No you dont.
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Adult Caught on Child Ticket going through Barrier
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No you dont.
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Flamingo
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Then what will they accept??
Driving Liscences and Pass hologrammed ID's. I would guess its due to 18 year olds using a passport from when they are 12 and stuff, it could be anyone really.
rant
Dont get me started on this 'prood of age' and 'think 25' stuff though. If it was any other situation people would be up in arms about it. Imagine if we asked all black people for 'proof of citizenship' nobody would tolerate it (apart from mr griffin) It goes against out concept of innocent until proven guilty as we are presuming people are breaking the law unless they prove otherwise
/rant
They are phasing it in from 2013 to 2015.
It doesn't mean that 16-18 year olds can't work full time, but they must also be in training towards some qualification (unless they have got suitable qualifications already).
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/25/notes/division/5/1/1/1
Does anyone know if you can get a season ticket photocard on somebody else's behalf (with their id)?
I find the whole ID inconsistent, I was in an Asda buying a few bottles, had no I.D, got asked, no sale. My younger brother then went in to the same self service till with same attendant and didnt get asked. I am 4 years older, but look about 10 years old. If they're going to operate such a system they need to train there staff on judging ages on sight!
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It is all still a provisional thing, nothing confirmed, Posts made by SWT_USER implies that it is already in place.
I can also tell you many companys such as McDonalds even put there staff who do not have A levels through an apprenticeship in Hospitality i believe it is. So this will just mean more companies following McDonalds example. McDs pay there staff the min wage, and on completion of their training (12 months i believe) they are awarded the apprentice qualification. Info on such scheme is available here http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/people/join-the-team/apprentice/apprentice.shtml
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It's not possible to correctly judge ages all of the time - which is why they ask for ids just to make sure.
In the US, I have seen places where everybody is asked for id - even if they are obviously 40+.
As far as I can see it is been confirmed, the law has been passed, and it will happen by 2013/2015.
Ok my source i found said it was only provisonal, however may of been out of my date, In addition to my comment about McDs putting staff without A Levels through Apprenticeship qualifications, i've now discovered Asda and Tesco operate similar schemes, whilst paying there staff the normal wages and not the traditional low apprentice amounts
Flamingo
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Some states the law is alcohol can only be sold on production of ID. Initially I was quite flattered when I was being asked for ID (until my mate who lived there put me right!)
Wow, how can they deny a perfectly valid national / international proof of age
Businesses are not (with a few exceptions) obliged to sell anything to anyone. I agree it's ridiculous though.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
There is a clear distinction between the unlawful sale of alcohol to a person under age, and the sale of a reduced rate Rail ticket to a person over the age threshold.
The clue is in the word 'unlawful'.
The pub's staff have no duty to determine a customer's age at all. But they are required to observe the 2003 Licensing Act (Eng. & Wales), in which Section 146 is very clear:-
Selling alcohol to an under 18 is an Offence. Not buying it.
Correct. Though in the case of pubs, their existence is predicated on the sale of alcohol, so they are likely to be choosing to sell it, if they can, and within the Law.
It is the Licence holder who would be committing the offence, there is NOT a corresponding offence that is committed by the young person. Clearly, the pub industry is exposed to severe penalties, so they will instruct staff to avoid doing so, and will have a policy in place to reduce the risk as far as practically possible.
It is therefore purely a commercial decision by the Licence Holder and Premises Operator to introduce schemes and tests, all of which will be biased towards being within the law - it is wise to risk occassionally refusing to sell to someone over the age limit than to sell to someone who is under the limit.
There is absolutely no suggestion of 'guilt' by a person attempting to buy alcohol and who is refused on these grounds (unless of course they did commit some other offence such as deception or fraud) and no suggestion that they are 'breaking the law'.
Contrast this with the Railways; the TOC is not committing an offence by selling and/or accepting a child ticket to a person who is over age; it is the passenger who is likely to be at fault.
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I'm sure there is some consumer law that doesn't allow a business to sell you something at a different price to the advertised one unless it is a clear mistake in pricing. For example, a laptop that should be priced as £399 being advertised at £349 should be sold at £349 or not sold at all as £349 for a laptop is a believable price. However, if the error was showing the price at £3.99 then the seller could say that the price should be £399.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
A price is an invitation to tender, not a contract so I would imagine that they are allowed to charge whatever they like regardless of what is on the label.
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AlterEgo
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ralphchadkirk
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Do you perhaps mean "invititation to treat"? IANAL.
One of the two. I'm tired!
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Urban myth. The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 covers this kind of thing. The penalties for a trader advertising goods at a misleading price that "causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise" are the usual ones of a fine or imprisonment. There is no requirement for them to honour the price, however realistic it may appear.
I think 16/17 year olds travelling on child tickets is very common, especially if it is a case of being born in Sept/Oct and all the rest of your peer group are travelling on child tickets for the rest of the year.
My school gave us the option of a free PASS hologrammed CitizenCard that they would apply for us and therefore no chance of junk mail etc, in partnership with the local bus company (adult age - 14 so hard to see much advantage)
I was actually quite small for my age but was still stopped at the barriers having reached my destination when 15 and travelling on a child ticket. I didn't have any ID but the gate staff let me through when I gave my DOB. Alot of my friends would have a preprepared DOB (adding the number of years required was the easiest way) for such a situation. Obviously it was many years ago but at the time I remember thinking that it was a bit of a sting the ticket office selling you a child ticket without asking for ID, then potentially being accosted and having to buy another full adult ticket when you reached your destination if you didnt have any.
My school gave us the option of a free PASS hologrammed CitizenCard that they would apply for us and therefore no chance of junk mail etc, in partnership with the local bus company (adult age - 14 so hard to see much advantage)
I was actually quite small for my age but was still stopped at the barriers having reached my destination when 15 and travelling on a child ticket. I didn't have any ID but the gate staff let me through when I gave my DOB. Alot of my friends would have a preprepared DOB (adding the number of years required was the easiest way) for such a situation. Obviously it was many years ago but at the time I remember thinking that it was a bit of a sting the ticket office selling you a child ticket without asking for ID, then potentially being accosted and having to buy another full adult ticket when you reached your destination if you didnt have any.
Per snail, this is not correct; it may be a criminal offence for which they could be prosecuted though. However, it could come up at a restaurant; if a meal was advertised at £20 the restaurant cannot then charge £25 for it when the bill comes. This is because the contract is formed when you order the food — your order is an offer to purchase and the waiter accepts the offer (or declines it, if they've run out etc.). In the case of a retail shop, when you go to the till and place your items on the counter, you are making an offer to purchase the items, which the shop is free to decline.
Now taking the restaurant example further, if a steak was priced as £1 in error on the menu when it should have been £30, then the restaurant might be able to argue that the contract is void for mistake, and given that this would be discovered after the steak has been eaten, rescission would not be possible, so they might recover a quantum meruit (reasonable value) for the food eaten. Possibly.
Now I'll stop stealing DaveNewcastle's thunder, and stop going off-topic
Section 149?
I think section 146 makes an offence comitted by the member of staff who sells it, the license holder commits an offence of knowingly allowing it. (There are some defences, such as if they provide a good fake id).
Much of the support behind the schemes come from the unions - it is the shop staff who are most at risk of accidentally committing an offence or even being pressured into it.
There was a topic?
If the menu has the letters E, O&E printed i believe this covers that contractually.
A quote (which is what a menu is, kind of) if contains the letters E, O&E covers the restaurant or business to correct errors in pricing,
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
You are quite correct!
I'm pleased to be corrected.
This is an offence attracting a lower fine, not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale
I guess you're thinking of E&OE or their full expansion to 'Errors and Omissions Excepted'
yes thats it!
ChrisCooper
Established Member
I know young people tend to be seen as the worst for it, but I often think the only reason older people aren't as bad is because at that age you don't want people to think you are older than you are. Actually 9 times out of 10 if someone is offered an OAP/over 50s etc price when they are younger (even just younger) they will come out with "I'm not that old, I'm only XX" before they even realise they are just turning down a discount! I think the morality and honesty doesn't come into it. Of cource it's funny with young people that on these occasions they want to look younger, wheras most of the time they want to look older.
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