A4 Bittern 90mph running - Which sections?

[sekimoke]

Hello, this saturday Bittern is in charge of the Ebor Streak which has special permission for 90mph. It is said that 66 miles between London and York are allocated for 75mph+ running, but does anyone know which sections if track Bittern will be doing its highs speed run?

I assume Stoke Bank will be one of the sections, but what about the others?

If anyone could shed light on this and/or the other two runs as well that would be great.
Thanks!

 

[E&W Lucas]

I assume Stoke Bank will be one of the sections, but what about the others?

Wrong way on Stoke Bank - Down direction is uphill!

Doncaster to York would be the most obvious section; beyond that, download a gradient profile, and look for the downhill bits.

 

[sekimoke]

Wrong way on Stoke Bank - Down direction is uphill!

Doncaster to York would be the most obvious section; beyond that, download a gradient profile, and look for the downhill bits.

oops, I suppose that'll be on the return then.
Thanks for the advice, I'll have a look

 

[E&W Lucas]

oops, I suppose that'll be on the return then.
Thanks for the advice, I'll have a look

Return trip is A/C hauled.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The 75+ sections are:

Hitchin to Offord
Great Ponton to Crow Park
Arksey to Colton Junction

 

[sekimoke]

The 75+ sections are:

Hitchin to Offord
Great Ponton to Crow Park
Arksey to Colton Junction

Thanks very much, that's very helpful!
Did you work these out from gradient profiles or other sources?

 

[Teaboy1]

If I were at home I would get myself to Moss village (next to Askern) and take the footpath along the railway to a darn good spot I use. Go through yard where a new farm house is being built and over stile along side of field using public footpath. Get get good views about 1 mile open vista. Plenty of open tree-free views here, sounds well also.
Sorry cant give grid ref, am in Ashkelon at moment working.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thanks very much, that's very helpful!
Did you work these out from gradient profiles or other sources?

It was published in Steam Railway issue 414, along with the details of the 75+ sections for the other two runs...

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . Did you work these out from gradient profiles or other sources?

Of the 3 stretches that Peter quoted, only that from Great Ponton is a significant downhill run (about 80 meters drop over 25 miles).

Hitchin to Offord is a net drop of about 48 meters over a similar distance with some minor ups and downs at Sandy and St Neots, while Arksey to Colton is flat to Balne, then only climbs 5 meters to Hambleton Jn, down again and back up for Colton.

 

[Tracked]

Photo'd about half an hour ago, at Barrier Bank foot crossing, Bentley S. Yorks. It was cracking on a bit too, heard it a long time before it appeared

 

[sekimoke]

Thanks for the info everyone! I managed to film it at Frinkley Lane just north of Grantham. Hopefully I'll be able to catch Bittern on the capital streak as well.

 

[Johnuk123]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23109971

Bittern set off from platform four at King's Cross, stopping at Potters Bar in Hertfordshire, to pick up more passengers.Up to 250 people were on board the train, which reached 92.8mph.

 

[Teaboy1]

92.8 MPH, thats not bad all things considered. How many coaches? Where abouts did it reach max speed?

 

[speckledjim]

Couple of good videos on youtube and great coverage in media. Wonder if this will become a more regular event for certain engines? (I read that these 2 runs were one offs and nothing more, but it surely would be of benefit to all those concerned if 90 was allowed in certain parts.)

I am hoping to catch the 2nd trip on the 27th July - would anyone know what time Bittern is likely to be in the huntingdon/st Neots area?? Am aware it is the return trip only.

 

[dzug2]

Timings are dep York 1630 arr Potters Bar 2010 KGX 2030

Still provisional though

 

[Dasher]

Wrong way on Stoke Bank - Down direction is uphill!

Doncaster to York would be the most obvious section; beyond that, download a gradient profile, and look for the downhill bits.

Any link available to said gradient profile info ?

 

[broadgage]

I thought that Tornado was designed for 100MPH running, if so then it seems a pity not allow this speed for both Tornado and suitably maintained other steam locomotives.

Although the 126MPH record was a one off, was not 100MPH achieved fairly regularly back in the old days.

 

[Teaboy1]

I totally agree, if the hundred club were widely promoted, just think of the visitors and overseas tourists who would book just to be on such a train. Modern track can take the hammer-blow and given a good well maintained A4 I think it would work!!
Make our steam rail industry appeal to the rest of world.

 

[Southwest]

I totally agree, if the hundred club were widely promoted, just think of the visitors and overseas tourists who would book just to be on such a train. Modern track can take the hammer-blow and given a good well maintained A4 I think it would work!!
Make our steam rail industry appeal to the rest of world.

I agree to an extent but imagine the embarrasment if a trip was cancelled because a 40/50 year old engine went u/s, the Americans would want to sue the butt of the TC.

 

[E&W Lucas]

I thought that Tornado was designed for 100MPH running, if so then it seems a pity not allow this speed for both Tornado and suitably maintained other steam locomotives.

Although the 126MPH record was a one off, was not 100MPH achieved fairly regularly back in the old days.

Slight problem - Mk 1 & Mk 2 sets are restricted to 90 MPH - See Rule Book Module, Page 10: http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Rule Book Modules/TW - Train Working/GERT8000-TW3 Iss 2.pdf

Even if you could get dispensation (unlikely), the cost of extra wear and tear on the loco would be considerable. We are already getting to the stage, where the cost of running on the Network is prohibitive for some groups.

 

[Mainliner]

Even if you could get dispensation (unlikely), the cost of extra wear and tear on the loco would be considerable. We are already getting to the stage, where the cost of running on the Network is prohibitive for some groups.

The recent report on the restoration of 4472 made many recommendations for future running and maintenance, to ensure best possible preservation, including:

"Maximum speed should be no more than 75 mph and mainline route point to point timings such that the locomotive does not need to be driven at anywhere near its maximum potential."

http://www.nrm.org.uk/aboutus/~/media/Files/NRM/PDF/NRM Flying Scotsman Final Report.pdf

 

[jamieP]

Slight problem - Mk 1 & Mk 2 sets are restricted to 90 MPH - See Rule Book Module, Page 10: http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Rule Book Modules/TW - Train Working/GERT8000-TW3 Iss 2.pdf

Even if you could get dispensation (unlikely), the cost of extra wear and tear on the loco would be considerable. We are already getting to the stage, where the cost of running on the Network is prohibitive for some groups.

How come so many of them say 100mph on the ends?

 

[E&W Lucas]

How come so many of them say 100mph on the ends?

Read the Rule Book information quoted above.

 

[notadriver]

First time I've looked at that module! Interesting.

 

[jamieP]

Read the Rule Book information quoted above.

Still dosnt explain why a class 86 can haul coaches at 100mph and 47s at 95mph.

 

[sekimoke]

I obtained a copy of Steam Railway 414 and the possible high speed sections are as follows:

Tyne-Tees streak
Northbound- Sessay to Darlington (but 75mph speed restriction at 29m74ch), and Durham to Low Fell.
Southbound- Aycliffe to Skelton Junction (but again 75mph restriction at 29m74ch)
total approx 84 miles

Capital streak:
Colton Junction - Arksey
Askham Tunnel - Newark Crossing
Stoke Summit - Peterborough (note 75mph restriction at Little Bytham viaduct, 92m58ch, and also 10mph restriction over the bridge south of Peterborough)
Abbots Ripton- Arlesey
total approx 83 miles

 

[Tracked]

did this run today? was looking at realtimetrains yesterday and couldn't see it on there

 

[sekimoke]

Nope, the Capital Streak is postponed to 31st August

 

[jamieP]

Slight problem - Mk 1 & Mk 2 sets are restricted to 90 MPH - See Rule Book Module, Page 10: http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Rule Book Modules/TW - Train Working/GERT8000-TW3 Iss 2.pdf

Even if you could get dispensation (unlikely), the cost of extra wear and tear on the loco would be considerable. We are already getting to the stage, where the cost of running on the Network is prohibitive for some groups.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=87120 intresting thread on 100mph mk1 and mk2 coaches.

The 90mph restriction only applies if the train has two locomotives attached unless they are class 67s or if the train is formed of 6 or less coaches with one locomotive.

 

[D1009]

I've heard that tomorrow's and Saturday's 90 mph runs have today been cancelled by Network Rail. No idea why.