24-Hour Glasgow-Edinburgh Service Rejected

[MidnightFlyer]

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Allnight-EdinburghGlasgow-trains-service-rejected.6596163.jp

All-night trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow have been rejected by Network Rail despite the TOC predicting soaring passenger numbers in the two cities.
It looked at the feasibility of non-stop hourly services between midnight and 6am.

However, Network Rail say such a service would not attract the minimum 31-35 passengers per train required to be viable.

 

[Nightrider]

I can remember a so called Edinburgh "paper train" arriving at Glasgow Queen St at 4.30am every morning back in the good old days of BR.
Although it was primarily there to carry newspapers it did also carry passengers.
Looking back it was probably the last of what was left of the GLQ goods yard work.
Have yet to see a photograph of that side of GLQ pre it being turned into a giant car-park.

 

[Invincibles]

It would be OK if you could be certain of which Glasgow station it was going to use, at the Edinburgh end any of the routes between the cities would work.

Were there to be stations at the airports then I suppose there would be even more of a case for a 24 hour service like Manchester enjoys with Manchester Airport. But TPE and whoever else do seem to try their best to spread the night trains further and further apart.

 

[me123]

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Allnight-EdinburghGlasgow-trains-service-rejected.6596163.jp

All-night trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow have been rejected by Network Rail despite the TOC predicting soaring passenger numbers in the two cities.
It looked at the feasibility of non-stop hourly services between midnight and 6am.

However, Network Rail say such a service would not attract the minimum 31-35 passengers per train required to be viable.

It's a shame. Perhaps a 24 hour service would be a bit much (except maybe over the festival period), but a later last train and earlier first train would certainly be popular. IIRC, the last train leaves at 23:30, so a midnight and 1am departure would be good. (I know there's a later one from Central via Shotts on Friday nights, but most people probably wouldn't think twice about it). As would a train leaving earlier than the current 6am departure (maybe even just 5:30am), and I'm glad that that's going to be considered.

One of the comments on there has made a fair point about the intermediate stations also getting a service. Again, it would really help the case to include these stations. They are well used, and there's no doubt that they would be through the night as well.

 

[tbtc]

One of the comments on there has made a fair point about the intermediate stations also getting a service. Again, it would really help the case to include these stations. They are well used, and there's no doubt that they would be through the night as well.

I guess the problem there is that Scotrail couldn't guarantee the intermediate route between Edinburgh Park and Queen Street (e.g. engineering may mean having to use the Bathgate line), so it'd be hard to guarantee going via Falkirk etc. The Sheffield - Manchester Airport overnight service may take various routes, same with the Leeds ones.

This would be a good idea, even if only extending the last couple of services to run an hour later and see how that goes. If a 00.30 service is popular then continue to 01.30 etc etc. There's no need to go for a full 24hr, they can build up to it. Then again, Citylink run one, so there's proof of some demand for public transport.

 

[rail-britain]

This was discussed a few months ago and it was quite clear that Network Rail were never going to agree to this, so that they could carry out overnight work on this route, as it is the only time they get access (typically 01:00 to 04:00 on week nights)

Back to our old suggestion; why not run a mixed-route service?
For example :
01:00 Glasgow QS - Edinburgh via Falkirk High
02:00 Glasgow QS LL - Edinburgh via Bathgate
03:00 Glasgow QS - Edinburgh via Falkirk Grahamston
04:00 Glasgow Central - Edinburgh via Shotts
05:00 Glasgow QS - Edinburgh via Falkirk High

I know Glasgow Central closes for a short while overnight, hence why I put a 04:00 departure, as it usually reopens at about that time

It really is time for the railway to get into the 21st Century; 24 hour transport, 7 days a week
Next to sort out are Sunday services!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Doesn't GLQ close at night (well the LL at least)? I take it all the night trains would run non-stop (Haymarket etc would be closed for the night)?

 

[Aictos]

Doesn't GLQ close at night (well the LL at least)? I take it all the night trains would run non-stop (Haymarket etc would be closed for the night)?

The proposed services would indeed have run non-stop between Edinburgh and Glasgow:

All-night trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow have been rejected by Network Rail despite the track operator predicting soaring passenger numbers in the two cities.

It looked at the feasibility of non-stop hourly services between midnight and 6am.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The proposed services would indeed have run non-stop between Edinburgh and Glasgow:

... Edinburgh and Glasgow have been rejected by Network Rail despite the track operator predicting soaring passenger numbers ...

What? Do they mean TOC?

 

[rail-britain]

Doesn't GLQ close at night (well the LL at least)? I take it all the night trains would run non-stop (Haymarket etc would be closed for the night)?

Yes, most of these stations close at night, but for overnight services you have to then assume the station opening hours change

Otherwise people wouldn't be able to use them...
"Hoi, I want on the 03:00 service to Edinburgh"
"Sorry, this station is closed, and when you get to Edinburgh it will be closed too"

It was assumed the overnight services would serve Haymarket, Linlithgow, Polmont, and Falkirk High

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Yes, most of these stations close at night, but for overnight services you have to then assume the station opening hours change

Otherwise people wouldn't be able to use them...
"Hoi, I want on the 03:00 service to Edinburgh"
"Sorry, this station is closed, and when you get to Edinburgh it will be closed too"

It was assumed the overnight services would serve Haymarket, Linlithgow, Polmont, and Falkirk High

But would they really keep extra staff on for one or two hours just to let say 20 people get on a train to Edinburgh? And I think you will find it impossible that Waverley closes down overnight: there's the Sleepers there, and a massive road through the middle of it.

Were they really proposed to stop en-route?

 

[90019]

And I think you will find it impossible that Waverley closes down overnight: there's the Sleepers there, and a massive road through the middle of it.

It closes at 12:45 every night and opens at 4am (6am on sundays). The sleepers have left when it shuts, and arrive after it opens.

What massive road?

 

[CarterUSM]

The late trains are bad enough on a friday night, with one or two exceptions, with steamers, smokers, and those folk who think its funny to ask for a half to X. Late trains? No thanks.

 

[xtradj]

Clearly not a service needed. Is there enough demand for an extra late train or early train?

I suppose alot of passengers at times wish the service they used went slighly earlier or later, but usually if you add a late train or earlier train, numbers dont increase, they just spread out, and therefore costs increase

i think TPE have got it good though with the Man Airport - Pic - Hud - Leeds - York late night trains. Not only does it allow passengers to travel to and from the airport, but you are looking at 4 University cities, whereby students will make the passenger numbers viable on nights out between the Universities. I should know this as i studied in Leeds until 2007.

Liverpool only has one late night service to Man Airport, so on that basis i think it is safe to assume the late night services TPE offer do cater for students, so they have it luckier than most late night routes would have for passenger numbers

 

[Zoe]

In the Netherlands they run hourly services throughout the night between most of the major cities.

 

[rail-britain]

But would they really keep extra staff on for one or two hours just to let say 20 people get on a train to Edinburgh?
And I think you will find it impossible that Waverley closes down overnight: there's the Sleepers there

These stations officially close to the public, but if you are a member of staff or delivery then you can still get access
It is known that some people see the open road access, but are disappointed when they are advised the station is closed to the public
The only members of the public that can remain in Edinburgh overnight are those waiting from Fort William for the sleeper seats to arrive, if late

 

[jamesontheroad]

I would settle for earlier trains on some of Glasgow's suburban lines. From my local, Queen's Park, the earliest train I can get into Glasgow Central arrives at around a quarter to seven. That misses the first four departures to Euston, the first (and practically second) to King's Cross, and the first to Birmingham.

 

[CarterUSM]

I would settle for earlier trains on some of Glasgow's suburban lines. From my local, Queen's Park, the earliest train I can get into Glasgow Central arrives at around a quarter to seven. That misses the first four departures to Euston, the first (and practically second) to King's Cross, and the first to Birmingham.

That is a good shout, the earlier services introduced on some routes recently have become reasonably busy, the Gourock and the Kilmarnock to Central spring to mind. I'm all for more early services, and it seem passengers are too.

 

[route101]

good idea . Citylink only run 24 hr at weekend . The problem is getting to and from glasgow stns as there is no nightbuses during the week anymore. Im sure lothian buses maintain them.

 

[CarterUSM]

good idea . Citylink only run 24 hr at weekend . The problem is getting to and from glasgow stns as there is no nightbuses during the week anymore. Im sure lothian buses maintain them.

Yes that is a particular gripe of mine also, IIRC, Firsts nightbus services have been introduced and withdrawn twice!

 

[Nightrider]

The only bus i know of that runs 24/7 in the Glasgow area is the Arriva Glasgow Airport/Buchanan St.
Although you can forget onward public transport between 12 midnight and 6am midweek unless you count the Prestwick Airport bus at 4.30 am and of course the 4.30am Glasgow Central to Euston.
At least the walk from Buchanan St bus station to GLC is down hill.
Don,t expect any access to the bus station facilities during the night.
Buchanan St bus station is closed to the travelling public other than for getting on and off the airport buses 12am to 6am.
Nice thought in the Scottish winter which started 3 weeks ago.

:roll:

 

[Aictos]

What? Do they mean TOC?

No, they mean Network Rail as First Scotrail as of yet doesn't take responsibility for the track.

 

[paul1609]

good idea . Citylink only run 24 hr at weekend . The problem is getting to and from glasgow stns as there is no nightbuses during the week anymore. Im sure lothian buses maintain them.

One of my gripes about Citylink is that they dont serve Edinburgh Airport. I used to have get the express bus in to town to a roundabout on the outskirts of Edinburgh to pick up the Fort William bus (fortunately there was a macdonalds for breakfast).
Sadly the Fort William bus has gone so fly to Inverness now.

 

[scotsman]

Yes that is a particular gripe of mine also, IIRC, Firsts nightbus services have been introduced and withdrawn twice!

Aye, my mate in Glasgow had an interesting experience on his first and last nightbus ride to Clydebank. Mind you, I wouldn't have done it again if a knife was waved about either.

 

[CarterUSM]

Aye, my mate in Glasgow had an interesting experience on his first and last nightbus ride to Clydebank. Mind you, I wouldn't have done it again if a knife was waved about either.

I'd be surprised if a knife wasn't waved about on a bus in Glasgow! Everyone and their granny seems to carry one!

 

[ayrshire_voyager]

I'd be surprised if a knife wasn't waved about on a bus in Glasgow! Everyone and their granny seems to carry one!

if the last train on a friday from glasgow to ayr is anything to go by its the mordor express, no sign of a conductor, generally and not a pleasant experience.

 

[CarterUSM]

if the last train on a friday from glasgow to ayr is anything to go by its the mordor express, no sign of a conductor, generally and not a pleasant experience.

Its ticket examiners that work it, and i wouldn't have walked through it either if i still done their job! We used to barrier the last trains instead, and get a decent swatch at people to gauge any possible problems.

 

[ayrshire_voyager]

Its ticket examiners that work it, and i wouldn't have walked through it either if i still done their job! We used to barrier the last trains instead, and get a decent swatch at people to gauge any possible problems.

they should do that in my opinion

 

[CarterUSM]

they should do that in my opinion

Yep, i agree totally, it still happens once in a blue moon, but certainly not often enough. Even the plod aren't that interested anymore. You sometimes got them travelling on the train as far as kilwinning ir even maybe Ayr, that is if their mummys allowed them out after lighting up time!

 

[ayrshire_voyager]

Yep, i agree totally, it still happens once in a blue moon, but certainly not often enough. Even the plod aren't that interested anymore. You sometimes got them travelling on the train as far as kilwinning ir even maybe Ayr, that is if their mummys allowed them out after lighting up time!

dont get me started on the BTP...... there were on the train after the Scotland v Lithunia,not a lot of troublejust TA boys on way from game......never seen them on a Friday night