A scam phone calls and emails discussion.

[Mcr Warrior]

It is definitely India. After getting enough of these calls you can tell from the way they speak to you and the syntax they use.

I am thanking you very much.

Call is never allowed to get that far to find out!

 

[najaB]

They didn’t even bother to tell me what the mystery item was.

Rude!

I am thanking you very much.

Call is never allowed to get that far to find out!

Oh, you really should take the time to see how far down the garden path you can lead them. It's quite entertaining, and any time they spend talking with you is time that they don't spend talking to someone more gullible.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Oh, you really should take the time to see how far down the garden path you can lead them.

The call was relatively early doors and in any event I'm not quite sure with these scam calls whether pressing '1' activates some premium rate charged callback.

 

[pdeaves]

The call was relatively early doors and in any event I'm not quite sure with these scam calls whether pressing '1' activates some premium rate charged callback.

As discussed further up, that cannot happen. What could happen is if you call some other number, instigating a fresh call yourself, and you unwittingly call a premium number.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Are these criminals to be viewed as "untouchable" by the police forces in the countries where they operate.....or is there collusion with "kickbacks"?

 

[py_megapixel]

Are these criminals to be viewed as "untouchable" by the police forces in the countries where they operate.....or is there collusion with "kickbacks"?

If I recall correctly from some videos I've seen on this subject - India devolves enforcement of cyber crime to the police force for the area in which the scammer is physically located.

What this presumably means is that for every region of India where a scam of this type would be shut down quickly upon receipt of reports of it taking place, there are plenty more where the scammers can happily proceed with their fraudulent activities while the authorities either are unaware that it's going on or choose to turn a blind eye. And if one region has a crackdown, then the scam businesses there might be gone, but more will soon crop up elsewhere.

Also because these scams target foreigners, and call from witheld or fake numbers, not everyone knows who to report them to.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

That's why I find it odd for a scam call - @Wilts Wanderer they know your name, phone number and last four digits of your card number. That either means it is your bank, or someone who has access to a disturbing amount of your PII.

I spent an hour on the phone with my bank this afternoon and it seems someone in America has succeeded in setting up a fraudulent direct debit from my account, to the tune of $35.99 per month. I’m getting my card changed and full refund from the bank. No idea how/why it’s happened, but at least I know the messages I got yesterday were in fact genuine! Weirdly I thought a bank needed to authorise a new DD, so the fact they were querying the payment themselves suggests something exceptionally odd has gone on. Doesn’t fill me with confidence although at least I’m not going to be out of pocket.

 

[najaB]

Weirdly I thought a bank needed to authorise a new DD, so the fact they were querying the payment themselves suggests something exceptionally odd has gone on. Doesn’t fill me with confidence although at least I’m not going to be out of pocket.

Nope. The Direct Debit Guarantee scheme means that the liability for any fraud or error lies with the bank, as long as you haven't been negligent. (At one point I knew the wording of the guarantee by heart, since we had to offer to read it out customers before setting up the DD).

As discussed further up, that cannot happen. What could happen is if you call some other number, instigating a fresh call yourself, and you unwittingly call a premium number.

Indeed. Pressing 1 (or any other number) is fine as there's no way you can be charged, calling back the number from a missed call - even if it appears to be a mobile number - is where the danger lies.

 

[Jamesrob637]

If anybody receives a scam call, can you please write here which number it was from so that we can all block said number?

Many thanks!

 

[KeithMcC]

Seem to have a sudden spate of spam calls today and yesterday - at least 6in the last 12 hours. Very annoying but we just let all calls go to the answering machine which gets rid of most of them, unless it is a known number. We have had BT call protect installed but it doesn't seem to make any difference - unless there are lost more that get stopped at that stage!

 

[swt_passenger]

I spent an hour on the phone with my bank this afternoon and it seems someone in America has succeeded in setting up a fraudulent direct debit from my account, to the tune of $35.99 per month. I’m getting my card changed and full refund from the bank. No idea how/why it’s happened, but at least I know the messages I got yesterday were in fact genuine! Weirdly I thought a bank needed to authorise a new DD, so the fact they were querying the payment themselves suggests something exceptionally odd has gone on. Doesn’t fill me with confidence although at least I’m not going to be out of pocket.

I thought a traditional “direct debit” only used your “sort code” and account number, and was set up by the payee on your say so - originally using a direct debit mandate form that you signed; and usually only bank approved organisations such as utilities were able to do this. Nowadays they can be set up on the phone, but they still don’t need to know your payment card 16 digit number.

It is standing orders that are set up by your bank on your say so.

But there’s also now a system for a firm to take repeating payments using your 16 digit card number, (is it a continuous payment authority?), but that’s not a direct debit. If the bank is changing your card only, I suspect that’s the case here.

 

[steamybrian]

If anybody receives a scam call, can you please write here which number it was from so that we can all block said number?

Many thanks!

I get a lot of scam calls many of which I have registered on the web site "who called me". There are so many different numbers which change frequently. Look at this website..
Who called me? | United Kingdom's Free Reverse Phone Lookup (who-called.co.uk)

 

[najaB]

But there’s also now a system for a firm to take repeating payments using your 16 digit card number, (is it a continuous payment authority?), but that’s not a direct debit.

Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs) aren't new - they've been around for at least a decade, probably longer than that. There are some significant differences between them and direct debits:

• The payment is taken as a debit card transaction, rather than as an account to account transfer
• They can be for any amount and the organisation can change the amount at any time
• There's no automatic right to a refund of overpayments/disputed charges - a company with a CPA can empty your bank account and it's up to you to get your money back!
• They aren't transferred over by the current account switch scheme
• Payments can only be taken while the card is valid, so if you cancel the card or it expires it is up to you to ensure that the organisation has the new details
• Some banks handle overdrafts differently for direct debits and card transactions - e.g. they might refuse a DD that puts you into unplanned overdraft but honour a card payment

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs) aren't new - they've been around for at least a decade, probably longer than that. There are some significant differences between them and direct debits:

• The payment is taken as a debit card transaction, rather than as an account to account transfer
• They can be for any amount and the organisation can change the amount at any time
• There's no automatic right to a refund of overpayments/disputed charges - a company with a CPA can empty your bank account and it's up to you to get your money back!
• They aren't transferred over by the current account switch scheme
• Payments can only be taken while the card is valid, so if you cancel the card or it expires it is up to you to ensure that the organisation has the new details
• Some banks handle overdrafts differently for direct debits and card transactions - e.g. they might refuse a DD that puts you into unplanned overdraft but honour a card payment

Every time that the bank issues a new card with a new expiry date, it seems a new three-number security code on the reverse is used.

How can that affect Continuous Payment Authorities?

 

[swt_passenger]

Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs) aren't new - they've been around for at least a decade, probably longer than that. There are some significant differences between them and direct debits:

• The payment is taken as a debit card transaction, rather than as an account to account transfer
• They can be for any amount and the organisation can change the amount at any time
• There's no automatic right to a refund of overpayments/disputed charges - a company with a CPA can empty your bank account and it's up to you to get your money back!
• They aren't transferred over by the current account switch scheme
• Payments can only be taken while the card is valid, so if you cancel the card or it expires it is up to you to ensure that the organisation has the new details
• Some banks handle overdrafts differently for direct debits and card transactions - e.g. they might refuse a DD that puts you into unplanned overdraft but honour a card payment

Thanks for the extra detail, although I didn’t really think they were “new” as such, but they came much later than traditional direct debits (DD). I actually remember DD being new, there was a time when you’d have had to set up a standing order for utilities.

I suspect that many people using CPAs get caught out by the points you mention, maybe there should be more publicity by banks that they are not subject to the same protection...

 

[najaB]

Every time that the bank issues a new card with a new expiry date, it seems a new three-number security code on the reverse is used.

How can that affect Continuous Payment Authorities?

How You would have to set the payment up again.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The other day I had a spam text and pressed the "report spam" bit on my phone.

Message back from Vodafone…

“Thanks for reporting a spam text. Please reply to this message with the number that contacted you so we can look into this for you.”

Underneath that….







“Sender doesn’t support replies”.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How would have to set the payment up again.

It happens to me with a couple of companies that I use this methodology upon. They contact me when the expiry date of my old card has passed and the new card three-number code is notified to them.

 

[Steddenm]

Had a spam text today. Not even the HSBC website. Oh and I don't bank with them!

 

[najaB]

View attachment 90097

Had a spam text today. Not even the HSBC website. Oh and I don't bank with them!

It's a reasonable approximation of the real site:

Scammers



Real site:


It's easy to see how someone could get fooled, other than the unusual domain name.

(I used a VM to access the scammer's site and didn't enter any information)

 

[A Challenge]

View attachment 90097

Had a spam text today. Not even the HSBC website. Oh and I don't bank with them!

I also had one 'from HSBC' today, albeit a different number, saying a new payee had been set up, and asked me to visit a different website to sort it out, which was a reasonable approximation of the HSBC address, but they don't use .payees-validate.com, so I'm guessing it wasn't them

 

[MotCO]

It's a reasonable approximation of the real site:

Scammers

View attachment 90099

Real site:
View attachment 90100

It's easy to see how someone could get fooled, other than the unusual domain name.

(I used a VM to access the scammer's site and didn't enter any information)

That is worryingly good

 

[najaB]

That is worryingly good

On the plus side, it's now been flagged by Google Safe Browsing so will throw up a warning page in Chrome and Firefox (and probably other browsers).

 

[Steddenm]

Yet another one today!

EDIT: And TWO more after the original post...

 

[Bevan Price]

Warning about a new scam. I got an email which is a new scam claiming to offer refunds from DVLA due to tax overpayment.

I normally set my email reader to read messages as plain text, and it displayed partly as some script from the Indian sub-continent, which I assume may be Urdu or Hindi, et. (Sample below)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

, Dhaka, Bangladesh, Pahim, 2331, Kishoreganj, Bangladesh
আপনি যে কোনো সময়ে সদস্যতা ত্যাগ করতে পারবেন

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I viewed it in HTML mode, it showed a message from DVLA, inviting me to click a link to claim repayment. Doubtless if I had been foolish enough to click the link, I would have been invited to supply my bank details.....

 

[najaB]

I normally set my email reader to read messages as plain text, and it displayed partly as some script from the Indian sub-continent, which I assume may be Urdu or Hindi, et. (Sample below)

Google Translate says Bengali - which makes sense given the address. It translates as "You can unsubscribe at any time".

 

[Westcountryman]

Not really a scam phone call. My daughter checked her on-line bank app and found someone had ordered some kind of show tickets and a pizza takeaway with her debit card. So she has to cancel her card, get a replacement, get her money refunded and not be able to use her card for several days.

My wife has just had a probable scam call. A chap called 'Alex' (bet you can guess where we think he was from) asking to talk about a free loft insulation survey. my wife asked him what he was on about. He said he didn't know as all he had to do was ask the questions. My wife said when he knows what he is talking about to call back. Anyone had similar?

 

[najaB]

my wife asked him what he was on about. He said he didn't know as all he had to do was ask the questions.

That actually sounds genuine, rather than being a scam.

 

[Typhoon]

My wife has just had a probable scam call. A chap called 'Alex' (bet you can guess where we think he was from) asking to talk about a free loft insulation survey. my wife asked him what he was on about. He said he didn't know as all he had to do was ask the questions. My wife said when he knows what he is talking about to call back. Anyone had similar?

They might actually be from this country. I have these from time to time, they want to find whether you are eligible for a Green Homes Grant which gets you money off certain 'green' improvements to your home, if so they will push you to have the work done, you will be pleased that you are getting money from the government to have home improvements, oh! there's a catch, you've been turned down, but they will come to the rescue by offering you 60% off the cost which they inflated in the first place. If you accept, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly will turn up, unfortunately the work will look like they were wearing Covid masks over their eyes when they did it.

Work on the Green Homes Scheme can only be carried out by a select band of contractors, many are pi$$ed off because they haven't been paid by HMG, or their customer's haven't been given the OK so are loathe to do the work. It regularly features on programmes like 'You and Yours' and 'Money Box'. If you want to take advantage, look on the .gov.uk website, and find someone who can actually do the work. Cowboys are just taking advantage.

Gov website: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-the-green-homes-grant-scheme

Which?'s view: from https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/07/beware-green-homes-grant-scams/

Scams targeting homeowners with promises about the Green Homes Grant scheme started appearing just days after the new home energy efficiency scheme was announced by the government. Some homeowners have received scam calls, emails and texts telling them that they are eligible for the grants, while other scams have claimed to offer specific energy-saving measures such as insulation.

(Apologies if you can't open the link, it may be that I can as I am a Which? subscriber and I was looking at some reviews earlier - the essence is in the quote)

I know a little bit about it as I let them ramble on reading the script then when they get to the end and ask whether I am interested, I ask why they were calling me since they had said that it was for homeowners, 'Are you not a homeowner?' - I have wasted their time (especially as their calls come from nowhere near here). Genuine approved contractors have either lost interest or are so overworked that they haven't got time or the inclination to call round. I've had a quick look at approved contractors in my area for about half a dozen categories - I found 3 who did any of the work, 2 of which would be best served arriving by boat. They are very rare!

Late thought: I did have one call actually fairly recently that might have come from the sub-continent, he told me that I didn't need to be a homeowner. That is nonsense. Either the homeowner or the residential landlord has to apply.

 

[Hardcastle]

Had a call this afternoon saying my NI number had been compromised a male recorded message from 0747741497 i just hung up.