considering Virgin Trains are my "local" operator (if you can call them that) it's probably a good thing that I like them.

(To continue discussion about the North East or Milton Keynes, go here. Please keep this topic tidy for people to discuss the £25 EC offer only, thanks!)

 

[Deerfold]

There will always be people paying different fares. I don't stop getting on London buses because some people get them for free!*


*I stop getting on them cause they're slow

Have you tried them on a weekday night - they can be quite quick when there's hardly any other traffic around!

 

[causton]

Have you tried them on a weekday night - they can be quite quick when there's hardly any other traffic around!

Ooh yes- but I'm used to buses that pass more than 2 consecutive stops without someone wanting to get on or off, like the ones we have in Hertfordshire :P

 

[Yew]

Looking on the EC mixing deck, ive ansererd some questions i expect to come up


Is this an advance style ticket or more flexible
This ticket it valid for the booked train only

Would railcard discounts apply?
Railcard discounts do not apply to this flat fare

 

[Aictos]

Already looking at a weekend away,

 

[route:oxford]

All booked, return trip on the Highland Chieftan - bargain!

 

[alloneword100]

I don't trust figures. If they make £3 profit per journey, and sell First Class tickets at £399 (which people do buy) then surely they'd be losing money on a £17 First Class ticket (which they are more than happy to sell)!

I wonder where all that cash goes?

It's all about fixed costs and marginal costs. If, on average, it costs say £100 per passenger for London to Manchester, you would assume that no ticket should be priced at under £100, since they are 'loss-making'. However, if the cost of carrying one MORE passenger is only £16 (sandwiches, etc), then that sale adds £1 to profits.

The railway is a business with very high fixed costs and generally low marginal costs (until you get to the point where the train is full and you need to add another coach, at which point the marginal cost for that particular passenger is astronomic...).

The trick is to segment your market enough to get sufficient customers paying over the average cost and meeting the fixed costs, so that you can then fill the rest of the train with passengers paying less than the average cost but more than the marginal cost. If they do, they are not loss leaders - the only loss leaders are where the price doesn't meet the marginal cost. London to Inverness at £25 is probably a loss leader, London to Manchester at £17 might be too, but I'm not so sure.

 

[All Line Rover]

The trick is to segment your market enough to get sufficient customers paying over the average cost and meeting the fixed costs, so that you can then fill the rest of the train with passengers paying less than the average cost but more than the marginal cost. If they do, they are not loss leaders - the only loss leaders are where the price doesn't meet the marginal cost. London to Inverness at £25 is probably a loss leader, London to Manchester at £17 might be too, but I'm not so sure.

To put it simply, London to Manchester at £17 is not a loss leader on a train at 20% capacity, but is a loss leader on a train at 90%+ capacity.

 

[philjo]

Have they got something against Stevenage (as the new timetable doesn't have may direct trains to Newcastle/Scotland)?

Have tried booking on the 14:50 from Aberdeen which stops at Stevenage.
Cannot find any dates where it will let me book the £25 offer but it will on the same train if the destination is Peterborough or Kings Cross.

 

[Bristol Rover]

Excellent offer. Booked a few trips from London to York/Harrogate.

 

[Failed Unit]

I was amazed to find seats on the 1700 service at £25 that is less than most people spent in the restuarants in the past. Likewise most journeys I looked up cost less than standard! Very few non-available. The offer is too good to be true. I hope they don't let themselves down and have a hot meal on offer and enough sandwiches to stop the Anglo-scottish mob going hungry and never returning.