2020 US Presidential Election

[Whistler40145]

Maybe roll two adverts into one and become the living reincarnation of the Tango man

I thought the slogan 'Gone with the Wind' would be mo appropriate, considering he's full of wind and his surname is alternative for fart

 

[birchesgreen]

If Trump hadn't been president his account would have been banned years ago.

 

[daodao]

There is no need or justification to be vindictive against Trump; he will no longer be POTUS in a few days. The blues need to be mindful of the fact that while they may be in power from 20th Jan 2021, their victory on 3/11/20 (and in Georgia on 5/1/21) was an extremely narrow one. They should be grateful that Trump has lacked competence and consistency, otherwise he would have won, whether or not there had been any stuffing of ballot boxes with postal votes, which I accept has not been proven.

Even the events of Wednesday were bungled, fortunately; if properly organised, a few key operatives could have destroyed the electoral ballot votes, thus invalidating the GE, and taken some prominent Senators/Representatives hostage and only released them when the GE result had been rendered void and emergency rule enacted.

Of far more concern is that the UK still has as PM someone who is similarly uncouth, incompetent and authoritarian (despite professing otherwise) and who is likely to be in post for another 4 years.

 

[dosxuk]

if properly organised, a few key operatives could have destroyed the electoral ballot votes, thus invalidating the GE, and taken some prominent Senators/Representatives hostage and only released them when the GE result had been rendered void and emergency rule enacted.

Do you honestly see this as a likely outcome of Wednesday?! As Mike Pence belatedly announced, the entire thing going on in the capitol is a ceremonial thing, and basically has zero power to discard an election result. Destroying a paper copy of a vote count would never invalidate the entire election, even if you had to go back and get new copies made. Holding people hostage until an election is invalidated is literally a coup, and would only last until the perpetrators were stopped. It still wouldn't invalidate the election. Do you really think the mob at the capitol were ever going to be in a position to take significant numbers of representatives hostage *and* hold off the convinced power of the authorities and the military?

 

[daodao]

Do you honestly see this as a likely outcome of Wednesday?! As Mike Pence belatedly announced, the entire thing going on in the capitol is a ceremonial thing, and basically has zero power to discard an election result. Destroying a paper copy of a vote count would never invalidate the entire election, even if you had to go back and get new copies made. Holding people hostage until an election is invalidated is literally a coup, and would only last until the perpetrators were stopped. It still wouldn't invalidate the election. Do you really think the mob at the capitol were ever going to be in a position to take significant numbers of representatives hostage *and* hold off the convinced power of the authorities and the military?

No, but Trump could have used it as a pretext for imposing emergency rule to "restore order" and suspend implementation of the "contested" election result. He is too incompetent to have undertaken an effective coup.

 

[birchesgreen]

Do you honestly see this as a likely outcome of Wednesday?! As Mike Pence belatedly announced, the entire thing going on in the capitol is a ceremonial thing, and basically has zero power to discard an election result. Destroying a paper copy of a vote count would never invalidate the entire election, even if you had to go back and get new copies made. Holding people hostage until an election is invalidated is literally a coup, and would only last until the perpetrators were stopped. It still wouldn't invalidate the election. Do you really think the mob at the capitol were ever going to be in a position to take significant numbers of representatives hostage *and* hold off the convinced power of the authorities and the military?

Have you read some of the beliefs of the Trump hardcore / QAnon lot? They arn't exactly playing with a full deck.

 

[edwin_m]

There is no need or justification to be vindictive against Trump; he will no longer be POTUS in a few days. The blues need to be mindful of the fact that while they may be in power from 20th Jan 2021, their victory on 3/11/20 (and in Georgia on 5/1/21) was an extremely narrow one. They should be grateful that Trump has lacked competence and consistency, otherwise he would have won, whether or not there had been any stuffing of ballot boxes with postal votes, which I accept has not been proven.

I think that's putting it too weakly. Do you accept that not a shred of evidence has been presented in any of the several dozen court cases that have been brought and thrown out or lost? The only reason a large number of people believe the election to be invalid is that Trump and his followers have been saying so since months before the event. Biden's margin was about 5% of those who voted, which represents a clear majority of those voting despite the vagaries of the electoral college making it look much narrower.

I do agree that a similarly inclined but more capable person would have had a much better chance of pulling this off - fingers seem to be pointing at Josh Hawley.

 

[dosxuk]

No, but Trump could have used it as a pretext for imposing emergency rule to "restore order" and suspend implementation of the "contested" election result. He is too incompetent to have undertaken an effective coup.

Attempt that and the 25th will get tested very quickly, followed by retraction of the emergency rule and restoration of the proceedings.

This whole debacle has focused the republican party on the future. If they're seen to overturn a result (bear in mind trump's term ends on the 20th regardless of a successor being legally appointed, so we're not suggesting he can just hold things up and stay in power, he has to actively cause himself to be announced winner) they know that future elections will be pointless and may as well decide to become a dictatorship instead, and dictatorships tend to end badly for the key people involved when they come to an end.

It amazes me that we're talking about things that have happened in the US here. While I didn't expect him to go quietly, I didn't have "causing an armed attempt to take Congress to nullify the election" anywhere near my list of things I expected to happen. It just beggars belief that anyone can think what's happened is reasonable.

 

[class ep-09]

There is no need or justification to be vindictive against Trump; he will no longer be POTUS in a few days. The blues need to be mindful of the fact that while they may be in power from 20th Jan 2021, their victory on 3/11/20 (and in Georgia on 5/1/21) was an extremely narrow one. They should be grateful that Trump has lacked competence and consistency, otherwise he would have won, whether or not there had been any stuffing of ballot boxes with postal votes, which I accept has not been proven.

Even the events of Wednesday were bungled, fortunately; if properly organised, a few key operatives could have destroyed the electoral ballot votes, thus invalidating the GE, and taken some prominent Senators/Representatives hostage and only released them when the GE result had been rendered void and emergency rule enacted.

Of far more concern is that the UK still has as PM someone who is similarly uncouth, incompetent and authoritarian (despite professing otherwise) and who is likely to be in post for another 4 years.

One could destroy the Electoral College votes that were in the Capitol Hill, but there are copies of the , held by each state .
They could simply be printed and signed by each state legislature again.

Agreed. But an elected leader of a nation needs to be treated separately from private individuals - don't forget 75m people voted for Trump, and these actions are downright incendiary and as irresponsible as he is. They (the democrats and the social media/tech companies which are clearly on the same wavelength) should rise above it, IMO.

And whilst Twitter is a private platform, it is in a position of influence and power and should use it responsibly. As should the other social media companies, and the mainstream media.

As I said, today it might be the anti Trump movement that is in favour, tomorrow it might be something more chilling that gets promoted. How about this from the Chinese government, which Twitter seem OK with? https://twitter.com/ChineseEmbinUS/status/1347247602094534658?s=19

PS don't get me wrong, I abhor Trump and everything he's done, but I'm looking at the bigger picture. The US is teetering on a knife edge and I just don't feel censoring him and the voices of his supporters - and I don't mean those idiots who stormed the Capitol, but the wider voter base - is only going to make things worse.

I remember in 2016 predicting Brexit would happen because of the way fellow remainers were disparaging those who were concerned about the EU; it would only entrench their postion and anger them further. I spoke to friends about it and was laughed at. Then it happened. Trump's election was due to similar issues, and it is only getting worse and worse (and yes he is part of that, but not alone). And in the US there a hell of a lot more at stake. There are civilian militias waiting for their moment - on both sides - and making an example out of trump and his base isn't going to descalate this.

You need to remember that 70+ millions of votes are not always just because of Trump.
Many millions were casted for Trump because he represents GOP ( not anymore me thinks), these people would cast their vote for anybody as long as it is Republican.

Many brexit voters believed lies that were said : we would stay in Single Market, Norway style deal , easiest deal in history and £350mil / week for NHS during campaign.
If they were told the truth, remain would win.

I am surprised it was so close , despite 30+ years of anti EU propaganda from the media ( and BoJo).

 

[ComUtoR]

He tried that and Twitter deleted the tweets almost immediately. Wouldn't surprise me if they disable it until the 20th when they reset the account to zero tweets and hand it to Biden (as has been publicly confirmed)

I saw what he tweeted. He is truly insane.

 

[dgl]

The POTUS account now says that "@POTUS hasn’t Tweeted"

 

[Typhoon]

Agreed. But an elected leader of a nation needs to be treated separately from private individuals - don't forget 75m people voted for Trump, and these actions are downright incendiary and as irresponsible as he is. They (the democrats and the social media/tech companies which are clearly on the same wavelength) should rise above it, IMO.

And whilst Twitter is a private platform, it is in a position of influence and power and should use it responsibly. As should the other social media companies, and the mainstream media.

As I said, today it might be the anti Trump movement that is in favour, tomorrow it might be something more chilling that gets promoted. How about this from the Chinese government, which Twitter seem OK with? https://twitter.com/ChineseEmbinUS/status/1347247602094534658?s=19

There is a lot in what you have written but the regulation of social media organisations is an important issue that deserves widespread debate but in a forum dedicated to just that (to which I won't be contributing as I don't know what the solution might be).

If Twitter had been available for years I would expect these to have been disabled - @realAdolfH, @realJosefS, @real PolP and @realIdiA (especially the former, if he had access to Twitter, I would suggest that WWII would have been more marginal than 'a damned close run thing'). I am not in any way equating Donald Trump to any of these dictators but if you drew a line between them and real democrats you would meet him somewhere along the way. He lost the election, I cannot remember a single case where a vote, even within a county, has been overturned as a result of allegations of voter fraud; in most cases no evidence has been submitted because there is none; he tried to have legitimate elections falsified. Trump may have a point by arguing that he was a victim of the electoral cycle, but that's the way it is - Carter among others could argue the same - but he, and his family, are now inflaming extremists in a way that would have lead to widespread condemnation if it had happened in a former Soviet republic. What the Golf Cart Conservatives in their gated communities think of his instigation of vandalism and insurrection deserves air-time.

Incidentally, the Chinese tweet seems to have been deleted.

You need to remember that 70+ millions of votes are not always just because of Trump.
Many millions were casted for Trump because he represents GOP ( not anymore me thinks), these people would cast their vote for anybody as long as it is Republican.

I may be wrong but I was under the impression that in the US you could vote for a whole ticket in one swoop (President, Senator, Representative, State Secretary of State, Sheriff, probably a Judge or two, Dog Warden); a card carrying Republican would find it all too easy to vote the whole GOP ticket, rather than select all of them except the one at the very top.

 

[najaB]

a card carrying Republican would find it all too easy to vote the whole GOP ticket, rather than select all of them except the one at the very top

That just makes the fact that some did choose to split their ticket even more of a reputation of Trump.

 

[kristiang85]

All replies to my post were very valid points that I can't really disagree with, but it is the overall picture I'm trying to highlight rather than the minitiae of social media rules - this is just one symptom of the ill that are befalling the US (and about to get worse). It seems social media companies are now systematically deleting accounts linked to right wing supporters of Trump and the Republicans; where is the limit? Along with the mainstream US media gleefully jumping on the bandwagon (watching CNN the other night was quite shocking seeing how openly partisan they were), a huge group of people is getting marginalised very very quickly. And now the Democrats control both houses, they need to wield the power responsibly and be contrite about it, not go down to Trump's level, and calm the situation - but given the rhetoric so far, I can't see that happening.

I guess I've got more insight into this now as I've been angered this past year by the silencing of certain science and other voices in the COVID debate; thus now I can see how policial silencing online and in the regular media is happening, the effects it has on people, and why they are only going to get more angry.

I visited the US in 2016 when I still thought Trump was a joke. I got one of those shared taxi things from the airport in LA, and I was lumped with a few random Americans who seemed pretty standard people (none of whom knew each other). They started talking about politics, and the vehement dislike of the arrogance of the Democrats - personified by Hillary Clinton - was incredibly apparent. It was poisonous hatred. And they all agreed with each other that they were voting for Trump that year. I only personally know two Americans who actually did vote for him (or admitted it anyway) - one is a gay bloke from Chicago, and the other a Venezuelan immigrant living in Florida. Both were outside of the expected Trump/Republican demographic; I've never really spoken to them in detail about why they went for Trump, but overall from looking at their comments online it seemed to be more of a frustration of the Democrats forgetting about huge swathes of the country and automatically assuming that anybody 'sensible' would vote for them. Obama was meant to be a unifying President, but ultimately he mostly ignored middle America, and not only has this continued within the Democrat party, but they are becoming openly disparaging of them.

Shutting these people out is not going to heal any wounds. It's only going to make them angrier, and drive them underground. And history has shown us that this never ends well when they eventually pop up again. To go back to my orginal comment that started this debate, the simple action of banning Trump from his main platform is a downright dangerous precedent to set, and I fear we will be seeing serious ramifications for a while yet.

I was speaking to a couple of senior academics at Yale about this yesterday for a few minutes before a work meeting started (obviously very liberal themselves, not all Republican), but they seemed genuinely concerned about what's going to happen next, and they echoed my views. It was quite telling just how worried they seemed about what's going to happen next - and these are not people given into hyperbole, having worked with them for the last 5 years.

(sorry, just typed this post in a rush as I'm about to head out - hope it makes sense!)

 

[najaB]

It seems social media companies are now systematically deleting accounts linked to right wing supporters of Trump and the Republicans; where is the limit?

While that is a talking point on the right, there is no significant left-leaning bias. Accounts are closed when they espouse violence, not because of their political viewpoint.

Social media companies need large user bases to make money, they aren't going to willfully cut their potential profits in half.

 

[SteveM70]

I only personally know two Americans who actually did vote for him (or admitted it anyway) - one is a gay bloke from Chicago, and the other a Venezuelan immigrant living in Florida. Both were outside of the expected Trump/Republican demographi

Anybody who’s fled Venezuela is highly unlikely to vote for a party depicted as being socialist (as the Dems were by Trump). Trump got a lot of votes from that demographic

 

[najaB]

Trump got a lot of votes from that demographic

It's why the GOP used every opportunity to shoehorn the word "socialist" or "socialism" into every media appearance. They tried to go after Rev Warnock because he was a visiting pastor at a church that Fidel Castro spoke at once!

 

[bspahh]

I saw what he tweeted. He is truly insane.

There is an archive of deleted tweets by Trump at

Politwoops

projects.propublica.org

I don't know if its got all of them.

One refers to a 2016 article on a Princeton Professor showing to hack a Dominion voting machine. This seems to be this:

How to Hack an Election in 7 Minutes

With Russia already meddling in 2016, a ragtag group of obsessive tech experts is warning that stealing the ultimate prize—victory on Nov. 8—would be child’s play.

www.politico.com

They picked the lock and replaced a ROM chip.

The professor from that wrote that "(Sidney) Powell’s claims have little merit." as there is a paper backup for the voting machine.
https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/a...-campaign-attorney-sidney-powell-andrew-appel

It includes this quote

Appel, along with 58 other election security experts, has signed a statement affirming that the 2020 presidential election was technologically secure. Another signatory is Edward Felten, who holds an endowed professorship in computer science and public affairs at the University.

 

[py_megapixel]

I don't really 'get' the American stigma around the word "socialist".
To me, socialism represents society as a whole taking responsibility for things which are deemed essential for allowing the human race to exist and have a good standard of life. Of course, in extreme - especially extreme enough that you'd describe it as communism - it can cause issues, but any good society will incorporate some socialist values.

 

[najaB]

I don't really 'get' the American stigma around the word "socialist".

In the USA "socialism" = "communism". A large part of the population genuinely doesn't know the difference.

 

[SteveM70]

I don't really 'get' the American stigma around the word "socialist".
To me, socialism represents society as a whole taking responsibility for things which are deemed essential for allowing the human race to exist and have a good standard of life. Of course, in extreme - especially extreme enough that you'd describe it as communism - it can cause issues, but any good society will incorporate some socialist values.

The “American dream” is essentially selfish

 

[alex397]

I don't really 'get' the American stigma around the word "socialist".
To me, socialism represents society as a whole taking responsibility for things which are deemed essential for allowing the human race to exist and have a good standard of life. Of course, in extreme - especially extreme enough that you'd describe it as communism - it can cause issues, but any good society will incorporate some socialist values.

I agree with you regarding socialism. It doesn’t seem it’s just a stigma in the US, but seems to be in the UK too.
One thing I often hear from ill-informed people is that socialism is bad because a certain party in Germany described themselves as socialist, despite being fascist - a bit like the GDR or North Korea calling themselves ‘democratic’.

 

[dgl]

I wonder how many "Socialist" hating Republicans are waiting on there stimulus cheques?, that's socialism right there and I would assume none of them are turning the cheques down.

 

[edwin_m]

If Twitter had been available for years I would expect these to have been disabled - @realAdolfH, @realJosefS, @real PolP and @realIdiA (especially the former, if he had access to Twitter, I would suggest that WWII would have been more marginal than 'a damned close run thing'). I am not in any way equating Donald Trump to any of these dictators but if you drew a line between them and real democrats you would meet him somewhere along the way. He lost the election, I cannot remember a single case where a vote, even within a county, has been overturned as a result of allegations of voter fraud; in most cases no evidence has been submitted because there is none; he tried to have legitimate elections falsified.

All of those seemed to operate quite effectively on their own terms without the benefit of social media. Until recently Trump had Fox News etc uncritically reporting everything he said, and I wonder if that created enough of a filter bubble without the need for Twitter.

I don't really 'get' the American stigma around the word "socialist".
To me, socialism represents society as a whole taking responsibility for things which are deemed essential for allowing the human race to exist and have a good standard of life. Of course, in extreme - especially extreme enough that you'd describe it as communism - it can cause issues, but any good society will incorporate some socialist values.

I think it's the cold war legacy - the second "S" in USSR stood for Socialist and it's been easy enough for those with an axe to grind to equate it with communism.

 

[overthewater]

I wonder how many "Socialist" hating Republicans are waiting on there stimulus cheques?, that's socialism right there and I would assume none of them are turning the cheques down.

Cooperate Socialist, Big Sugar is one of the worse for that in the USA. its the lobbyist that don't help.

There is no need or justification to be vindictive against Trump; he will no longer be POTUS in a few days. The blues need to be mindful of the fact that while they may be in power from 20th Jan 2021, their victory on 3/11/20 (and in Georgia on 5/1/21) was an extremely narrow one. They should be grateful that Trump has lacked competence and consistency, otherwise he would have won, whether or not there had been any stuffing of ballot boxes with postal votes, which I accept has not been proven.

Even the events of Wednesday were bungled, fortunately; if properly organised, a few key operatives could have destroyed the electoral ballot votes, thus invalidating the GE, and taken some prominent Senators/Representatives hostage and only released them when the GE result had been rendered void and emergency rule enacted.

Of far more concern is that the UK still has as PM someone who is similarly uncouth, incompetent and authoritarian (despite professing otherwise) and who is likely to be in post for another 4 years.

Going by some Democrats there don't seem to understand that point, They are heading for a nasty shock. Come the next set of elections in Nov 2022, there is 3 seats that could flip back mitch. Remember we may have a PM who's is similarly uncouth thankfully his is more left wing compared to the "Leaders waiting in the wings" As much as I hate to say it, were really would be better off with the sheepdog until Labour can get back in.



With Twitter, it seem yes there can do what they like however it means there can no longer say there are a platform?

 

[43096]

Call me cynical, but it's very convenient for Twitter and Facebook to ban him now, as a lame-duck President, 12 days before he goes. Nothing to do with Biden's likely crackdown on "fake news" and the organisations that broadcast it.

 

[najaB]

Call me cynical, but it's very convenient for Twitter and Facebook to ban him now, as a lame-duck President, 12 days before he goes.

And two days after he used them to incite an armed rebellion against the United States which resulted in the deaths of at least five people.

Nothing to do with Biden's likely crackdown on "fake news" and the organisations that broadcast it.

[Citation needed].

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s worth checking out the IMDb ‘trivia’ page for Home Alone 2..

(This is on topic!!)

 

[najaB]

It’s worth checking out the IMDb ‘trivia’ page for Home Alone 2..

(This is on topic!!)

Okay, read the whole thing. Is the relevant part that Trump forced his way into the film, or that he sold the hotel at a loss? Or something else?

 

[Darandio]

Okay, read the whole thing. Is the relevant part that Trump forced his way into the film, or that he sold the hotel at a loss? Or something else?

There was also a now deleted one, something about him being the only cast member to try and incite a riot against the government as well as get banned from social media. Or something along those lines.