24 Hour Routes In 10 Years Time

[Harlesden]

Back in the mid-1970's I used to enjoy being virtually the only person on the 05:20 Sunday morning service from Southall to Paddington.
Apparently, there is still a 05:40 Sunday morning service advertised on the NR website - but it involves a change at Heathrow Airport and a fare of £23.80

 

[HSTEd]

How much would it cost to run services on the major intercity corridors all night in terms of increased subsidy and capital spending on more crossovers to enable single line working during engineering works?

 

[The Planner]

In a word, "lots".

 

[Norman]

I believe a Waterloo to Guildford and a Waterloo to Woking service would get good patronage throughout the night. A stopping pattern could be

Waterloo
Vauxhall
Clapham Junction
Earlsfield
Wimbledon
Surbiton
All stations to Guildford via Cobham

and

Waterloo
Vauxhall
Clapham Junction
Earlsfield
Wimbledon
Raynes Park
New Malden
(Possibly Berrylands - but they could use Surbiton)
Surbiton
Esher
Hersham
Walton
Weybridge
Byfleet and New Haw
West Byfleet
Woking

Services should alternate between the two running every 30 mins or half an hour. It seems a shame that the last serivce out of WAT is the 1.05. The only alternative for people in the Kingston area is £50 cabs or tortuous nighbuses! The 1.05 train is very busy and I belive the flow could be strong throughout the ight.

 

[Ivo]

Surely that's where air travel would come in? If Heathrow or similar ran flights to Manchester overnight (may have to be somewhere elsewhere else given the restrictions on night travel from LHR) then people could use TPE across the north, and also run services to Liverpool. A similar scenario could exist with Glasgow, and as such only Birmingham (among the really big cities) would have no service; here, a 350 from London should suffice, stopping only at MKC and Coventry en route.

Back in the south, I would suggest that at least Brighton to Luton and London to both Reading and Southend should exist.

In fact, to simplify things, these air routes could run from Luton or even Southend, which reduces pressure on London Buses' N9 route.

Route One: EUS-MKC-COV-BHM
Route Two: YRK-LDS-MAN-MIA
Route Three: MIA-MAN-LIV
Route Four: GLC-EDB
Route Five: BTN-HHE-TBD-GTW-ECR-LBG-BFR-CTK-FAR-STP-SAC-LTN-LUT
Route Six: PAD-SLO-RDG
Route Seven: LST-SRA-SIA-SOV

Just an idea...

 

[Greenback]

As others have pointed out, any overnight service would need to be profitable. If trains between London and Reaiding, or Milton Keynes, aren't profitable, then I can't think of very many that would be. Without profit, the services will require a lot of subsidy, and I don't think it is politically attractive to subsidise partygoers and holiday makers, who seem to make up the majority of travellers at 0200!

What could be done, and this has already been mentioned, is to put on later trains than there are now on many routes. I heard someone moaning today about how their daughter was working late tonight and so they had to pick her up, as there was no train back for her - she finished at 2230.

 

[Firestarter]

If we have 24 hours routes does anyone think we should have on board revenue staff? Because on FCC at the moment its free travel after 24:00, (not sure if the airport stations Luton Parkway and Gatwick have barrier staff after theses times or not) 22:30 if your lucky not to encounter RPI's on board.

Just to make it clear I'm not complaining about free travel at night time.

 

[HH]

if we have 24 hours routes does anyone think we should have on board revenue staff? Because on fcc at the moment its free travel after 24:00, (not sure if the airport stations luton parkway and gatwick have barrier staff after theses times or not)

afaik not.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

afaik not.

Gatwick Airport doesn't have ticket barriers whatsoever!

 

[Deerfold]

I believe a Waterloo to Guildford and a Waterloo to Woking service would get good patronage throughout the night. A stopping pattern could be

Waterloo
Vauxhall
Clapham Junction
Earlsfield
Wimbledon
Surbiton
All stations to Guildford via Cobham

and

Waterloo
Vauxhall
Clapham Junction
Earlsfield
Wimbledon
Raynes Park
New Malden
(Possibly Berrylands - but they could use Surbiton)
Surbiton
Esher
Hersham
Walton
Weybridge
Byfleet and New Haw
West Byfleet
Woking

Services should alternate between the two running every 30 mins or half an hour. It seems a shame that the last serivce out of WAT is the 1.05. The only alternative for people in the Kingston area is £50 cabs or tortuous nighbuses! The 1.05 train is very busy and I belive the flow could be strong throughout the ight.

Kingston does have a quite amazing 8 nightbuses (so you could go by nightbus - bit slower and you'd have to get 2 from central London - certainly less than £50 though).

 

[dvboy]

During the night I mean. Realistically, it is some distance from being Second City (Birmingham, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Liverpool, York, Leeds, Norwich, Cardiff, Bristol, bla bla bla...) but overnight I would have thought that only London would pass it?

No actual evidence of this, it's a personal opinion.

I still don't quite understand what you mean. I've been to Brighton but I wouldn't say it was a 24-hour city any more than any other city apart from London is.

 

[HH]

Brighton is probably a 24 hour city if you are of a certain persuasion.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Kingston does have a quite amazing 8 nightbuses (so you could go by nightbus - bit slower and you'd have to get 2 from central London - certainly less than £50 though).

My wife and I use the night buses fairly frequently (twice a month) to get back to Richmond after nights out but would much rather take the train. I think SWT is missing a trick here.

 

[Ivo]

Brighton is probably a 24 hour city if you are of a certain persuasion.

That is my point exactly. I would never count myself as being of said "persuasion" but realistically only London beats it when it comes to a "typical" night scene (and even that can be debated at times). Think of it this way; how many other settlements in this country have 24-hour buses? Not including really large settlements, I cannot think of any to have more than one bus an hour overnight (e.g. Reading's 17), whereas Brighton has the N7 - never mind the N25 to the Universities. As stated previously, even Birmingham has no real night service by bus, while Bristol only has a Friday/Saturday service, and Liverpool has next-to-nothing away from those two days as well. And that is relating only to its bus service; what about all the real reasons people go out at night?

Indeed, Brighton almost comes to life at night. I would daresay that, with the exception of London (and then not the City itself; for the record, Greater London is roughly 30x larger than Brighton & Hove), nowhere has a larger draw or importance to it during the early hours.
On a different matter, I forgot one on my list: LST - SSD, non-stop.

 

[ushawk]

Quite a lot of people do go to Brighton from London and other surrounding areas on Friday and Saturday nights for the nightlife, myself included (although im not that "persuasion") - maybe just early saturday and sunday mornings for extras to London, although again the route is closed a lot. That and drunk people might make a mess, which some poor person would have to clean up.

 

[Ivo]

The thing is, every route I listed above, with exception of Brighton and the recent Stansted ones, has potential for avoiding engineering works. Yes, in the cases of Southend and possibly Reading, it would mean an alternative route, but the flexibility is there! No rason why line closures should cause any problem. And speaking of line closures [at the bottom of the first quote]...

Quite a lot of people do go to Brighton from London and other surrounding areas on Friday and Saturday nights for the nightlife, myself included (although im not that "persuasion") - maybe just early saturday and sunday mornings for extras to London, although again the route is closed a lot.

I know I've already advocated the idea as worthwhile, but I do agree that this would be a sensible start, if only as a national experiment or test run. If they could four-track the route right through to Brighton (I realise the Clayton Tunnel, if nothing else, would make it difficult), then it would certainly work. Otherwise, it could be a case for re-opening Uckfield to Lewes (and electrifying the route)?

That and drunk people might make a mess, which some poor person would have to clean up.

Lots of potential commuter traffic then, given Brighton's "pull"! Just be sure to advertise these jobs outside of Brighton. Or, alternatively, put some political spin on it and tell the new employee(s) that they can visit Lovers Walk...

 

[ushawk]

The majority of the line south of Three Bridges would have problems widening, would have to demolish some of Burgess Hill town centre for it. If Southern trialled the services and advertised them well enough, then they would be well used, who knows it could do a knock on effect to other TOCs.

 

[richw]

There are buses hourly from falmouth to tremough up to 305 am during Unix terms. The first bus is 505, and this is quiet cornwall, so surely other larger areas are more in need of service. These services around falmouth are operated by first subsidised by the university, there's a laminated sheet of paper at the bus stop and these extras aren't in the timetables

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

 

[dvboy]

how many other settlements in this country have 24-hour buses? Not including really large settlements, I cannot think of any to have more than one bus an hour overnight (e.g. Reading's 17), whereas Brighton has the N7 - never mind the N25 to the Universities. As stated previously, even Birmingham has no real night service by bus, while Bristol only has a Friday/Saturday service, and Liverpool has next-to-nothing away from those two days as well.

The only places outside London I can think of with a proper night bus service are Manchester and Nottingham.

 

[Ivo]

I didn't even know Nottingham had night buses hock: And having had a look, it appears to be only weekends; can you verify this please?

I shall make a thread about night bus...

Elsewhere regarding 24-hour train services, is there a case for Liverpool (besides Manchester Airport) at all? I wonder if a service to at least St Helens, Wigan and Warrington could be justified (and possibly South Parkway; I have omitted Birkenhead because it already has a bus to Liverpool)..
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here we go

 

[Greenback]

There are buses hourly from falmouth to tremough up to 305 am during Unix terms. The first bus is 505, and this is quiet cornwall, so surely other larger areas are more in need of service. These services around falmouth are operated by first subsidised by the university, there's a laminated sheet of paper at the bus stop and these extras aren't in the timetables

The economics of running an hourly bus at night are, of course, completely different to running a train service.

 

[W-on-Sea]

A c2c manager I was speaking to recently was quite adamant that the need for unbroken engineering time meant that a 24-hour service was inconceivable on that line, bi-di or not. although I also doubt the demand is sufficient.

Oxford has some sort of night bus network, although much later on fri and sat nights than otherwise. Although if you count local journeys in the city on the Oxford Tube or Espress there's something all week + genuinely 24-hour, and some of the Brookes Bus routes have a Wed night/Thurs a.m. service during their term-time too. While the Stagecoach Gold NS1/NS2, half-hourly till after 3am at weekends, to Witney + Carterton must surely be the most luxurious night bus in the land

 

[route101]

I think there should be at least later buses and trains between Glasgow and Edinburgh . Getting from Edinburgh Airport back to Glasgow at night can be a pain .

 

[Deerfold]

I didn't even know Nottingham had night buses hock: And having had a look, it appears to be only weekends; can you verify this please?

Nottingham started getting night buses just months after I moved away. There are quite a lot now. So far as I know indigo is the only one to run every night

http://www.trentbarton.co.uk/indigo_times.aspx

 

[Norman]

Kingston does have a quite amazing 8 nightbuses (so you could go by nightbus - bit slower and you'd have to get 2 from central London - certainly less than £50 though).

A bit slower.... I'd say an awful lot slower and more waiting around than a train would be. I never said you couldn't go by nightbus, it's just that they are toturous! If you wanted to go from, say the South Bank to Surbiton at 3am on Sat morning it will take you 1 hr 47mins and FIVE buses!* Or, as I say 30mins and £50 in a cab... Whereas on a train via Waterloo you'd do it less than 40mins and for a couple of quid.

*Source = TFL Journey Planner, accessed today.

 

[anthony263]

Cardiff tried night buses but they were not really cost effective (No wonder when they were using the large darts and volvo alisa's, of course the latter pleased us bus enthusiasts), Personally I think Cardff bus would have been better off using the mini pointer darts which would have been well filled.

Someon did suggest running some night buses around Swansea a few years ago, cant remeber where saw it suggested though and it has since gone quiet. I personally think a route linking the city centre to Morriston or Mumbles would make some money especially if they used the optare solo's

 

[SF-02]

The last trains around midnight are often heaving from Charing Cross and London Bridge on a Friday and Saturday. Night buses are tortuous for anywhere past the first stop or 2 of the train. If you live in zone 4+ buses are crap. There's a big demand for later trains.

 

[jon0844]

Trains at 0140 in FCC are often pretty full too, while some trains between 2 and 4 on TL have 50-60 people at least. Some for airports, others going home.

An hourly, or even every two hours, service should be viable in lots of places, but not necessarily with 4 or 5 car stock.

When the new TL trains come, won't they be 8 or 12? A bit much through the night!

 

[Firestarter]

Trains at 0140 in FCC are often pretty full too, while some trains between 2 and 4 on TL have 50-60 people at least. Some for airports, others going home.

An hourly, or even every two hours, service should be viable in lots of places, but not necessarily with 4 or 5 car stock.

When the new TL trains come, won't they be 8 or 12? A bit much through the night!

Sunday to Wednesday on the TL north route and north of Elstree would have to disagree with above comment, Thursday onwards trains are more full but more with passangers back from a night out in central london etc. Maybe when the trains start going through getting rid of bus and underground connections maybe trains will fill up earlier in the week.

 

[Deerfold]

The last trains around midnight are often heaving from Charing Cross and London Bridge on a Friday and Saturday. Night buses are tortuous for anywhere past the first stop or 2 of the train. If you live in zone 4+ buses are crap. There's a big demand for later trains.

I realise the bus will be slower than a train would be but I suspect many people who go out late in other places than London would appreciate the level of service London Zone 4 gets - I know I'd like to be able to get back from Leeds later than the 2318 train (meaning 2035 from London - or earlier if there's engineering work) without paying £50 for a taxi.