Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[Adrian1980uk]

And if it is the truth will those on here who have been so critical of GA and Stadler about the issue admit they were wrong?

I've actually sympathised with them, when things start going wrong it takes a lot of hard work to get it back right

 

[F Great Eastern]

And if it is the truth will those on here who have been so critical of GA and Stadler about the issue admit they were wrong?

Isn't the article talking about one single line that has a different signalling system to the other rural lines?

You are aware that the problems have been going on over a number of lines which don't have the same signalling system as Norwich to Sheringham, yes?

The Norwich to Sheringham situation appears to be as a consequence of the near miss with the level crossing on that line a few weeks ago, rather than being the same as the issue on the other rural lines.

 

[dk1]

Isn't the article talking about one single line that has a different signalling system to the other rural lines?

You are aware that the problems have been going on over a number of lines which don't have the same signalling system as Norwich to Sheringham, yes?

Wasn't the Sheringham route some American style signalling system? I was involved in testing in the early 2000s but it all becomes a boring blur over the years.

 

[Andydurrant]

755327 working Ipswich to Felixstowe today.

 

[Railperf]

Now you've lost me again!!

Lol. What is all this talk about Peterboro to Ipswich 755 service cancellation being caused by some issue at Manea??? Or is there some double meaning in there?

 

[Railperf]

How many 755 Ipswich - Cambridge diagrams at present?

 

[F Great Eastern]

How many 755 Ipswich - Cambridge diagrams at present?

Today I saw a 755 which was operating off the overhead lines between Stowmarket and Ipswich and a 156 on there, although the later was sick.

Another diagram, the one that does the 19:41 from Cambridge, has been cancelled for the rest of the night, but it's not one of the above trains.

The 156 is still operating, but could hardly call it running, still losing time everywhere.

 

[dk1]

Lol. What is all this talk about Peterboro to Ipswich 755 service cancellation being caused by some issue at Manea??? Or is there some double meaning in there?

Well documented Manea ASDO issues.

 

[MarkWiles]

"Network Rail and Greater Anglia colleagues literally worked through day and night to fully understand the causes," he said.
"Network Rail installed sophisticated signal measuring equipment on Norwich-Cromer-Sheringham line to gain vital information on what was happening, particularly regarding level crossings.

"The information that came back showed the signalling system wasn't picking up both old and new trains as strongly as Network Rail would like."

Call me a cynic, but that little gem suggests that, given the signalling in question dates from 2000:

1) Either the good citizens of North Walsham, Cromer and Sheringham have been "dicing with death" for nearly 19 years in all kinds of East Anglian weather on the older trains that the signalling system isn't picking up "as strongly as NR would like" or

2) AGA have employed Malcolm Tucker as their new ubermeister of spin.

The track circuits have apparently worked well for nearly 20 years but the first autumn the new stock is in service they get a wrong side failure at a level crossing, and all of a sudden all trains, including ones which were maintaining a good service last autumn, are potentially not responding as they should?

 

[LAX54]

00:25 ***** 5Q45 NCH CRNPT 22:18 SUDBURY 00:25 STP TO 171219 171219 EE
***** 01:30 5Q48 SUDBURY 01:30 COLCHESTR 02:18 STP WO 181219 181219 EE
04:01 ***** 5Q49 COLCHESTR 03:18 SUDBURY 04:01 STP WO 181219 181219 EE
***** 04:05 5Q50 SUDBURY 04:05 NCH CRNPT 06:17 STP WO 181219 181219 EE

Timings for the 'test' trips on the Sudbury, should be NO 'Signalling problems' on that bit of line 5Q45 was running 55 late, after being late of the depot.

 

[Chris125]

The track circuits have apparently worked well for nearly 20 years but the first autumn the new stock is in service they get a wrong side failure at a level crossing, and all of a sudden all trains, including ones which were maintaining a good service last autumn, are potentially not responding as they should?

Perhaps the underlying issue isn't as severe with other train designs seen on the line so it went unnoticed?

 

[AlexNL]

That's my interpretation as well: none of the trains were detected as well as Network Rail expected they would have been, but there haven't been issues so far.

And then the Stadlers came along and things changed.

 

[LAX54]

Perhaps the underlying issue isn't as severe with other train designs seen on the line so it went unnoticed?

In 20 years, and assuming it is the same system, I doubt very much it would have been missed, a Driver would know when the booms should lower, and if even a second or two late, he/she would know, also the S&T / PWay on the track over that time would also see something amiss, even the public would report it, if it seemed to quick, (and yes they do report AHB's many times), then there is the annual barrier check, which IF all else failed would highlight the problem. (which is a 8 to 10 hour test of everything, including timings etc)
UNLESS the system / type of equipment was changed wholesale in the past 8 to 12 months, it would not have been missed over the years.

 

[Chris125]

In 20 years, and assuming it is the same system, I doubt very much it would have been missed, a Driver would know when the booms should lower, and if even a second or two, he/she would know, also the S&T / PWay on the track over that time would also see something amiss, even the public would report it, if it seemed to quick, (and yes they do report AHB's many times), then there is the annual barrier check, which IF all else failed would highlight the problem. (which is a 8 to 10 hour test of everything, including timings etc)

Apparently it's an unusual (unique?) design to this line.

 

[LAX54]

Apparently it's an unusual (unique?) design to this line which is surely a significant factor,

Don't know about unique, but as said there is a barrier system test every 12 months, they go through everything with a fine toothcomb, anything untoward would have flagged up during this testing process(and yes, timers, timed to the second)

 

[Chris125]

Don't know about unique, but as said there is a barrier system test every 12 months, they go through everything with a fine toothcomb, anything untoward would have flagged up during this testing process(and yes, timers, timed to the second)

Which would suggest a design characteristic/flaw, rather than a fault.

 

[LAX54]

Which would suggest a design characteristic/flaw, rather than a fault.

How can it be a design flaw? The S&T know the exact timings, and replicate that many times during the test, so that part is correct, the driver of each train can see clearly the crossings on that line, so we are saying that they have not twigged in all those years, that the crossings lower when they are very, very close to it ? Crews know when a set of barriers should lower, it becomes second nature, they would know straight away something is not quite right, and also surely would have been picked up elsewhere in the Country? The system is not just used on this line.
Everything was fine until the new kids on the block started
19 years all types about 50 to 55 a day no problem ... 14 days with a 755 maybe 3 or 4 times in a day as not in full service, still training etc

 

[smsm1]

Interesting to see so many Class 755s this morning at Ipswich. That's the first time I've seen 3 at the same time.

The normal path for getting a train from Crown Point to Ipswich for the 0654 was used for a 3 car Felixstowe train, which was then sat at platform 1. That confused several regulars who just hopped on in the usual place.
The train from Lowestoft to Harwich International was a Class 156.
The 2R03 from Felixstowe was a 4 car Class 755, which turned into the 2W04 to Cambridge (which I'm now on).
Then the 2W04 Bury St Edmunds to Ipswich came in on platform 4 and was a Class 755. First time I've seen one on that journey. Looking at RTT, it looks as though it's going to do the Ipswich - Lowestoft at 0735.

 

[trebor79]

0633 Norwich to Cambridge cancelled this morning. According to GA, a train fault, according to RTT a problem at the depot.
At least the following EMR made additional stops everywhere except Brandon to pick people up.

 

[smsm1]

On the 0654 Ipswich-Cambridge, people are already standing from Newmarket with a 4 car train. When are the 5 car versions going to be built, or the timetable sorted so that there isn't a big gap between this one and the next one at 0821?

 

[dk1]

On the 0654 Ipswich-Cambridge, people are already standing from Newmarket with a 4 car train. When are the 5 car versions going to be built, or the timetable sorted so that there isn't a big gap between this one and the next one at 0821?

No chance of 5-cars.

 

[ExCommuter]

Reading the GA statement :-

"The information that came back showed the signalling system wasn't picking up both old and new trains as strongly as Network Rail would like."

it struct me that what it did NOT say was that the signalling system was picking up old and new trains EQUALLY well/badly. It could be that although the old trains were being picked up less strongly than Network Rail (NR) would like it was still sufficient for the trains to be detected properly. This does not make the GA statement wrong just potentially mis-leading.

 

[Grumbler]

Reading the GA statement :-


it struct me that what it did NOT say was that the signalling system was picking up old and new trains EQUALLY well/badly. It could be that although the old trains were being picked up less strongly than Network Rail (NR) would like it was still sufficient for the trains to be detected properly. This does not make the GA statement wrong just potentially mis-leading.

It may be that the new trains do not conduct sufficient current to trigger the track circuits. But what is "sufficient"? Is there an industry standard? If not then surely NR must have tested their equipment and know the maximum "ohmage" needed?

 

[smsm1]

Interestingly the 0654 was 12 late from Ipswich. Acceleration on electric was impressive, with some 100mph running according to my phone GPS into Needham Market and Stowmarket. Then only a minute late according to the public timetable at Cambridge. Pretty impressive picking up of time. Hopefully that will feed to some reduction in normal running time when the timetable is redrawn.

 

[axlecounter]

It may be that the new trains do not conduct sufficient current to trigger the track circuits. But what is "sufficient"? Is there an industry standard? If not then surely NR must have tested their equipment and know the maximum "ohmage" needed?

AFAIK there is an industry standard (or possibly more than one). There’s standards for literally anything, an important thing such as occupying track circuits can’t be left out...

 

[86246]

Interestingly the 0654 was 12 late from Ipswich. Acceleration on electric was impressive, with some 100mph running according to my phone GPS into Needham Market and Stowmarket. Then only a minute late according to the public timetable at Cambridge. Pretty impressive picking up of time. Hopefully that will feed to some reduction in normal running time when the timetable is redrawn.

Getting up to 100mph prior to Stowmarket from a stop at Needham Market with that crossing restriction would be very impressive going.

 

[Abbo]

Apparently it's an unusual (unique?) design to this line.

It is /was unique. The spelling might be wrong but I think Ansoldo , Westinghouse subsiduary, wanted to flog this American system to the UK and the Bittern Line was the test bed. As far as know , for whatever reason, it wasn't installed elsewhere in the UK.

 

[trebor79]

It is /was unique. The spelling might be wrong but I think Ansoldo , Westinghouse subsiduary, wanted to flog this American system to the UK and the Bittern Line was the test bed. As far as know , for whatever reason, it wasn't installed elsewhere in the UK.

Aren't there lots of reliability problems with it, such as the system not working when there's lightening nearby? Or has that been solved now?

 

[ge-gn]

It is /was unique. The spelling might be wrong but I think Ansoldo , Westinghouse subsiduary, wanted to flog this American system to the UK and the Bittern Line was the test bed. As far as know , for whatever reason, it wasn't installed elsewhere in the UK.

In use on the Bletchley to Bedford Line also.

Aren't there lots of reliability problems with it, such as the system not working when there's lightening nearby? Or has that been solved now?

Signalling has been affected by lightning storms for time and memorial.

 

[hwl]

Reading the GA statement :-


it struct me that what it did NOT say was that the signalling system was picking up old and new trains EQUALLY well/badly. It could be that although the old trains were being picked up less strongly than Network Rail (NR) would like it was still sufficient for the trains to be detected properly. This does not make the GA statement wrong just potentially mis-leading.

It very much looks like the problem stick lube + leaf mulch combination was contaminating the rails and not just the wheels hence the older stock was also effected but far less.