5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail

[AndrewE]

That retired 153 would be far better off shuttling between Levenmouth and Kirkcaldy. If a 165 could manage the Bicester/Calvert freight line before it was upgraded, then a 153 is more than capable of running up and down to Levenmouth at 30mph - bringing better public transport to 30,000 people rather than a dozen cyclists a day for the 6-8 weeks that the season lasts.

...except that it can't be fitted with an accessible toilet (or if it could, the potential life of the vehicle is so short as to make it completely pointless.)

I look forward to taking my mandatory state issued bicycle on a 153 during the workers holiday after glorious comrade Corbyn smashes the bourgeoisie.

On the other hand, I'll be quite happy to take my own and enjoy the quiet roads that petrol-heads can't reach (because either it takes too long for them or they are kept away by the ferry fares.) How is the sensible provision of the appropriate facilities on trains a symptom of the action of a foaming-at-the-mouth leftie - or alternatively, why does the possibility provoke this sort of stuff from swivel-eyed loons?

 

[Raul_Duke]

How is the sensible provision of the appropriate facilities on trains a symptom of the action of a foaming-at-the-mouth leftie - or alternatively, why does the possibility provoke this sort of stuff from swivel-eyed loons?

You know absolutely nothing of my political persuasion, just because I don’t think nationalisation is the panacea a lot of people think it is doesn’t mean I’m some sort of Tory.

You’ll also notice I made a tongue in cheek post, and didn’t resort to name calling...

 

[AndrewE]

You know absolutely nothing of my political persuasion, just because I don’t think nationalisation is the panacea a lot of people think it is doesn’t mean I’m some sort of Tory.

You’ll also notice I made a tongue in cheek post, and didn’t resort to name calling...

No-one is talking about nationalisation, this thread is about the possibility of adapting a soon-to-be-unusable powered vehicle for the luggage space that is obviously needed on some routes. The local government is considering sponsoring the conversion to address a local need. What has that got to do with your opinion of Corbyn or his politics? - and if that's not what you mean, then what are you getting at?

 

[Raul_Duke]

No-one is talking about nationalisation, this thread is about the possibility of adapting a soon-to-be-unusable powered vehicle for the luggage space that is obviously needed on some routes. The local government is considering sponsoring the conversion to address a local need. What has that got to do with Corbyn or his politics?

lets get back to the real world, in todays capitalist, profit driven society this is never going to happen. in a world of re nationilsation where the opererator owns the asset and track yes would be great. but where everyone wants a slice of the cake it is a non starter.
if you want a joined up network for the benifit of the nation you have to do it through the ballot box

Is this not proof for nationaliation, transport for the people and the country not the fat cats

That’s what I was replying to.....

 

[AndrewE]

That’s what I was replying to.....

Unfortunately I didn't spot the tongue-in-cheek smiley. It did look like a put-down of the post asking for transport for the benefit of the public.

 

[brel york]

I look forward to taking my mandatory state issued bicycle on a 153 during the workers holiday after glorious comrade Corbyn smashes the bourgeoisie.

Lol the bikes have already been introduced in red Sheffield

 

[tbtc]

...but when compared with people driving up from somewhere south (England - or even further south) with bikes on racks on top of their cars?

Are you planning on sticking 153s onto the back of 390s too? I'm not sure there'll be sufficient Dogboxes to go round.

Or are you okay with people driving up from England with bikes on the roof, as long as they don't drive their cars through the Highlands?

one popular ride is to get the earliest train to Corrour with a Mountain Bike, and ride to Fort William to get the train back. That's do-able as a day trip from Glasgow (and from the surrounding area, by driving to a station to catch the train). That's something that can't be done by car(!) and can't be done by riding the whole way from home (not as a daytrip)

That sounds a fun day out.

(doesn't sound like it'll be of much economic benefit to the Highlands, if the idea is that you spend your time from Corrour to Fort William on a bike and jump on the next train south, but I appreciate that some people are trying to suggest that this will be some significant economic benefit somehow)

I look forward to taking my mandatory state issued bicycle on a 153 during the workers holiday after glorious comrade Corbyn smashes the bourgeoisie.

Come the revolution...

How is the sensible provision of the appropriate facilities on trains a symptom of the action of a foaming-at-the-mouth leftie - or alternatively, why does the possibility provoke this sort of stuff from swivel-eyed loons?

I know that everyone wants to portray their own personal opinions as "sensible" - fair enough - but dismissing people who disagree wrote your as "swivel eyed loons" or talk about people "foaming at the mouth" doesn't help your argument - try making your point without all of the exaggerated language?

Lol the bikes have already been introduced in red Sheffield

I've used them a few times - very simple/ efficient system.

Come to Sheffield and collect your communal bike when you get here - no need to drag a Guards Van on each train in case people want to bring their own.

 

[brel york]

Of course they want to bring their own , that’s what most of it’s about , showing off your bike lol

 

[brel york]

Swivel eyed loon is such a good phrase lol

 

[Chester1]

Bike vans would be useful but I would much prefer to see them used as a third coach for 150s either by removing a cab from each unit or simply coupling them together.

 

[GatwickDepress]

It is quite a unique situation. I've always wondered whether new-build stock could incorporate modular aspects to its design. Maybe half of a carriage that could converted to carry luggage and bicycles in the summer and during holidaymaker periods, and have racks and tip-up seats removed and replaced with seats in the winter.

 

[AndrewE]

...but when compared with people driving up from somewhere south (England - or even further south) with bikes on racks on top of their cars?

Or are you okay with people driving up from England with bikes on the roof, as long as they don't drive their cars through the Highlands?.

Definitely not. The point is that if people can take their bikes on trains then they might have a holiday that doesn't use the car at all. If they can't get to the start (or maybe back from the end) of a remote cycle tour by train they are likely to use their car for the long haul and do a circular tour.

 

[InOban]

Unfortunately lots people do drive up to Oban with their bikes on top, and abandon their car for a week or more, often on residential streets. It's going to get worse this summer as longstay parking will no longer be free.

 

[AndrewE]

Unfortunately lots people do drive up to Oban with their bikes on top, and abandon their car for a week or more, often on residential streets. It's going to get worse this summer as longstay parking will no longer be free.

It's also a problem around holiday airports. One of the conseqences of the perception that rail is a relatively expensive mode of travel (and jut one of the adverse externalities of the current funding and absence of a transport policy.)

 

[Highlandspring]

Mod Note: This discussion was split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-hst-introduction-updates-discussion.137911/

Anyone know if the late introduction of the HST will affect hand back of the 170’s? When they due of lease?

The 170s go when the lease is up regardless - 6 in July and 6 in November. Also you remember the rumour earlier in the year about 153s coming to ScotRail...? Well apparently there are definitely 5 coming from GWR (Angel Leasing) in July to run about with 156s.

 

[marks87]

Would there be scope for a single 153 to replace 156s on any routes? Then the 156s could be used as a stopgap on routes affected by a shortage of 170s. Maryhill is the one that springs to mind.

Obviously not relevant given the time of year, but would a pair of (splitting) 153s be enough for the WHL in the off-season?

 

[Girner]

Would there be scope for a single 153 to replace 156s on any routes? Then the 156s could be used as a stopgap on routes affected by a shortage of 170s. Maryhill is the one that springs to mind.

Obviously not relevant given the time of year, but would a pair of (splitting) 153s be enough for the WHL in the off-season?

A taxi would be enough on the West Highlands off season.

 

[InOban]

A taxi would be enough on the West Highlands off season.

To mallaig, certainly. To Fort William, probably. To Oban, certainly not. The Sunday lunchtime train leaves with 70-90 passengers.

 

[Stopper]

Not many ScotRail services that could run with a single 153 that I’m aware of. Oban services and other West Highland trains always look fairly busy when I see them.

Maryhill services probably could, Shotts services definitely could off peak and Barrhead services might manage off peak also but neither could in peak times. Grahamston-Cumbernauld-Queen Street most definitely could.

 

[InOban]

By definition, most people travel on the trains at a time of the day/week/year when they are busiest.

A more realistic assessment comes from the day in February when the early Mallaig train hit that landslide. There were five passengers, of whom two, I think, were Scotrail crew on their way to pick up the return working.

 

[Highlandspring]

A more realistic assessment comes from the day in February when the early Mallaig train hit that landslide. There were five passengers, of whom two, I think, were Scotrail crew on their way to pick up the return working.

Five passengers, yes, but that last bit is wrong. I’d expect to see the 153s ‘permanently’ coupled to the Westie 156 sets to make them up to 3 car, diagramming them seperately as single units would be very difficult. Making the Westies up to 3 releases a unit without reducing capacity on the WHL between Queen St and Oban/Fort William and if required the 153 can be split off the 156 at Fort William and run to Mallaig alone.

 

[InOban]

So the train crew 'on the cushions' were additional? I stand corrected.

In contrast the 05.21 from Oban regularly leaves with twenty, and gets busier and busier later on.

 

[gingertom]

only strengthening capable at the moment is to double up from 2 to 4 cars, subject of course to unit availability. Being able to add one car to the formation or operate as a single car, gives enormous flexibility. Let us not forget though, that in the event of a failure a 2 car 156 can limp on on one engine, a 153 becomes stranded and needs to be rescued. On the WHL that could be miles from anywhere, blockage and resulting delays.

 

[CJSwan]

Might the 153 be teamed up with a 156 and allow a 3 car to replace a 4 car (granted its not ideal), thus permitting a 156 somewhere else and potentially allowing a wee cascade to maybe improve other services?

Apologies to moderators for contributing to thread drift...

 

[td97]

The rumour on the Northern rolling stock changes forum was of the 9 Angel 153's that GWR currently lease, 4 to Northern and 5 to EMT. Obviously it's only rumours at this stage, but at least 1 has to be wrong

 

[NotATrainspott]

I don't see single 153s happening. It would be a reasonable way to increase overcrowded 2-car Sprinter services without needing another 2-car set. Making them compliant with the accessibility regulations makes single units unviable, and the ScotRail contract requires that 2020 compliance work is done before cascaded trains enter service. The only current diesel route I can see toilets being unnecessary is the Anniesland shuttle, but then you run the risk of a single 153 conking out on Cowlairs incline and ruining the network. Remember, while it might be easy to fix today, every 380/385 or HST will be unable to assist on short notice.

 

[class26]

Not many ScotRail services that could run with a single 153 that I’m aware of. Oban services and other West Highland trains always look fairly busy when I see them.

Maryhill services probably could, Shotts services definitely could off peak and Barrhead services might manage off peak also but neither could in peak times. Grahamston-Cumbernauld-Queen Street most definitely could.

How about the Far north being 2 x 153`s ? That way at Georgemas one could go direct to Wick instead of the lengthy detour to Thurso first. Just a thought

 

[Domh245]

The rumour on the Northern rolling stock changes forum was of the 9 Angel 153's that GWR currently lease, 4 to Northern and 5 to EMT. Obviously it's only rumours at this stage, but at least 1 has to be wrong

On that note, I think I'd seen it shuffled around a bit, with EMT getting 4, and Northern not having to send one of theirs to EMT as had been originally planned.

 

[Crossover]

153's on a couple of these lines would necessitate fitment of RETB - not sure if this would present a problem with 153's or not

 

[Clansman]

The 153s were only ever proposed to be luggage vehicles (half a carriage for seats, other half for bikes & luggage racks) for the West Highland Line and Far North Line during peak seasons. Passenger service wise, the only line I could ever envisage them working solo on is the Anniesland branch. Can't see them coming up for anything other than the former, as 5 doesn't seem enough to provide regular flexible passenger operation on any of the busiest routes the Sprinters operate - thus suggesting rural or concentrated usage (ie a particular service or route) if the rumour is true.

How about the Far north being 2 x 153`s ? That way at Georgemas one could go direct to Wick instead of the lengthy detour to Thurso first. Just a thought

Doing so would take away the direct rail link between the two largest towns on the North/East coast.

I don't see single 153s happening. It would be a reasonable way to increase overcrowded 2-car Sprinter services without needing another 2-car set. Making them compliant with the accessibility regulations makes single units unviable, and the ScotRail contract requires that 2020 compliance work is done before cascaded trains enter service. The only current diesel route I can see toilets being unnecessary is the Anniesland shuttle, but then you run the risk of a single 153 conking out on Cowlairs incline and ruining the network. Remember, while it might be easy to fix today, every 380/385 or HST will be unable to assist on short notice.

This.