act appropriately.Out of date railcard

[HollyDevon]

I would be very grateful for advice.
My daughter is a student and travelled on a railcard discounted ticket on 11/3/2018 from Exeter to Bristol, unaware that her railcard had expired 2 weeks previously. she
The ticket inspector offered her the chance to buy a new ticket but she declined as she didn't understand how serious it was.
She has chronic health problems and also anxiety/depression mental health issues for which she is treated medically. When stressed her anxiety takes over and she becomes upset and irrational.
She then doesn't act appropriately.
she has now had a letter from til stating there is sufficient evidence to warrant prosecution and they are considering whether to issue a summons.
The letter asks for mitigating circumstances. Please can you advise how best to proceed? thanks in advance

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum.

I’d write a polite, concise letter explaining that you are sorry for what has happened, didn’t realise how serious it was and have learned from this.

Say that you are keen to settle the matter before reaching court and would be prepared to pay the difference in fare plus the company’s administrative costs to deal with this matter.

 

[HollyDevon]

Thank you very much.

Is it best for them to come back with an admin fee, if they will agree to this. Or should she send a cheque with the fare difference and admin fee with her letter? Do you think they will be likely to accept this?

Welcome to the forum.

I’d write a polite, concise letter explaining that you are sorry for what has happened, didn’t realise how serious it was and have learned from this.

Say that you are keen to settle the matter before reaching court and would be prepared to pay the difference in fare plus the company’s administrative costs to deal with this matter.

hank you

 

[HollyDevon]

Thank you. Should we see if they offer an admin fee amount or send a chq to cover it with the mitigation letter pls?
Do you think they will be likely to accept this?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thank you. Should we see if they offer an admin fee amount or send a chq to cover it with the mitigation letter pls?
Do you think they will be likely to accept this?

Don't send a cheque yet - wait for their response. For a first 'offence' they may (though they're not obliged to) offer a settlement. You would then make sure to pay this in full ASAP.

 

[Hadders]

I would not suggest an admin fee at this stage. Let them come back to you but I would expect it to be around £100.

 

[HollyDevon]

Please Can you advise her as to whether she should mention her health/mental health or would this sound like an excuse?

 

[6Gman]

Please Can you advise her as to whether she should mention her health/mental health or would this sound like an excuse?

Refer to it if it is relevant. But you may well be expected to substantiate such a reference.

 

[Hadders]

Please Can you advise her as to whether she should mention her health/mental health or would this sound like an excuse?

Personally I wouldn’t. Keep it simple at this stage.

 

[HollyDevon]

Thank you both. That’s really helpful. Fingers crossed they may accept a settlement as she hadn’t done it deliberately

 

[furlong]

I would only suggest mentioning anything health related if you know you'll be able to back it up with evidence from her doctor at a later stage if necessary.

Do you know which train company this is? Crosscountry or GWR? If it's GWR you should read here. In summary, that company treats prosecution as a last resort after other methods of settling the matter fail.

 

[HollyDevon]

I would only suggest mentioning anything health related if you know you'll be able to back it up with evidence from her doctor at a later stage if necessary.

Do you know which train company this is? Crosscountry or GWR? If it's GWR you should read here. In summary, that company treats prosecution as a last resort after other methods of settling the matter fail.

Unfortunately it is Crosscountry

 

[najaB]

Unfortunately it is Crosscountry

It isn't unknown for posters to reach a settlement with CrossCountry.

 

[Hadders]

It isn't unknown for posters to reach a settlement with CrossCountry.

I agree. Most train companies would rather avoid prosecution for first time issues.

Please do let us know how you get on.

 

[Clip]

I would only suggest mentioning anything health related if you know you'll be able to back it up with evidence from her doctor at a later stage if necessary.

Do you know which train company this is? Crosscountry or GWR? If it's GWR you should read here. In summary, that company treats prosecution as a last resort after other methods of settling the matter fail.

With respect the health related issue has nothing to do with an out of date railcard for which the offence here is total.

 

[HollyDevon]

With respect the health related issue has nothing to do with an out of date railcard for which the offence here is total.

No I totally agree. However it did affect her reaction when asked to buy another ticket as she got very anxious and stressed rather than think the situation through appropriately and just pay for a new ticket. Her poor health also means she can’t think things through clearly as her cognitive function is much reduced.

 

[Clip]

No I totally agree. However it did affect her reaction when asked to buy another ticket as she got very anxious and stressed rather than think the situation through appropriately and just pay for a new ticket. Her poor health also means she can’t think things through clearly as her cognitive function is much reduced.

Thats fine and i totally understand where that comes from due to dealing with poor mental health myself however the offence is still absolute whether she refused a new ticket or not and i dont think mentioning it will help as the outcome will still be the same imo in that a settlement at a price will be just that

 

[najaB]

i dont think mentioning it will help as the outcome will still be the same imo in that a settlement at a price will be just that

I think that briefly mentioning it in explanation might be helpful as long as it isn't used as an excuse.

 

[Clip]

I think that briefly mentioning it in explanation might be helpful as long as it isn't used as an excuse.

Well it wasn't a health issue that stopped the railcard from being renewed?

 

[najaB]

Well it wasn't a health issue that stopped the railcard from being renewed?

No, it wasn't. As I said, it might help to mention it in explaining the daughter's actions on the day i.e. refusing to pay for a new ticket. It won't change the fact that the railcard was out of date but they may agree to settle for the cost of a new ticket (plus costs).

 

[Clip]

They may well do who knows but i wouldnt mention it because ive seen it too many times over the years where people just refuse a new ticket/pf as they simply dont understand the severity of what is occuring.

 

[HollyDevon]

Thank you all for your advice.
She has written a letter and asked if it is possible to reach a settlement.
She has admitted it was a genuine mistake not to have realised her railcard was out of date, and that she hadnt realised the seriousness.
Hopefully they will agree. She has mentioned that she suffers serious health and mental health issues and is worried that going to court would make them worse, but not used it as an excuse.
It seems people get let off much more serious criminal offences when you watch police programmes. This is a genuine mistake and a £5 ticket difference. She had a ticket and was definitely not trying to avoid payment.
Fingers crossed. I will let you know the outcome.

 

[HollyDevon]

It says they can take 28 days for them to reply. Hopefully it won’t take that long.

 

[tiptoptaff]

It says they can take 28 days for them to reply. Hopefully it won’t take that long.

Wouldn't be overly surprised if it actually takes longer.

 

[HollyDevon]

Just to say we had a letter yesterday saying a sum of £99.50 would be acceptable.
I just want to say thank you to everyone who has been so helpful. It is very much appreciated.

 

[najaB]

Just to say we had a letter yesterday saying a sum of £99.50 would be acceptable.

That sounds about right - roughly £50 for the punative/compensatory element and the rest for costs.

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has been so helpful. It is very much appreciated.

I'm glad you achieved a satisfactory outcome.

 

[HollyDevon]

Thank you

 

[furlong]

That sounds about right - roughly £50 for the punative/compensatory element and the rest for costs.

There should be no punitive element whatsoever in a settlement - unless you've seen evidence of this happening, please don't suggest a TOC is misbehaving (Or if you have evidence, take it up with the authorities. A rail franchisee can impose a Penalty Fare under strict conditions - other penalties are for the courts to impose.)

 

[najaB]

There should be no punitive element whatsoever in a settlement - unless you've seen evidence of this happening, please don't suggest a TOC is misbehaving

Hence why I said 'punative/compensatory'. When a TOC suggests a settlement amount it's never just for the direct costs, there is always an element of "encourament to not repeat the behaviour".

Since they are private settlements there is little oversight of what goes into the calculation.

 

[furlong]

Only the direct costs - a payment that puts the TOC back into the same position as it would have been in had the offence not been committed - the inclusion of any punitive element could cause problems for the TOC if pursued. If the TOC wants a punitive element it should just use a Penalty Fare which was created for this purpose (and the use of which was vastly simplified recently).