I’ve got on my first train this morning and used a complimentary pass, got this due to trains being cancelled and have around five. Pick it up today and wrote the date on travel on this morning. Pen wasn’t working I was in a rush and went over the date a few times. Showed the ticket to the conductor on the first leg of the journey and explained advised no problem. However on the second leg of the journey I showed the ticket and the conductor advised that he was taking this away as it had been altered I explained but the attitude was appalling so I put my side forward and he wasn’t having any. I offered to pay the fare but no interested and asked for my details which I provided. Asked him what the next steps were and he advised quite loudly probably court! I’m now worried to death.
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Accused of Fare evasion help please
- Thread starter Sneffle
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bb21
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What happened after he withdrew your ticket?
He took the ticket away and was writing something down out of sight then asked me for my address and name. Which I provided
Never ever been in this position and also I’ve have around five of these tickets which I’m going to bin. Just didn’t think it would be court? Never been on the wrong side of the law and worried about my job as well
WesternLancer
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Hi, what was the journey, what time train, where was this, what train company staff etc?.
Did the pass have some sort of serial number on it that could match to the others you have - eg in sequence - to help make the case that you would have had no need to fraudulently alter one (as you have several more to use anyway)
WesternLancer
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Def do not bin the others now, they may be useful in supporting case that you have not acted fraudulently in this case. Hold on to the stuff.
Also make yourself some decent clear notes about exactly what happened, when, where and who said what and what they said (in the case of both checks) ie 'contemporaneous notes', as it may be some time before you hear from the railway company about this - so get it down clearly now to help you remember (as it is common to be able to give your side of the story if they take it further).
Were you given any paperwork etc by the staff member concerned? if so keep it safe (maybe also scan it, anonymise it and post it up here which will help others give you good advice).
The Journey was DODWORTH to Barnsley at 06.52 checked the same ticket no issues. Then Barnsley to Leeds 07.06 checked ticket and he wasn’t having it. Northern Rail is the company and I’ve had these tickets from November and decided to start using them as I don’t do this commute that often now with working at home. Got the tickets and binned the letters thinking I would use them
WesternLancer
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OK - so Northern Trains. Probably others with knowledge will post soon explaining what is likely to happen next.
My guess is official letter from Northern asking for your side of the story and maybe then also a letter telling you a sum you can pay to prevent that going to court or whatever. In court they would have to show the ticket you had WAS fraudulently filled in - they might not be too keen on that. When you get letters about this post them here (take out your personal details) so people can advice on best options etc, and indeed what to say to them in response.
Hopefully you gave them accurate name and address so that you will get these letters (as if not and you do not respond to them when they come it is far more likely this will get escalated to court without you knowing it and then more hassle to sort it out.
Make copies of the other vouchers you have now, but I would use the remaining vouchers clearly filled in with a decent working biro (in fact when you have filled them in take photo as a copy as that might show how the one they confiscated looked like the others you have or will have filled in and used. At the end of the day/journey of using the others, keep them on leaving the station as useful evidence ref all this (ie do not hand them in at the barrier when the trip completed for example)
Hope this helps for now, feel free to post any more questions.
Good luck with this.
Thanks for the replies , just want it out of the way as it’s doing my stress levels no good. I used a couple of these early last year and never had an issue disposing of them as soon as my journey ended. I’ll write down what the events were and what was said but I’m sure it’ll make no difference at all it’s going to hurt the pocket but I suppose I’ll take the car in future. Just don’t want to be stood at court for something like this. Thanks all. I did ring the customer enquiries and made them aware and they advised that he should have said that and I would get a fine and if I didn’t pay it would be escalated ?
WesternLancer
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That's likely to be a 'Penalty Fare' they are talking about when you rang I would think (Think fines can only be issued by court) - BUT the ticket has got to go through some sort of process whereby someone looks at it and says 'has this voucher been fraudulently filled in, and if we allege that, and take it all the way to court of the passenger disputes it, will we win?'.
Basically, try not to stress over it, monitor replies on here from people with more specialist knowledge than me. Await formal correspondence from Northern ref this (if you ever get it) and re-post here for more advice etc as required (make a note of the thread URL to help you find it if some times passes before you need to do that etc.
Thank you I’ve just done what you’ve said and also made a step by step account of the most stressful day of my life! Yes you are right the lady advised a fixed penalty and half of me thinks pay it other half thinks on principle I should take it all the way barrister and lot for his attitude was a disgrace but he’s a job to do. What will be will be but once again many thanks
WesternLancer
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OK - if a Penalty Fare is issued (it probably will be, they would only consider court from their side if you refuse to pay and they think they have a good case to take it further presumably) and you get the letter for that with the demand, people can give advise here (it may be that a good option would be to pay it BUT then appeal it - you can appeal them more than once IIRC and from threads here it is often the case that you need to appeal again)
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/l...nalty-faqs/822-penalties-appeals-and-payments
AND you can also take up the staff attitude with customer services as a complaint seperatly. You can also pursue the matter to the Rail Ombudsman with a view to being refunded the Penalty Fare. All this would probably be less stressful / hassle than court. Though if you know a good solicitor, or get free legal advice through your trade union etc you might want to actively consider the court option (I suspect there is some small print on the voucher things about 'clearly filling them in' so a debate in court about what is 'clear' might be risky!).
But that's for alter stage really - see what happens next.
People on here will advise on how to reply to their letters and how to appeal / draft appeal letters etc
Fawkes Cat
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Let's look at something you mentioned at the beginning - impact on your job. It would help if you could tell us what you do (in broad terms - we don't need to know your job title or who you work for).
Even without knowing that, I will say that unless this matter ends up in court, there should be no impact on your job. Even if you go to court, if you are cleared there's no problem. It's only if you go to court there will be any issue. A very few jobs (mainly those where you handle or can divert money) demand that people doing them have no criminal convictions at all. A rather wider group want to know about criminal convictions - but won't necessarily sack you for one. Being convicted of dodging a train fare is generally seen as an error of judgement - and everyone makes those from time to time. If you hid a conviction though, that might make things worse - hiding a conviction looks dishonest of itself and could get you into trouble with an employer.
I hope this puts your mind at rest. For extra reassurance, is there anyone you can talk to at work in confidence? If you have a trade union then a union rep might be a good person to choose. If your job is professionally regulated (like medical professions are) have a look at the regulator's website - that may also explain what you might face.
And if - as you have told us - this is just a bit of a muddle because you used a worn-out pen, it is most likely that everything will be sorted out. So try not to worry!
Even without knowing that, I will say that unless this matter ends up in court, there should be no impact on your job. Even if you go to court, if you are cleared there's no problem. It's only if you go to court there will be any issue. A very few jobs (mainly those where you handle or can divert money) demand that people doing them have no criminal convictions at all. A rather wider group want to know about criminal convictions - but won't necessarily sack you for one. Being convicted of dodging a train fare is generally seen as an error of judgement - and everyone makes those from time to time. If you hid a conviction though, that might make things worse - hiding a conviction looks dishonest of itself and could get you into trouble with an employer.
I hope this puts your mind at rest. For extra reassurance, is there anyone you can talk to at work in confidence? If you have a trade union then a union rep might be a good person to choose. If your job is professionally regulated (like medical professions are) have a look at the regulator's website - that may also explain what you might face.
And if - as you have told us - this is just a bit of a muddle because you used a worn-out pen, it is most likely that everything will be sorted out. So try not to worry!
Thank you ever so much, to be honest I worry so much about doing the right things and blow all sorts out of proportion. To look at me 6 ft 2 a bit mad looking you’ll think Jesus but to be honest I’m a soft fool. Just ran out and used the wrong pen, as said first conductor looked at it and said thanks mate. 2nd one well I darent say anymore. I probably just look on the dark side thinking I’ll probably get a sentence although I’ve never been in trouble ever and I’m 47. Then I just stress about anything like this! I’ll be taking car in future so that’ll be good for blood pressure I’m just a bit mental I think. I really apprecaite your response. I just keep thinking I never did it on purpose I was rushing about but they won’t care about this as they’ve a job to do. Like a said I’ll probably pay any fixes penalty but then I think legal team? Thanks once agsin
WesternLancer
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Come back here and let us know how it develops / how you get on. Plenty of free advice about.
PS - watch out for traffic offences if you take to the car! Can't really advise on them!
Oh yes, need the money to save up for a barrister because the more and more I think about it the more and more I’m angry. Probably be about 500.00 penalty so probably I’ll end up paying if that’s an option. Thank you for all your advice.
Western Sunset
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Sneffle, please don't overthink things.
Thank you I do tend to do this and waste energy. I really appreciate your reply. I wish I was built different and could let things go. I’ll keep you posted if interested.
Western Sunset
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I overthink things too.....
gray1404
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These vouchers are not easy to fill in at all. This is the problem. I have had issues filling one out and had to write over the date twice.
WesternLancer
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If you get letter asking for penalty fare it's twice the single fare for the journey or £20 whatever is the highest. So if you were reported under the penalty fare option that's what you are looking at (Dodworth-Leeds £10.10 single so penalty fare £20.20). So you need to wait and see what they request. You then of course have the ability to appeal that sum, which we will help you do.
Put it to the back of your mind for now if you can and enjoy the weekend!
A Penalty Fare is only issued on the day and at the time of the irregular travel. If it has not been issued by now, it is no longer an option.
Yes didn’t receive anything. I did offer to pay but that offer Wasn’t accepted so just worried it’ll go straight to court and even more worried that an offer of payment plus admin costs etc may be refused as well. Never ever been in this position before and still worried sick. I always look on the down side
Agree 110%. They are awful things to write on regardless of the pen you use, several times i've made a simple ticket look like it has been altered and been concerned to use it. Luckily i am familiar with "the system" so i don't have the same concerns as many less familiar people but it is still a concern.
some bloke
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Always happy to help where i can. When the letter arrives we will see what it says. Sadly as others have said, it will not be a penalty fare as this isn't how they are issued so it is likely to be a more serious (and more expensive) ordeal.
WesternLancer
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Or would it just be left with no further action if the staff it was passed to (by the on train person who was unhappy about it) saw the form, knew they were hard to complete easily and just decided to drop the matter on the basis that there was no real case to answer?
PS - I like the idea of rocking up at the magistrates court in front of everyone with the pen and the Northern rep being asked (I like to think by the magistrate) to fill it in and the end results compared!
Thanks I’ll keep you posted
Thanks I thought as much but don’t know what the penalty will be probably hundreds and to be honest it’s eating away at me so I’d pay anything just to get this sorted and to move on. Never got any paperwork off the bloke, never signed anything and offered to pay but as said they’ll do what they need to do and I’ll just learn from it. Just been reading a few scenarios and that doesn’t help I suppose. Just don’t want to mess about offering a settlement just for it to be dismissed. I can’t cope and all over a pen that didn’t write on a shiny card. Which the first conductor on the first train looked and said that’s fine mate!
Thanks for your support I’m going through phases of fighting then just doing what needs to be done. Every minute I’m thinking about it and feeling like a big girls blouse.
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