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Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

306024

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Would every 45mins work?

In principle yes. The debate last time was whether to run every 40 minutes or every hour, and it was decided the frequency was more important than an easier to remember timetable.

The key is to get the main line trains to pass roughly at Wickford. That also ensures reverse connections to and from Southend also work. Two trains passing at North Fambridge is all that can work on the branch.

A 45 min service means there is slightly more flexibility at Wickford so the up and down Southend trains can be a couple of minutes apart. The greater acceleration of these trains could also help connection times at Wickford.
 
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delticdave

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Would every 45mins work?

Good point......
It would provide additional dwell time at Wickford & Southminster &/or the crossing loop at North Fambridge.
As for connections with local bus services, they're rubbish now anyway.
 

LAX54

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Will be a good while yet before it's allowed to do anything other than the SPZ testing. That's of course assuming that all goes well. It is still nothing to do with GA as not handed over.

If anyone recalls the 360 trials and SPZ's ? they took ages, having seen the 755 passing, I think the long overhang each end will cause issues at various places !
 

Railperf

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Will mileage accumulation have been carried out abroad or does it all have to be counted in the UK? Here's hoping there are no axle counter interference issues, but hopefully that was all dealt with when the 360s and 379's were introduced.
 

delticdave

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In principle yes. The debate last time was whether to run every 40 minutes or every hour, and it was decided the frequency was more important than an easier to remember timetable.

The key is to get the main line trains to pass roughly at Wickford. That also ensures reverse connections to and from Southend also work. Two trains passing at North Fambridge is all that can work on the branch.

A 45 min service means there is slightly more flexibility at Wickford so the up and down Southend trains can be a couple of minutes apart. The greater acceleration of these trains could also help connection times at Wickford.

The greater acceleration of the new Aventuras working the Southend trains or the (possible...) Bi-Mode Flirts working the branch?
Only a possibility of course, but the 5-car Aventuras can't fit either bay platform at Wickford. Maybe we get to keep our 321's instead?
 

dk1

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The greater acceleration of the new Aventuras working the Southend trains or the (possible...) Bi-Mode Flirts working the branch?
Only a possibility of course, but the 5-car Aventuras can't fit either bay platform at Wickford. Maybe we get to keep our 321's instead?
Doubt any Stadler units will ever see work East of Shenfield.
 

Wivenswold

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Two things

1) it’s wrong to assume these trains will be running non-stop between Stansted and Liverpool St. If anything, they are more likely to stop more than they do today.

2) even if it was the case that they would run non-stop, there would be at least a year where the new trains are brought into service in the existing timetable.

I didn't say they were Mr Rick. Just that no-one outside of GA knows what the service will be, so assuming the current stopping pattern is wrong as is not considering it. A year? I doubt that very much.
 

Wivenswold

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Under the Franchise Agreement TS1 applies until May 19. TSR 2 May 19-May 20, TSR 3 from May 20. You can see that the only way to achieve the minimum number of stops specified at Stortford/Harlow T/Tottenham Hale is for current stopping patterns to be maintained, more or less. In fact in the combined periods 0200-0659 and 0700-0959 the number of stops at Tott Hale in the up direction is TSR 1 38, 2 42, 3 42, so very similar to today.

The plan may well have been to use 10 car 720s on WA, but I think that will have to be revised. 10 car 720s cant go to Hertford East nor Kings Lynn. Infrastructure work to accommodate them should have been done this year per FA, but not done. CP6 enhancements plan not been published, but doesnt look like work will be done before the 720s arrive, although of course when that will be no one knows taking into account the Goblin mess.

As an aside the changes due per TSR 2 May 19 are:
- hourly Norwich Camb extended to Stansted Apt
- Hertford East off peak 2TPH to 3TPH
- Southend Vic off peak 3TPH to 4TPH
- LivSt Ips hourly semifast extended to Norwich
- introduction of STAR

Will have to see what they actually get round to delivering

The current plan is to use 10 car 720's on the London to Cambridge/Stansted services initially but some will be diagrammed on the West Side long term. 5 car 720s will also be used on WA too obviously. That's from Mike Kean at GA. Trying to make too much out of the Franchise Agreement at this stage is foolish, there have been a number of amendments to the one that's currently published. Not least the leasing dates for the outgoing stock.
 

Dave1987

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People give it a few months and you will see them day in day out across the network. I didn't get the whole fanfare when the first Crossrail trains turned up TBH. A few months later you see them literally every day.
 

Bald Rick

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I didn't say they were Mr Rick. Just that no-one outside of GA knows what the service will be, so assuming the current stopping pattern is wrong as is not considering it. A year? I doubt that very much.

Oh people outside GA do know!

Stansted express services will be stopping between Liv St and Stansted; I’ll grant you that there is a (very) small chance that that might not be at stations, but they will be stopping!
 

47421

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The current plan is to use 10 car 720's on the London to Cambridge/Stansted services initially but some will be diagrammed on the West Side long term. 5 car 720s will also be used on WA too obviously. That's from Mike Kean at GA. Trying to make too much out of the Franchise Agreement at this stage is foolish, there have been a number of amendments to the one that's currently published. Not least the leasing dates for the outgoing stock.

You may think it is foolish but I think it is perfectly reasonably to measure what GA deliver against what was agreed in the FA, being as it was the basis of all the self congratulatory press releases in 2016. Have you considered whether the Deputy MD of GA might be a teeny bit biased?

On the WA route I know best there is no prospect of major changes to stopping patterns, in the peak anyway. Its a two track railway with many bottlenecks (Clapton/approach to LivSt, Stansted tunnel, approach to Cambridge etc etc) and unless you reduce stops at various busy secondary stations on Lea Valley, reducing stops on StanExp only results in them catching stoppers. The basis of the promised large increases in peak hours seating capacity under the FA is longer trains with more seats, not extra services, which infrastructure cannot accommodate. But even longer trains requires some limited infrastructure improvements, esp platform lengthening, all of which was carefully specified in FA to be done by Sept 2018. We will see what happens, but looks to me like on some services they will end up replacing 8 car 317s with 5 car 720s, with 10 doors rather than 16, resulting in longer dwell times, which they will just have to hope can be compensated by better acceleration and braking. On performance on Aventra's, anyone know if they are noticeably better on LivSt Shenfield v 315s?

And unless they can get full length Aventra's in service on schedule they have no prospect of released suppressed demand from commuters currently discouraged from travelling due to overcrowding, which means no prospect of delivering the required premium payments to DfT or returns to Abellio. I hope I am wrong - we will find out soon whether the limited timetable improvements promised under TSR2 will be delivered or not.
 

edwin_m

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Unless they have been very stupid, GA will have ensured that the promises in their franchise bid are conditional on Network Rail delivering specific things at specific times. If that hasn't happened then the promises are out of the window and GA is potentially entitled to compensation for the revenue they would have earned from the improved services that can't now be operated. It's part of the same situation that caused the latest termination of the East Coast franchise - although I'm not necessarily saying the outcome will be the same.
 

berneyarms

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I didn't say they were Mr Rick. Just that no-one outside of GA knows what the service will be, so assuming the current stopping pattern is wrong as is not considering it. A year? I doubt that very much.
I think you may be underestimating Mr Rick’s levels of internal industry knowledge! ;)
 

Bald Rick

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Unless they have been very stupid, GA will have ensured that the promises in their franchise bid are conditional on Network Rail delivering specific things at specific times. If that hasn't happened then the promises are out of the window and GA is potentially entitled to compensation for the revenue they would have earned from the improved services that can't now be operated. It's part of the same situation that caused the latest termination of the East Coast franchise - although I'm not necessarily saying the outcome will be the same.

Worth comparing the GA commitments to the NR Delivery plan. But as I understand it, GA are on the hook for delivering the platform extensions (or demonstrate how they can deliver the seat requirements without them).
 

samuelmorris

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on performance on Aventra's, anyone know if they are noticeably better on LivSt Shenfield v 315s?
Yes, considerably. You can often tell if it's a 315 vs 345 whenever there are minor delays as the 345 will make up time and a 315 will not.

Generally speaking the improvement between acceleration & dwell times on the 12 stops between Shenfield and Stratford seems to be around 2-2.5 minutes with a full clear run.
That's in 7-car guise so no length differences to consider.
 

LAX54

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Think the overhang between leading (and last) wheel sets, and front/end of train may give rise to a few platforming problems in the future !
 

trebor79

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What's in the big section with no windows? On photos of full length units I've seen, there's the same no windows section on the other half unit.
 

dk1

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I have also heard this. Think it’s just a stopgap due to the delay in the Aventuras and the problems with the Renatus refurbs though.
Yes that's what I was told. Well if one Abellio company can go the extra mile why not the other? Makes more sense on the investment.
 

D6700

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What's in the big section with no windows? On photos of full length units I've seen, there's the same no windows section on the other half unit.
I can't answer that, but I was most surprised when I saw it moving as I approached the test centre and saw the flat back end!

The other half of the unit was stabled, not being tested.

 

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