4VEP 3417 back on mainline, still fundraising

[Bikeman78]

I suspect that the VEP's were so rammed that nobody could be thrown around in an accident - passengers were airbags in effect - so fewer injuries.

The first element of crash worthiness is of course not to have crashes, such as with TPWS (thank you John Prescott). The SR Mark 1's were not so bad as to need premature replacement, although they aged badly after privatisation.

I doubt that the 12th coach would be exceptionally full. I was only a kid at the time. I always wondered "how on earth did that get up there?" The energy involved must have been phenomenal. It is a miracle that no one was killed in there though it would have been very scary, to put it mildly. You make a good point about TPWS. I don't think there has been a fatal crash on the former Southern since October 1994.

 

[Invincible]

I very much doubt (but may be mistaken) that Sarah Siddons will be carrying passengers on the main line any time soon if ever

Is the loco still being worked on with the 4TC at Eastleigh with a view to return to special trips on the Metropolitan and other lines or heritage railways?

 

[1Q18]

Is the loco still being worked on with the 4TC at Eastleigh with a view to return to special trips on the Metropolitan and other lines or heritage railways?

Sarah Siddons will surely struggle to operate at heritage railways, with there not being any with third- or fourth-rail electrification.

 

[Invincible]

Sarah Siddons will surely struggle to operate at heritage railways, with there not being any with third- or fourth-rail electrification.

Thanks, so just the outer parts of the Metropolitan line where it last ran 2019 with the 4tc with central locking doors? No dates yet?
Although the 1938 Stock train ran Sept 2023, also with with central locking doors, sliding rather than slam doors.

Vintage Tube Trains Will Be Running Trips Through London Next Month

The vintage train journeys will take guests back in time to celebrate the 85th birthday of the beautifully restored 1938 Art Deco-style train.

secretldn.com

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Thanks, so just the outer parts of the Metropolitan line

Just a quick aside, did I hear/read somewhere that due to the modern stock taking over most of the tube (excepting the '72 of course at mo) and changes to the traction in some way(?) the likes of the '38 stock (and SS I presume) will as time goes by, be restricted to ever decreasing stretches of line to operate along? May just have dreamt it..

 

[Goldfish62]

Just a quick aside, did I hear/read somewhere that due to the modern stock taking over most of the tube (excepting the '72 of course at mo) and changes to the traction in some way(?) the likes of the '38 stock (and SS I presume) will as time goes by, be restricted to ever decreasing stretches of line to operate along? May just have dreamt it..

It's to do with the signalling. The 1938 stock doesn't, of course, have any form of in-cab signalling equipment.

Even the retrofitted battery locos are restricted by line dependent on what equipment they're fitted with.

 

[Invincible]

Thanks about the restrictions on the Met line.
Looking into the Sarah Siddons loco's history, was built 1923, so would have been 100 last year. Would have thought the London Underground museum might have done something to recognise it?.

 

[bluegoblin7]

There were hopes, but Sarah remains undergoing significant work at Eastleigh and as such was unavailable.

Both Sarah and the 38TS will be able to operate on the Met main for the foreseeable future, between Harrow and Amersham (incl).

 

[Invincible]

There were hopes, but Sarah remains undergoing significant work at Eastleigh and as such was unavailable.

Both Sarah and the 38TS will be able to operate on the Met main for the foreseeable future, between Harrow and Amersham (incl).

Thanks

 

[DerekC]

I am going to get lots of hate emojis for this, but it looks just as boring as they always did, but a lot shinier!

 

[jumble]

There were hopes, but Sarah remains undergoing significant work at Eastleigh and as such was unavailable.

Both Sarah and the 38TS will be able to operate on the Met main for the foreseeable future, between Harrow and Amersham (incl).

Would you by any chance have any further updates beyond that which was shared by the Friends of the London Transport museum last June?

I have to say that if the issues are finance related ( which the friend meeting suggested was the case ) I would have thought a GoFundMe would cause funds to come flooding in but perhaps LUL think this inappropriate.

 

[MasterSpenny]

The first part of a story of how 3417 got back to Waterloo has been published to the Southern Electric Traction Group website.

“The Worst Kept Secret on the Southern Region…” Part One.

3417 standing at London Waterloo, 27th January 2024. Writing Minion’s Note: As you’ll all know by now, the everyone in the SETG has been in a flat spin for the last four months. Everything …

www.setg.org.uk

Be cautious about inviting old friends over for tea, friends. If it weren’t for the power of Old Friends and Tea, 3417 might never have rocked up at Waterloo last weekend. During the usual railway activity of Industrial Gossiping, the conversation moved towards when and how we should relaunch 3417 into the public eye. That discussion slowly resolved into “let’s do this for Mr Pettitt himself.” The last time Mr Pettitt saw the unit outside captivity at Strawberry Hill was when the unit was delivered to the care of the Bluebell Railway at East Grinstead on January 17th 2009. At that stage that would have been more than 15 years ago. 15 years is a long time. So what date would we choose for a relaunch? The first and most obvious candidate was the 17th January 2024. Four months away. Surely we could have the unit ready in four months? Buckie broke out a calendar for 2024 and, once we had helped him with the long words and big numbers, he saw that 17th January 2024 would be a Wednesday. A Wednesday is no good if you want to stay out of the way of the Big Railway. Someone asked, “how about the nearest Saturday?” No one was sure, so we sent an enquiring email to a Very Useful Person at South Western Railway. A few days later they emailed us back saying that 20th January was no good either – engineering works would mean the line past our shed would be busy all day. No one wants a 50-year old museum piece* potentially blocking up a busy railway. “Alright”, said a small round exasperated voice, “what about the following weekend?” Another email was sent. Minions sat, clutching their hems and biting their lips anxiously. “Bing”, went Buckie’s phone. He looked at the phone, and then he grinned.





“The 27th is good, love. Let’s do it.”





Four months to get 3417 ready for the mainline. There was, to put it mildly, a lot to do. Firstly the unit would have to be up to scratch. That meant (in no particular order):

• Getting the unit through Number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9 Exams and dealing with any faults arising plus,
• An ex-General Overhaul Exam plus,
• A full door exam (CPM)
• Restoring the unit to the National Rolling Stock Library
• Passing an Ultrasonic Axle Test
• Passing an MPI (magnetic particle inspection) test.
• Additionally:
• Completing all the outstanding interior requirements;
• Rebuilding the interior of 76263, including three first class compartments, the standard saloon and the driving cab plus,
• Finishing or at least neatly boxing up the re-wire of 70797 plus refitting the interior and,
• A heavy interior and exterior clean.

And all of this work would have to happen in concert with all the other work. Before we go any further lets make one thing clear. This would have been a big ask for a fully equipped, fully staffed depot. For a group of 20 people who usually put in a few days a month on the project, we might as well have been suggesting an ascent of Mount Everest. From the inside. In the dark. Buckie frowned, Potter baulked and more than a few Minions muttered “I’m not sure we can get this done.” There was a degree of chin rubbing, sucking of air through teeth and drumming of fingers on desks and suchlke. But this was for Gordon.





“We like Gordon”, said the Minions. The Minions have never been shy of a bit of work.





And so we squared our shoulders and got on with it.





Buckie set to work using the planning tools of the modern railway – I refer of course to bits of paper covered in greasy finger prints, a biro that sometimes refuses to write until you scrub it vigorously on any other piece of paper and an unwashed china mug full of tea. Computers are fine and dandy, folks, but bits of paper don’t need to be plugged in – they can be folded, filed, dropped, mislaid, added to, doodled on to allow Big Thoughts to happen, screwed-up and thrown at Annoying People, used as tea mats and you can even read things from them if they still seem to be clean enough. What were we going to need to do to pull this off?





Organisation was key, and Buckie rapidly drew up a list of jobs for everyone to tackle:

• Lynn & Potter: draught welts to replace (those bits of fabric around the doors to reduce drafts, but tend to get rotted through thanks to water ingress) – whole unit. Replace trim as required. Restore standard saloon 76263. Restore 1st Class compartments 76263.
• Potter: as above, plus restore cab 76263
• Richard S: machine and fit step boards. Any other wood working as required.
• JD & Mick: Sort out 70797
• Darren: Work with Richard S/Lynn & Potter on interiors. Other work as required.
• Buckie: make greasy bits work, find more Minions and drink tea.
• Everyone Else: worry and drink tea. Lots of tea.

One of our biggest advantages – having the shed at Strawberry Hill – is perversely also one of our biggest disadvantages. We are part of a live, working depot. So we can’t just invite Tom, Dick or Harry onto the yard and the more we looked, though, the more obvious it became that if we were going to meet the deadline, we were going to need more bodies to do the work. This is where the Old Boy network comes in very handy. Buckie rang around the houses; Phil Best (Besty), John ‘Billy’ Smart, Bob Hudson, Tony Francis, Mark Bott, Steve Trower , Doug Thompson – everyone scrambled to assist. Then there are the SWR apprentices Liam Tickle & Sam Smith who chipped in far over their pay grade. So the work started. The initial plan has always been to get 3417 back into shape for carrying passengers on heritage lines and we were on course to achieved that by mid-2024. But now we were talking about a press launch, at Waterloo, in front of the railway’s Great & Good. This is where we made a phone call to our old friend Roy Watts at the Bluebell Railway. At this distance I can’t quite recall the full scope of the conversation, but I’m fairly sure the phrases involved include “Help”, “So far out of our depth that we wouldn’t touch bottom if you covered us in concrete and chucked us into the North Sea” and “Bitten off more than we can chew.”





A little about Roy and 3417 at this point. Roy was in charge at the Bluebell when Gordon himself telephoned and asked if they would take on “his” 4VEP and has remained a staunch ally of the SETG ever since. This time, however, we needed the Bluebell to buy into this hair-brained scheme. Fortunately for us Roy knew our standards, knew our methods and was more than willing to go to the Bluebell and make our pitch. The Bluebell board gave us the thumbs up without hesitation (steam only, my arse) and from there, Roy was instrumental in getting the background paperwork in order to allow the plan to move. Roy is a good guy and has a lot on his plate, and despite all that he waded in and made things happen. We hear so many stories in preservation where ego, Tiny Empire Building and simple spite get in the way of substantial things happening; there was none of this here. everyone said “Yes”, and tings happened quickly. Roy, you and your colleagues are bloody stars and we doff our caps to you all.





As well as the engineering side, we had to sort the operational side. How would we get 3417 to Waterloo? Could we run it in passenger service? Who do you telephone? How do you make “look, we want to get this unit that no one is really bothered about out of a shed and run it in service for the first time in about a decade but we haven’t got a lot of money” sound like a really sexy idea? Well, firstly, be careful about who you ring up: try ringing people for whom the railway is more than just a job. Secondly, mention that it’s for Gordon Pettitt. That helps as well. The third thing is leafing through your address book for current and former senior railway staff – things happen quicker if the commands filter down either from upstairs, or via people that the current crop of managers were taught to called “sir”. So Potter looked in his Little Book of Names and Roy looked in his, and a few emails were sent. Well, more than a few. Quite a lot in fact. At one point the keyboard on the office laptop started to smoke… But the answers came back, and all the replies were on one theme; how can we help? The guest list started grow…

 

[contrex]

Just dug out my notes. We picked up SS and the BIL on No 4 Shed road at Straw Hill, with the SUB sitting on 6 shed road. Must have shunted 4 to 6 to couple up the SUB before leaving, but it's all so long ago, I forget the detail. Getting old is a pain..

I think I read something about Sarah being somewhat lively on 750v sections, and the overvoltage cutout having to be repeatedly popped back in?

Sarah Siddons will surely struggle to operate at heritage railways, with there not being any with third- or fourth-rail electrification.

There's a video online somewhere of a Paris Métro Sprague type set running on a heritage line in France, with some kind of diesel generator set fitted in to the leading car. It seemed to proceed at not much more than walking pace. I'm not sure if that was due to power of the generator or the state of the track. The whole thing looked and sounded a bit agricultural. I'm sure something a bit more pokey could fit in some kind of wagon, with jumper cables, or even a Mk1 bodyshell.

 

[Deepgreen]

I very much doubt (but may be mistaken) that Sarah Siddons will be carrying passengers on the main line any time soon if ever

It's a loco so can't carry passengers...

I think I read something about Sarah being somewhat lively on 750v sections, and the overvoltage cutout having to be repeatedly popped back in?


There's a video online somewhere of a Paris Métro Sprague type set running on a heritage line in France, with some kind of diesel generator set fitted in to the leading car. It seemed to proceed at not much more than walking pace. I'm not sure if that was due to power of the generator or the state of the track. The whole thing looked and sounded a bit agricultural. I'm sure something a bit more pokey could fit in some kind of wagon, with jumper cables, or even a Mk1 bodyshell.

Seen here at Ashtead on 7 July 1984.

 

[robvulpes]

There's a video online somewhere of a Paris Métro Sprague type set running on a heritage line in France, with some kind of diesel generator set fitted in to the leading car. It seemed to proceed at not much more than walking pace. I'm not sure if that was due to power of the generator or the state of the track. The whole thing looked and sounded a bit agricultural. I'm sure something a bit more pokey could fit in some kind of wagon, with jumper cables, or even a Mk1 bodyshell.

Baie de Somme galas (France) 2013 and 2016 (and possibly others but those are the only ones I have attended). The big industrial generator filled about half a coach (which had been butchered on one side to insert it). Don't think the speed was as bad as you remember, though it was a heritage line. Bear in mind the set did arrive and depart for the event under its own power over SNCF metals so it can't have been TOO pedestrian.