Abbey Flyer

[metromuppet]

Hi all-

A few questions regarding the Abbey Line (Watford Junction- St Albans Abbey),

I am aware that the train used is a 321, which has 1st class on board, but is First Class actually enforced? The timetable at the stations do not state first class, but national rail does. So would a standard ticket be valid in that accomodation?

Toilets on board- is it usual for the toilets on board to be locked out of use? Every time I have been on board, they are always locked.

Lastly, which day does the unit get swapped round?

Kind regards,

 

[Ibex]

The units do have "First Class" but there is no First Class fare on the line so it's declassified.

The toilets are always locked for various reasons. Not necessarily to prevent fare evasion but also to reduce vandalism, and the units aren't cleaned until they go back to Bletchley so the toilets are locked out for hygiene reasons too - 16 minutes isn't exactly a long journey without a loo anyway. They have a litter pick and the bins emptied on the 11.16 or 12.01 departure from Watford with a cleaner from Euston.

The unit is swapped every Wednesday night with a fresh unit from Bletchley though it's not uncommon for the unit to go back to Bletchley if there's a possession on the branch, with the same unit coming back the next morning.

 

[transportphoto]

The units do have "First Class" but there is no First Class fare on the line so it's declassified.

Just because there are no first class fares for said line, doesn't mean it is always declassified, there may be passengers with through tickets from [where-ever] which do have first class fares. Can you back this up with evidence that it is the case for FC to be declassified?

TP

 

[Daniel]

Just because there are no first class fares for said line, doesn't mean it is always declassified, there may be passengers with through tickets from [where-ever] which do have first class fares. Can you back this up with evidence that it is the case for FC to be declassified?

TP

Yeah, the timetable which doesnt show FC as available.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yeah, the timetable which doesnt show FC as available.

What TP states appeared to be NXEA's policy on the matter. Even if the timetable does not indicate first class if there are through fares with first class available it is considered to be first class accommodation. There was a rather large thread on it a few months ago. My personal thoughts on that are :roll:

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Thank God Nat Ex don't operate the London Midland franchise, otherwise there'd all of a sudden be some very confused Abbey Flyer users!

(Explanation - NXEA charged made-up first class fares (I think an extra tenner) for 170s operating on the Norwich-Sheringham line, which, as the timetable displays, doesn't have any booked first class accommodation. IIRC this occurred in August 2011.)

 

[transportphoto]

Yeah, the timetable which doesnt show FC as available.

I am aware, however, I was pointing out that just because there isn't a FC ticket on the line doesn't mean that there isn't any FC

 

[MidnightFlyer]

This situation exists with any 317 that works to Chingford / Hertford East etc - these route have no first class fares, and are treated by the locals as being declassified. Did NXEA ever have a hissy fit over this? I was on one this Saturday and it was just treated as standard class - then again I never saw any RPIs whatsoever on the route, but it looked as though it wasn't a problem.

 

[ntg]

I have a question...wasn't this supposed to become a light rail line? Seems like HCC have gone quiet on that.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I have a question...wasn't this supposed to become a light rail line? Seems like HCC have gone quiet on that.

Aye, thankfully it has gone quiet, however, last I heard, before Christmas I believe, it was still going ahead.

 

[Daniel]

What TP states appeared to be NXEA's policy on the matter. Even if the timetable does not indicate first class if there are through fares with first class available it is considered to be first class accommodation. There was a rather large thread on it a few months ago. My personal thoughts on that are :roll:

Thank you and Matt for explaining that.


I commute on the Hertford 317's, and 1st is at least treated as declassified as far as I'm aware!

 

[ainsworth74]

I commute on the Hertford 317's, and 1st is at least treated as declassified as far as I'm aware!

I'm fairly sure that NXEA were alone in that interpretation so I don't think you're wrong in that view!

 

[Nym]

And since NXEA are now dead, it should have died with them...

And I am personally hoping there is something done to improve the service frequency on the abbey flyer, (and that ATOC clarifies fares there, is a SAC - London ticket valid via the flyer??)

Not at all due to the fact that I might be moving to Salbeans soon.. Honest

 

[swt_passenger]

And I am personally hoping there is something done to improve the service frequency on the abbey flyer...

Well that's exactly why the tram tender has been re-let, to allow for that higher frequency that you want...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Well that's exactly why the tram tender has been re-let, to allow for that higher frequency that you want...

Or build a crossing loop at Bricket Wood to allow half-hourly running...

 

[causton]

Or build a crossing loop at Bricket Wood to allow half-hourly running...

That's why it's going to light rail. Unfortunately heavy rail is so much of a shambles they don't have money for the signalling needed - so I believe the tram might (can't find the source) work on line-of-sight signalling and they will just install the loop

 

[12CSVT]

That's why it's going to light rail. Unfortunately heavy rail is so much of a shambles they don't have money for the signalling needed - so I believe the tram might (can't find the source) work on line-of-sight signalling and they will just install the loop

Presumably the level crossing at Watford North would need upgrading - it was still operated manually last time I travelled on this line.

 

[Bald Rick]

Presumably the level crossing at Watford North would need upgrading - it was still operated manually last time I travelled on this line.

You haven't been for a while then, it's an ABCL.

A loop for heavy rail needs signalling. For light rail it's a lot simpler and therefore cheaper.

 

[Nym]

Well, one does hope that it will be a Tram that will be operated by either FCC, EMT or LM and remain under the hat of ATOC's ticketing, (Like networks such as WMM and Metrolink SHOULD be!)

 

[mtmikethom]

The toilets are always locked for various reasons. Not necessarily to prevent fare evasion

Fare evasion! on the number of occasions I have used the line over the years, its has been pretty rare to see a conductor selling/checking tickets (unless it has changed in last few months).

 

[Z12XE]

(Explanation - NXEA charged made-up first class fares (I think an extra tenner) for 170s operating on the Norwich-Sheringham line, which, as the timetable displays, doesn't have any booked first class accommodation. IIRC this occurred in August 2011.)

Leading the subject further astray into this one.

This is not a made up fare, NXEA (and now GA) offer a £10 upgrade to first class which costs £10. Whether it should have been applied is another issue but this £10 GXC does offically exist

 

[jopsuk]

If it wasn't for the hilariously high cost of doing so, and the recent cancellation of the FCC Oyster-to-St Albans plan (by the DfT), then a not entirely daft concept would be to put in a dive under or flyover to connect the DC to the Abbey Line, put in passing loops and signalling as appropriate and run some of the Overground sevices through

 

[Trog]

If it wasn't for the hilariously high cost of doing so, and the recent cancellation of the FCC Oyster-to-St Albans plan (by the DfT), then a not entirely daft concept would be to put in a dive under or flyover to connect the DC to the Abbey Line, put in passing loops and signalling as appropriate and run some of the Overground sevices through

It is a daft idea as you would have to go so deep to avoid the roads that run under both the WCML and DC lines that you would be underground for most of the way between Watford North and Watford High Street. Which would mean a new underground platform on the connecting line at Watford Junction.

Alternatively if you went high enough to get over the WCML OHL, given the way the DC drops away between Watford Junction and Watford High Street. You would end up with a flyover so huge it would make the one at Bletchley look like a cattle creep.

 

[calc7]

You would end up with a flyover so huge it would make the one at Bletchley look like a cattle creep.

fantastic!

 

[jopsuk]

It is a daft idea as you would have to go so deep to avoid the roads that run under both the WCML and DC lines that you would be underground for most of the way between Watford North and Watford High Street. Which would mean a new underground platform on the connecting line at Watford Junction.

Alternatively if you went high enough to get over the WCML OHL, given the way the DC drops away between Watford Junction and Watford High Street. You would end up with a flyover so huge it would make the one at Bletchley look like a cattle creep.

Fair enough! My lack of knowledge about the local geography shows.

 

[metromuppet]

According to a e-mail reply from LM customer service, First Class does exist on this service and is for First Class ticket holders only, yet there are no first class day fares avaliable, only weekly 1st class tickets!

 

[radamfi]

yet there are no first class day fares avaliable, only weekly 1st class tickets!

There are First Class fares from Abbey Flyer stations to places away from the line, e.g. St Albans Abbey to Bristol TM, Watford North to Brighton etc.

 

[jon0844]

Seems like they've forgotten to put this in their timetable then;

http://www.londonmidland.com/download/58340.1/watford-st-albans-abbey/

If the services are quite often crowded and there's a reason to get a first class ticket to secure some room, why not create some fares and mark it in the timetable - and then enforce it?

 

[metromuppet]

Also according to this site, first class is not avaliable,
http://www.londonmidland.com/tickets-and-fares/tickets-and-fares/first-class-travel/

 

[jon0844]

Then I think we can safely say that London Midland was wrong to say that there's first class on the route.

Perhaps they've recently hired someone from National Express to deal with customer queries?!