125, class 43, HST

[YesToHS2]

Is it just me or does anyone else think that the 125 is an attractive train, sleek and powerful. Not sure why I like it so much but it will be sad to see them go. I think it has something to do with the sheer power and the fact that its still the fasted diesel loco in operation today.

 

[pinkpanther]

We pretty much said the same about the Deltics in 1980s (and detested the "Flying Bananas" (HSTs) that displaced them...).

Funny how times change!

 

[TGV]

True. We'll say the same thing when the Pendolino's go in 30 years time...

 

[E&W Lucas]

Sentimentality aside, they're one of the great success stories of UK rail history. Not bad for something intended as a cheap and cheerful stop gap until the APT was up and running. Perhaps there's a lesson to be learned from that, the next time someone proposes an over - complex and over - engineered successor. Fantastic machines, that I genuinely enjoy driving.

 

[WestCoast]

True. We'll say the same thing when the Pendolino's go in 30 years time...

Pendolino farewell tour, can you imagine that?

 

[YesToHS2]

I do like pendolinos and usually I'm pro technology. Maybe I'm getting old. I do like a good old deltic also, haven't seen one yet though. The engine itself is just insane.

There's nothing like the HST brilliantly simple.

 

[imagination]

Yes I can imagine a pendolino farewell tour. Only thing is it won't be as big a thing as the end of the HST - as the latter operate/d over a far larger amount of Britain's rail network than the pendolinos

 

[WestCoast]

I do like pendolinos and usually I'm pro technology. Maybe I'm getting old. I do like a good old deltic also, haven't seen one yet though. The engine itself is just insane.

There's nothing like the HST brilliantly simple.

The thing about the HSTs is that they look so modern - the class 43 as a loco has a particularly sleek and modern look. In my opinion, the class 91s look older !

I have asked quite a few people who know little about trains about HSTs and most of them thought it was a new train from first glance! The CrossCountry and East Coast Mark 3s have been refurbished internally to such high levels that they could easily pass for new coaches. If it wasn't for the doors, many people would see the HST/Mark 3 as brand new!

I like Pendolinos too - I don't find them as cramped as some people make out - and I think as 11 car formations they will be ideal for the WCML. They are well suited to their purpose in other words and on the whole I have had pleasant journeys on them (no tilting sickness, no toilet smells).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes I can imagine a pendolino farewell tour.

When everyone loves them

 

[tbtc]

Yes I can imagine a pendolino farewell tour. Only thing is it won't be as big a thing as the end of the HST - as the latter operate/d over a far larger amount of Britain's rail network than the pendolinos

That's one thing about modern stock. So many trains only run in specific parts of the UK (168, 175, 185 etc) that there won't be the same "farewell" for any modern units

 

[Failed Unit]

That's one thing about modern stock. So many trains only run in specific parts of the UK (168, 175, 185 etc) that there won't be the same "farewell" for any modern units

I wonder if some of them will move around before the end of thier life. The HST's were UK wide anyway but will the 91's do some open access routes before they retire, the 180s are becoming well travelled now!

Looking at a lot of modernish units they have got around a bit.

150/1's were really only the Midlands and Wales (I know the ventured to Ipswich and Leeds as well) but they have hit London and the North and SouthWest now.
150/2's have gone lots of places
153, 156, 158's were nationwide from new.
165's because of the loading gauge have never really moved and probably won't

I suppose it is the policy of short specialist builds that have caused the problems. A 168 and 170 are really the same thing, but the 175s may go elsewhere is the routes were ever electrified.

It is hard to say what we will have a softspot for when they go, the 156 probably for me. The 114s have a place in my heart because I grew up with them, but did prefer the sprinters when they took over (but not the pacers)

 

[tbtc]

I wonder if some of them will move around before the end of thier life. The HST's were UK wide anyway but will the 91's do some open access routes before they retire, the 180s are becoming well travelled now!

Looking at a lot of modernish units they have got around a bit.

150/1's were really only the Midlands and Wales (I know the ventured to Ipswich and Leeds as well) but they have hit London and the North and SouthWest now.
150/2's have gone lots of places
153, 156, 158's were nationwide from new.
165's because of the loading gauge have never really moved and probably won't

I suppose it is the policy of short specialist builds that have caused the problems. A 168 and 170 are really the same thing, but the 175s may go elsewhere is the routes were ever electrified.

It is hard to say what we will have a softspot for when they go, the 156 probably for me. The 114s have a place in my heart because I grew up with them, but did prefer the sprinters when they took over (but not the pacers)

156s are very underrated units. People either like the big/fast trains or the small classes of obscure units, but something "middle of the road" like a 156 is going to be a real loss when they finally go

 

[ainsworth74]

but will the 91's do some open access routes before they retire

I've always thought (for some reason) that 91+mk4s will end up on the London to Norwich route, displacing the 90+mk3s. I have no evidence for that, just seems to make sense to me.

 

[Darandio]

I've always thought (for some reason) that 91+mk4s will end up on the London to Norwich route, displacing the 90+mk3s. I have no evidence for that, just seems to make sense to me.

I dont think it is just you, I think it has been mentioned many times. If they are to be replaced then that is the logical step for them, they are far too young to die surely.

 

[tbtc]

I've always thought (for some reason) that 91+mk4s will end up on the London to Norwich route, displacing the 90+mk3s. I have no evidence for that, just seems to make sense to me.

Either that or the Midland Main Line if it ever gets wired

 

[jopsuk]

It's that, or get EMUs for the Norwich service- there was talk at one stage of five car units similar to 444s (but AC)- allowing capacity to be reduced off-peak but increasing peak capacity (as for the same overall train length you'd gain two carriages)

 

[4SRKT]

Not just the power cars but the mk III coach is a design classic. The HST is the greatest train ever produced in this country, and everything since has been a let down by comparison. Pendolinos? Give me strength. Sh*t smartie tubes with no windows and a cheap plasticky interior full of claustrophobia. Give me a mk III coach, a class 87, and 30 minutes longer to enjoy the experience getting to Glasgow.

I remember being 6 years old and being brought by my dad to Cardiff to sample these new trains. We took a deltic to the Cross, and as we walked across the Lawn at Paddington there was a row of HSTs, quite the most impressive sight I've ever seen. I was awestruck to the depth of my 6 year old soul.

I was less impressed when my dad told me that these trains would soon be on the ECML and the deltics would be displaced

 

[At_traction]

We pretty much said the same about the Deltics in 1980s

Hmm? I personally could hardly await to get the HST (even the acronym oozed modernity and speed ) online in the mid-ish 1970s...

The thing about the HSTs is that they look so modern - the class 43 as a loco has a particularly sleek and modern look. In my opinion, the class 91s look older !

Indeed. The designer improved the prototype's front immeasurably to a true "modern classic". In that sense, Alsthom and BREL IMO dropped the ball somewhat with the Class 91 - although undoubtedly more functional and maintainable(?) in terms of its double-pane windscreen design, it hasn't stood time as well as the 43.

I like Pendolinos too - I don't find them as cramped as some people make out - and I think as 11 car formations they will be ideal for the WCML. They are well suited to their purpose in other words and on the whole I have had pleasant journeys on them (no tilting sickness, no toilet smells).

Ditto.

 

[Train wasp]

With the block closure of the Reading area over the Xmas period. Anyone going to ride on HSTs out of Waterloo or to photograph them between Waterloo and Basingstoke/ Salisbury area.

 

[Geezertronic]

Not just the power cars but the mk III coach is a design classic. The HST is the greatest train ever produced in this country, and everything since has been a let down by comparison. Pendolinos? Give me strength. Sh*t smartie tubes with no windows and a cheap plasticky interior full of claustrophobia. Give me a mk III coach, a class 87, and 30 minutes longer to enjoy the experience getting to Glasgow.

That's your opinion which you're welcome to, although I agree about the HST. Personally I'd rather have a Pendolino (which was assembled in the UK not built in the UK) over a slower train anyday. For me, it's all about getting from A to B as quick a possible. Your mk III, class 87 and 30 minutes longer is an enthusiasts point of view not a commuters point of view.

 

[hstforever81]

With the block closure of the Reading area over the Xmas period. Anyone going to ride on HSTs out of Waterloo or to photograph them between Waterloo and Basingstoke/ Salisbury area.

dam right , my mate and i are doing Westurby to Waterloo and return on the Monday , then i'm going pic hunting on the Tuesday at Farnborough , Brookwood, Pirbright and Fleet.,

They are the best train the UK has ever had. How Virgin thought that a Voyager could possibly replace them (running in 7 car formations) and class 47's with 7 x mk2's i'll never know, i know the 47's were old and pretty much life expired , but the journey on a mk2 is far more comfy than a Voyager.
The rail industry really should take note of the HST design. A whole new fleet of HST's should be built, ED power so they can run with overhead A/C, Third Rail D/C and diesel . modern fittings, wifi ect, slidding plug doors. but i bet we'll get some cramped ****, with small windows, or be a bloody DMU thats noisy underfloor..

 

[RobShipway]

With the block closure of the Reading area over the Xmas period. Anyone going to ride on HSTs out of Waterloo or to photograph them between Waterloo and Basingstoke/ Salisbury area.

I presume the trains for Exeter, Bristol etc.... will be routed from Salisbury or would the Bristol service be routed Basingstoke - Newbury, then on to Bristol?

Also, are these services going from the old International Station at Waterloo?

 

[swt_passenger]

I presume the trains for Exeter, Bristol etc.... will be routed from Salisbury or would the Bristol service be routed Basingstoke - Newbury, then on to Bristol?

Also, are these services going from the old International Station at Waterloo?

Save you looking up the relevant posts from the last few months it is:

South Wales and Bristol > Didcot > Oxford > Banbury > Paddington

Penzance > Plymouth > Exeter > Taunton > Westbury > Salisbury (pass) > Basingstoke (set down only) > Waterloo

Also a Taunton to Theale stopping service hourly

Waterloo platform 19 is thought to be the plan.

 

[RobShipway]

Thanks SWT passenger.

 

[trainplan1]

I've always thought the 91's + MK4's would be such a waste on the GEML.
They would probably be quite unsuitable for the stop start nature of the current services.
Like jopsuk says EMU's would currently be much better.

Though if timings are an issue, I've always toyed with the idea that two 91's per train marshalled like a HST could liven things up... 12,000hp per train anyone?

 

[TGV]

I've always thought the 91's + MK4's would be such a waste on the GEML.
They would probably be quite unsuitable for the stop start nature of the current services.
Like jopsuk says EMU's would currently be much better.

Though if timings are an issue, I've always toyed with the idea that two 91's per train marshalled like a HST could liven things up... 12,000hp per train anyone?

I think the OLE engineers would have a fit...

But yes, I agree, the GEML doesn't really need loco-hauled stock - it's such a short main line that EMU's with appropriate seating would probably be better suited to the nature of services. What's the distances? Liv St to Norwich? Can't be much further than KX to Kings Lyn which is run by a 365!

 

[trainplan1]

I think the OLE engineers would have a fit...

But yes, I agree, the GEML doesn't really need loco-hauled stock - it's such a short main line that EMU's with appropriate seating would probably be better suited to the nature of services. What's the distances? Liv St to Norwich? Can't be much further than KX to Kings Lyn which is run by a 365!

True, and would probably bring everything in the area using the OLE to a stand...

 

[BR 1979]

I am a big fan of HST's for many reasons but the over riding one is that you can still pull down the door window and get some breeze in your hair . Also good for taking photos from without the glass in the way

 

[hairyhandedfool]

.... How Virgin thought that a Voyager could possibly replace them (running in 7 car formations) and class 47's with 7 x mk2's i'll never know, i know the 47's were old and pretty much life expired , but the journey on a mk2 is far more comfy than a Voyager....

Wasn't the idea to replace the old with twice as many new and then extend them to 6/7 car units. The problem being that the DfT didn't like it and stopped the latter orders?

....The rail industry really should take note of the HST design. A whole new fleet of HST's should be built, ED power so they can run with overhead A/C, Third Rail D/C and diesel . modern fittings, wifi ect, slidding plug doors. but i bet we'll get some cramped ****, with small windows, or be a bloody DMU thats noisy underfloor..

I don't actually think there is much stopping them from doing that in reality, if plug doors are needed on the Mk3s, that's not impossible (it's been done before!) although I suspect the crashworthiness tests would require new powercars in time, maybe that 67 derived powercar idea could be re-ignited, with a better looking front end???

 

[BR 1979]

That's your opinion which you're welcome to, although I agree about the HST. Personally I'd rather have a Pendolino (which was assembled in the UK not built in the UK) over a slower train anyday. For me, it's all about getting from A to B as quick a possible. Your mk III, class 87 and 30 minutes longer is an enthusiasts point of view not a commuters point of view.

And the above is only your opinion which is valid for yourself. It depends on what you call commuting ? 30 minutes , 1 hour , 2 hours ? Most people using Pendolinos are not commuters but using services that can run for 4 - 5 hours . From using the network lots over the past 30 years I would rather travel in a MK2 coach behind anything whether that is a 90 an 87 or a MK3 in a HST set than in a Voyager or a Pendolino. As has been stated in another thread standard class in a MK2 / MK3 is not far from 1st in a Pendolino but then MK3's were designed for 'passengers' and not 'customers'

 

[Train wasp]

The most annoying thing about voyagers is the sound from the under floor engines and the constant drone from them. I hope voyagers don’t have longevity unlike HSTs. With any luck the HSTs will out live voyagers.