AC module section 12.1 Help

[Driver170]

*** EDIT ***

currently looking at the new AC module 2020/21


I’m having difficulty in understanding Section 12.1 B and C and also 12.2 and how to apply these rules.

I work EMU single 3 and 4 cars and multiple units 6 and 8 cars.

Is there any easy way anyone has come up with to simplify these Rules concerning ADD and line light?

thanks

 

[Saj8]

12.1 b is simple. If you get an ADD activation, no matter what formation you are driving, you Drop, Stop and contact the signaller.

12.1 c and 12.2 can be summed up as follows (assuming the pantograph on your 4 car units is not on one of the driving cars. I'm not sure if these exist, the pan on my units is on one of the middle 2 cars, depending on which way round it is):

If you lose the line light, you get one attempt to press Pan Up to see if you get it back. If it does not come back then:

If you are driving a single unit (unless the pan on a 4 car is on the rear driving car), you can coast to the next suitable location (ie station) and then contact the signaller, providing the ADD is available but not operated, and there is no unusual movement or noises from the OLE.

If you are driving multiple coupled units (or a single 4 car unit with the pan on the rear driving car) then you Drop, Stop and contact the signaller.

This assumes that each unit has a single pantograph operational at any one time.

 

[Driver170]

12.1 b is simple. If you get an ADD activation, no matter what formation you are driving, you Drop, Stop and contact the signaller.

12.1 c and 12.2 can be summed up as follows (assuming the pantograph on your 4 car units is not on one of the driving cars. I'm not sure if these exist, the pan on my units is on one of the middle 2 cars, depending on which way round it is):

If you lose the line light, you get one attempt to press Pan Up to see if you get it back. If it does not come back then:

If you are driving a single unit (unless the pan on a 4 car is on the rear driving car), you can coast to the next suitable location (ie station) and then contact the signaller, providing the ADD is available but not operated, and there is no unusual movement or noises from the OLE.

If you are driving multiple coupled units (or a single 4 car unit with the pan on the rear driving car) then you Drop, Stop and contact the signaller.

This assumes that each unit has a single pantograph operational at any one time.

Hi,

Thanks for the explanation. I would like to discuss 12.1 B first. It mentions an exception- if there is more than one pantograph. This leads me to believe we don’t have to drop the pan and stop?

 

[Saj8]

12.1 states that if any of 12.1 a, b or c happens, then you operate the pan down, stop as soon as possible and report to the signaller.

All 12.1 b states is "if the ADD on your train has operated." There is no mention of more than one pantograph in paragraph 12.1 b.

Therefore, if the ADD operates on your train, no matter how many pantographs are up, then you Drop, Stop and Report.

An ADD activation and a loss of line light are two different scenarios. The issue of multiple pantographs and coasting to the next suitable location ONLY applies to a loss of line light. With an ADD activation, you always Drop and Stop immediately.

 

[Driver170]

12.1 states that if any of 12.1 a, b or c happens, then you operate the pan down, stop as soon as possible and report to the signaller.

All 12.1 b states is "if the ADD on your train has operated." There is no mention of more than one pantograph in paragraph 12.1 b.

Therefore, if the ADD operates on your train, no matter how many pantographs are up, then you Drop, Stop and Report.

An ADD activation and a loss of line light are two different scenarios. The issue of multiple pantographs and coasting to the next suitable location ONLY applies to a loss of line light. With an ADD activation, you always Drop and Stop immediately.

Forgot to mention i’m now looking at the new rule book thats live in December 2020

 

[Saj8]

Ah, right. I'm going by the current rule book. I'll have a look at the new one.

 

[Driver170]

Ah, right. I'm going by the current rule book. I'll have a look at the new one.

My fault. I didn’t clearly state this. Let me know how you get on.

Thanks

 

[Saj8]

Ok, so in the new rule book, 12.1 b does mention more than 1 pan. So from December, if you get an ADD activation, but the line light does not go out, that means that at least one other pan on the train is still raised and drawing power. In this case, you can continue to the next suitable location.

The reason for the change is to get the train to a location where the ADD can be more easily dealt with to avoid stranding in a difficult to access location.

 

[Driver170]

Thanks. Moving on to part C - you need to stop if in multiple formation or pantograph is not on the first three coaches? why is this?

 

[Saj8]

The idea is, if the reason for the loss of line light is because the pan is / was pulling the wires down, then if that pantograph is on one of the front 3 coaches, then you would be able to see or hear the damage. Therefore, if you get a loss of line light, and you have only one pantograph on one of the front 3 coaches, and you can't see or hear any damage being done to the OLE, then its safe to assume that no damage has been done to the OLE, the reason for the loss is a power supply failure, and you can coast to the next suitable location, avoiding stranding the train without power.

If you have any pantograph more than 3 coaches from the front, then it will be likely that you would not be able to see or hear if any damage has been done to the OLE, therefore the rule in that situation is to Drop and Stop.

 

[Driver170]

Makes perfect sense now. I will continue to go over it until it sinks in

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2020 ==

Sorry, another question please regarding 12.2

you can continue if a single unit if line light has gone out but ADD hasn’t activated? Why can’t we coast with ADD activated but we can with more than one pantograph?

 

[the sniper]

Makes perfect sense now. I will continue to go over it until it sinks in

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2020 ==

Sorry, another question please regarding 12.2

you can continue if a single unit if line light has gone out but ADD hasn’t activated? Why can’t we coast with ADD activated but we can with more than one pantograph?

Presumably because if one pan is still up, the OHL is still up?

 

[Driver170]

Presumably because if one pan is still up, the OHL is still up?

Thanks, makes sense now.

 

[TheEdge]

These rules are less about the pantographs and more about preserving the overheads. It really boils down to "Does something prove the OHL is still up?", if yes, coast to a suitable location, if no, stop, drop, box.

 

[norbitonflyer]

(assuming the pantograph on your 4 car units is not on one of the driving cars.

I don't believe there are any 4-car units with pantographs on the driving cars. The only units I can find with pantographs on driving cars (other than locomotives) are the IEPs, class 373 and 395, all of which are longer than 4 cars and have two pantographs, the rearmost one of which is usually used (I understand this is to avoid damage to the other pantograph if something were to get tangled). DC units (3-car classes 505, 506) the 2-car a.c AM9s, also had pantographs on the driving cars, but the only 4-car units to have them were the AM7s and those AM9s converted from 2-car to 4-car.

 

[ainsworth74]

The only units I can find with pantographs on driving cars (other than locomotives) are the IEPs, class 373 and 395, all of which are longer than 4 cars and have two pantographs, the rearmost one of which is usually used (I understand this is to avoid damage to the other pantograph if something were to get tangled).

Actually as far as I'm aware 373s run with both pantographs raised (as their is no high voltage power feed between the locomotives) and I believe IETs are using front pantographs in normal service as well.

 

[tlionhart]

I don't believe there are any 4-car units with pantographs on the driving cars. The only units I can find with pantographs on driving cars (other than locomotives) are the IEPs, class 373 and 395, all of which are longer than 4 cars and have two pantographs, the rearmost one of which is usually used (I understand this is to avoid damage to the other pantograph if something were to get tangled). DC units (3-car classes 505, 506) the 2-car a.c AM9s, also had pantographs on the driving cars, but the only 4-car units to have them were the AM7s and those AM9s converted from 2-car to 4-car.

387 run in 4 car formation. IET 5 cars too.

 

[the sniper]

387 run in 4 car formation.

Pantograph isn't on their driving cars...

 

[tlionhart]

Pantograph isn't on their driving cars...

I mis-read the post. (I mistaken it as multiple and skimmed past the ‘driving cars’) the only other traction is the 800’s.