A rant about Whitehaven to Carlisle was 1050 now 1051

[OhNoAPacer]

A one minute change may seem insignificant but when it was timed as 1050 its arrival time at Carlisle was 1158, add on 8 minute change time for Carlisle station and you could book from Whitehaven to make the 1206 Euston via Birmingham.
Now it is timed for 1051 it arrives Carlisle 1059 so only 7 minutes to the Euston train so journey planners will not show the journey.
So the options now for anyone looking for a non-flexible ticket to the West Midlands e.g advances, will be shown 0909 from Whitehaven arrives Carlisle 1017 with a long wait warning until one is booked onto the 1206. Or the 1143 to connect onto the 13:xx.
I am sure someone somewhere knows why shifting the 1050 train by a minute was a good idea but I fail to see it myself.

 

[12LDA28C]

A one minute change may seem insignificant but when it was timed as 1050 its arrival time at Carlisle was 1158, add on 8 minute change time for Carlisle station and you could book from Whitehaven to make the 1206 Euston via Birmingham.
Now it is timed for 1051 it arrives Carlisle 1059 so only 7 minutes to the Euston train so journey planners will not show the journey.
So the options now for anyone looking for a non-flexible ticket to the West Midlands e.g advances, will be shown 0909 from Whitehaven arrives Carlisle 1017 with a long wait warning until one is booked onto the 1206. Or the 1143 to connect onto the 13:xx.
I am sure someone somewhere knows why shifting the 1050 train by a minute was a good idea but I fail to see it myself.

Trains are retimed for any number of reasons and no doubt there is a bigger picture to consider. Of course the train you refer to doesn't start at Whitehaven but at Barrow. Maybe Northern planners identified a regular slight delay en route and retimed it by a minute to allow extra dwell time at a particular station or extra running time in a specific section. Maybe it's a pathing issue where another train has been retimed and this train needs to meet it at a passing point.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

It sits at Barrow from about 0853 having arrived from Carlisle, so I can only guess it is a rostering issue that prevents it leaving earlier than 0928.
I do know there is a bigger picture but given the gaps in trains to Carlisle from Whitehaven, 0909 followed by 1051 then 1143, it would be nice to have the picture narrowed

 

[The Planner]

Could well be worth an email to Northern, but has the southbound train at Sellafield been altered as its a crossing move?

 

[yorksrob]

Unfortunately the network is plagued by poor timetabling, particularly in the North where train services are infrequent.

An example I've come across is the train from Middlesbrough to York at 22:20. If you want to connect to Leeds, the train from York to Leeds leaves at 22:19, a minute before the Middlesbrough one arrives. The only option after that is a train from York to Leeds at 23:14, which gets to Leeds at 23:50, useless for onward connections.

Given how few trains there are running on the network at that time, its appalling that tweaks can't be made to enable through journeys.

 

[Horizon22]

Unfortunately the network is plagued by poor timetabling, particularly in the North where train services are infrequent.

An example I've come across is the train from Middlesbrough to York at 22:20. If you want to connect to Leeds, the train from York to Leeds leaves at 22:19, a minute before the Middlesbrough one arrives. The only option after that is a train from York to Leeds at 23:14, which gets to Leeds at 23:50, useless for onward connections.

Given how few trains there are running on the network at that time, its appalling that tweaks can't be made to enable through journeys.

No way that would be offered as a change anyway - the Leeds train would have be retimed by 5+ minutes which is definitely not a simple "tweak".

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Could well be worth an email to Northern, but has the southbound train at Sellafield been altered as its a crossing move?

Don't know if the southbound has been retimed but it is a possibility of course.

 

[yorksrob]

No way that would be offered as a change anyway - the Leeds train would have be retimed by 5+ minutes which is definitely not a simple "tweak".

Connections at York shouldn't be so abysmal in the first place. I suspect that the main reason for this poor connectivity is that one train is run by "company" a and the other by "company" b (speech marks because companies a and b are both Government run).

 

[30907]

Could well be worth an email to Northern, but has the southbound train at Sellafield been altered as its a crossing move?

Neither has - the only alteration looks to be an extra minute at Workington.
It, and the 0902 off CAR, could run 1 earlier throughout as far as I can see.

 

[Hadders]

Could well be worth an email to Northern, but has the southbound train at Sellafield been altered as its a crossing move?

Agreed. I've had favourable outcomes by emailing train companies about this sort of thing in the past. Normally needs a couple of emails to get past customer services and to someone who understands the issue and can do something about it.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Been on on a Saturday on that train once or twice. I recall it got very busy ( crush loaded almost) and as a consequence took longer and longer dwell at each station call beyond Whitehaven. It got to Carlisle hopelessly late. I missed my connection across to Newcastle and to compound the misery the next train towards Newcastle was cancelled. So we were all standing for 90 minutes as it was so busy on the following service.

 

[hexagon789]

Given that it was only right time 5% of the time before being retimed and is still only right time 10% of the time - even 8 mins doesn't appear to be a reliable connection even if the official minimum allowance.

I appreciate of course it entitled a passenger to use the next available service if the connection was missed but then the situation ends up being the same as with the retimed service - having to use the next one.

 

[td97]

The same happened at Bolton in Dec 22.The Clitheroe to Rochdale (apart from early am) arrives at xx17, and the Manchester Airport was xx22. Now the Airport is xx21 which is not an official connection (5 mins minimum). Even more frustrating is the 3-4 minute pathing/engineering allowance provided to the Airport service at Bolton.

 

[Crossover]

Connections at York shouldn't be so abysmal in the first place. I suspect that the main reason for this poor connectivity is that one train is run by "company" a and the other by "company" b (speech marks because companies a and b are both Government run).

Part of the issue is the chasm in evening service levels in the evening from York to Leeds

There are currently trains via Garforth (TPE) at 2134 and 2205, after which the next one isn't until 2311 (incidentally ex Saltburn). Anything between those times is via Harrogate and therefore slower than waiting for the 2311

 

[Peter0124]

The 10:00 Glasgow to Euston via WM (11:11 from Carlisle) is still missing. Hopefully by May or December it comes back. The path is currently taken up by a Blackpool - Euston.

 

[yorksrob]

Part of the issue is the chasm in evening service levels in the evening from York to Leeds

There are currently trains via Garforth (TPE) at 2134 and 2205, after which the next one isn't until 2311 (incidentally ex Saltburn). Anything between those times is via Harrogate and therefore slower than waiting for the 2311

Indeed. This is a large gap that causes a lot of issues for people needing onward connections. It's not appropriate for the main line connecting two major cities in Yorkshire.

 

[Pinus contorta]

They have removed the request stops between Barrow and Sellafield. That's probably why the timings have changed.