466 departs Paddock Wood with lights the wrong way round

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by brad465, 14 Dec 2019.

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  1. brad465

    brad465 Member

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    After getting 466033 to Paddock Wood yesterday en route to Tonbridge, for some reason it departed the station, with the front lights on at the back still. Was this an operating error or is there a procedure that meant this was okay?

    I do have video evidence of this but the file appears to be too large to upload here, so I have an image of it shortly before departure showing this (normally I see the red lights come on very soon after arrival at any bay platform):


    20191213_184102.jpg
     
    Last edited: 14 Dec 2019
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  3. scotraildriver

    scotraildriver Established Member

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    The drive, quite simply, forgot to change them. He made a small mistake. But now you've put in on a public forum he'll probably get a talking to. Don't worry about it, it's nothing to do with you.
     
  4. brad465

    brad465 Member

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    I wasn't trying to shame the driver (even though that's what I now appear to have done), it's just what I saw and looked unusual. If I'm in the wrong here for posting about it I won't stand in the way of this thread being taken down.
     
  5. whoosh

    whoosh Member

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    Happens occasionally. Although it's more common for a train to depart with red lights on the front by mistake, rather than whites on the back.
    The danger of departing with reds on the front, or no headlight switched on - both of which happen occasionally, is a reason why many railway folk are against yellow fronts on new trains with high intensity headlights not being necessary. A massive assumption was made that the headlight is always switched on without fail, and no-one ever makes mistakes with it.
     
  6. Ethano92

    Ethano92 Member

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    Not that I have any experience but surely you'd realise eventually, driving in the dark, if your lights weren't on.

    Could say it's comparable to driving a car without turning on your lights but roads are usually illuminated, I assume more so than rail lines.

    FWIW I don't see what's wrong with posting this. As a customer at a public railway station posting onto a public forum. Getting a 'talking to' for making mistakes (small or big) at your work is generally how life tends to work I find
     
  7. MotCO

    MotCO Member

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    Isn't that the same thing?
     
  8. yorkie

    yorkie Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    I don't think that's fair; you start by saying it's a small thing, so surely no issue? But you then seem to suggest it is an issue? are you suggesting it is a big issue that should be covered up? I'm confused as to what you are saying.
     
  9. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    When I've seen something like that I've usually pointed it out and they've fixed it with a nod or wave. Same as if you flash someone in the car for having forgotten to turn their headlights on.
     
  10. Sprinter107

    Sprinter107 Member

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    On the odd occasion, I've left with reds on the front. It's never very long before someone points it out.
     
  11. Surreytraveller

    Surreytraveller Established Member

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    No, its the other end of the train
     
  12. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Easily done :lol: Thankfully the new fleets that are coming on stream do it all for you automatically. No more need for switches or error.
     
  13. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Saw a video on Twitter of a Networker for the same operator in a similar state in the last week.
     
  14. The_Train

    The_Train Established Member

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    Wow, what a harsh response. Seems to me like you're trying to attribute blame to the OP when he (making a gender assumption based on username) has simply reported on an anomaly occurring and wanted to know if there were other reasons than the 'obvious' as to why it happened. The OP was clearly a distance away from the train when this happened but I'm sure if he'd been closer he would have assisted the driver in some way as many of us have done during stints on platforms.

    At the end of the day such things will always catch the eye of us 'meddling railway geeks' and as it is something that occurred in the public domain, the OP has every right to discuss it on a public forum. If the driver gets a 'talking to' then he/she only has themselves to blame but hopefully they learn from it and everyone moves on with no harm done.
     
  15. Sprinter107

    Sprinter107 Member

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    It's not really a case of the driver "learning from anything". It was an oversight. A small mistake that's soon corrected with the flick of a switch. I'm sure most of us have done it at some time. Turnaround times can be tight, and you can get distracted by other matters, that may stop you carrying out your normal changing ends routine. A passenger enquiry, member of platform staff telling you something. It's very easily done.
     
  16. pompeyfan

    pompeyfan Established Member

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    Am I the only person seeing the same reply 3, 4 or 5 times?

    I saw a 387 through Clapham recently with whites on the rear which surprised me. I’d have thought the TMS would have flagged it up, similarly to a desiro. Also shows someone at Victoria wasn’t doing their job properly but I’m not surprised if they’re anything like the dispatchers at Waterloo.
     
  17. aleggatta

    aleggatta Member

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    It is linked to the TMS, but I think it's also linked to the speed and only activating the fault at speed, so would have likely got the OBS to walk through the train to rectify or would have to stop somewhere en route to do it himself
     
  18. Monty

    Monty Established Member

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    Happened a number of times in my train, usually when the turnaround times are stupidly tight. Each time the driver politely asked me to go the back cab and change them. Problem solved.
     
  19. The_Train

    The_Train Established Member

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    Nobody is perfect, there is something to be learnt from every mistake
     
  20. Daz28

    Daz28 Member

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    Surprised it isn’t automatic, the train systems presumably know which end it is being driven from?
     
  21. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    Except as people become accustomed to it being done automatically, they are more likely to forget to do it on the remaining stock where it isn't automatic.
     
  22. brad465

    brad465 Member

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    An example I've seen of where wrong way lighting seems to be used is at Strood for peak turnback shunts: A train from London unloads before the driver goes to the back of the train, with a guard in the front, the latter guiding the driver operating in reverse out of the station towards Cuxton, where I've seen the white lights on the back in this manoeuvre before (where the driver is). Once beyond the points outside the station, the driver then proceeds forward back into the station, unloads the guard, and runs empty to Slade Green/Plumstead.
     
  23. Sprinter107

    Sprinter107 Member

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    The lights dont need to be changed for shunt moves of 400 yards or less.
     
  24. pompeyfan

    pompeyfan Established Member

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    I believe there’s also a rule book extract that states a train performing a wrong direction move for the purpose of providing assistance to a failed train should show whites on both ends?
     
  25. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    It's tiresome to see so many innocent questions on this forum treated as if they are malicious. A genuine question deserves a polite answer (or don't bother). If the wrong lights are displayed, a mistake has been made - it may or may not mean the perpetrator is held to account (very probably not), but there are many other ways in which this could have come to light. A genuine small error will not be met with a disproportionate response, but I think reminders are necessary occasionally to stop errors creeping in. There does seem to be an enclave here which thinks that the 'club' must protect its members by not mentioning anything which could affect anyone.
     
  26. Speed43125

    Speed43125 Member

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    Pretty common, the Alloa branch for example often used to see sprinters with the wrong lights on returning to Stirling. Doesn't seem to happen with the 385s anymore. Pretty common, Once got around to actually telling the driver about it, he was polite but you could tell he was worried about the possible consequences. Not a big deal. Usually gets picked up on at some point.
     
  27. Horizon22

    Horizon22 Member

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    Yep this happens on occasion. If there's platform staff they'll normally tell control / the next station / the signaller direct who will advise the driver or conductor to get it sorted. More delay if its a 12-car DOO service...
     
  28. Aictos

    Aictos Established Member

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    I agree, it is easily done as mistakes can happen but they're soon put right. As to the new fleets that do it automatically, don't the Class 7XX do it as well?
     
  29. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    I'm sure they do. I can only speak certainly about the 745/755s.
     
  30. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    With lots of flashing from the oncoming drivers :idea: or getting the guard to do the honours at the back end ;)
     
  31. randyrippley

    randyrippley Established Member

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    A small mistake but its still safety critical.
    S/he deserves a talking to.
     
  32. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Oh get over yourself. It’s a small mistake. Do you deserve a talking to for every mistake you make?
     
  33. randyrippley

    randyrippley Established Member

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    If it has the possibility of resulting in a crash or accident, then yes.
    With the lights not showing red you've just removed one protection from stopping a rear end collision. Yes I know the signals should stop that from happening, but one day the holes in the cheese will line up.
    In any other industry anyone paying such short shrift to basic safety as you would be out the door very quickly
     
  34. Sprinter107

    Sprinter107 Member

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    A great over reaction for such a small error, that is easily rectified
     
  35. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Utter tosh. I have worked in industries with safety critical work and no-one would be getting fired for a small mistake like that.
     
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