91's, MKIV's and the Tyne Valley

[Jock]

Evening Ladies and Gents,

can someone help me solve a argument between 3 retired auld fogies here.

are 91's + coaches cleared to run over the tyne valley given the height of the tunnel between Haltwhistle and Bardon Mill?

I ask this because i remember learning approx 4 years ago 91's+coaches not being allowed loco hauled through the tunnels at Sunderland North owing to the height/clearence between the panto/tunnel roof - and i could swear blind that the tunnel at Haltwhistle is roughly the same height.

can anyone who has access to the required info solve this dilemma for me!

Many Thanks
Jock

 

[David10]

Was in one of the magazines a few months ago that 91/MkIV sets will be dragged over the Tyne Valley line during engineering works in September.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It appears that the regular autumn diversions of East Coast services this year might be much briefer than in recent years - perhaps only on the weekend of 15th Sept. But please note that this is not reliable nor confirmed information.

In recent years, these diversions have been achieved by deploying HST sets over the route, though I do seem to recall an exceptional dragged electric set 2, 3 or perhaps more years ago. (I'd be a lousy spotter!)

Sorry that I can't add much more information.

 

[kjhskj75]

According to the sectional appendix Class 91 locos must have the pantograph locked down when passing through Whitchester tunnel, or else are limited to 15mph.

The restrictions at Sunderland are probably due to the presence of DC wiring.

In neither place is there any restriction on Mk4 coaches. They were built to a tilt-compatible profile, but never tilted, so they are quite narrow and don't have clearance problems.

 

[craig87034]

Was in one of the magazines a few months ago that 91/MkIV sets will be dragged over the Tyne Valley line during engineering works in September.

Yep According to Railways Illistrated September 15th
1E06 0650 Glasgow-Kings X
1S13 1100 Kings X-Edinburgh
1E29 1839 Edinburgh-Newcastle

 

[Liam]

1E06 0650 Glasgow-Kings X

I assume this service will still go via Edinburgh? i'e Glasgow-Carstairs Junction, Edinburgh, Carstairs Junction, Carlisle, Newcastle.

 

[jopsuk]

It would appear, from the East Coast site, that this is the case

Glasgow Central 06:50
Motherwell 07:04 07:04
Haymarket 07:45 07:46
Edinburgh 07:51 07:59
Carlisle 09:22 09:42
Newcastle 11:07 11:26
Durham 11:41 11:41
Darlington 11:59 11:59
York 12:28 12:29
Doncaster 12:52 12:52
Newark North Gate 13:17 13:17
Peterborough 13:46 13:49
London Kings Cross 14:45

 

[swt_passenger]

I ask this because i remember learning approx 4 years ago 91's+coaches not being allowed loco hauled through the tunnels at Sunderland North owing to the height/clearence between the panto/tunnel roof - and i could swear blind that the tunnel at Haltwhistle is roughly the same height.

I remember a discussion a few years ago that ended up with the firm conclusion that 91s/Mk4s are allowed through Sunderland tunnel, (with the pantograph locked down), and this was also confirmed in the 2009 snapshot of the ECML sectional appendix.

The recently re-issued online SA includes:

Between Park Lane Jn and Greensfield Jn MK4 +A.C. Electric locos are permitted diesel
hauled for diversionary purposes only with pantographs locked down.

 

[Jock]

Thank you for resolving this one

 

[jopsuk]

As an aside, if you're travelling Glasgow-London early in the morning that day, are insistent on going via the Tyne valley but aren't worried about the stock, you're better off taking the 0710 TPE to Carlisle and boarding the EC HST from Edinburgh there!

 

[bluenoxid]

Sorry, just for those of us with imaginations. When you say pantograph locked down, are you saying locked by a switch in the cab or locked as in bike chain and padlock (hey, these days nothing surprises me)