hairyhandedfool
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Apr 2008
- Messages
- 8,837
Note: You can download the latest version of the Advance Fare FAQs extracted from The Manual in the Fares Guide - it's a PDF attachment at the bottom of this post. - yorkie
The Manual (FRPP) now has a section called Advance Fare FAQs (under ticket Validities). I thought I would share the often asked ones on here for the benefit of everyone, others are basically acknowledged as the case anyway and have been edited out. It was added on 30/06/2011.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advance fares FAQS - From the Manual (FRPP)
....
Q4. Can a customer buy two advance which join together and form one journey? e.g. ticket for A-B plus ticket for B-C, to travel throughout journey A-C?
A. Yes, provided the train calls at B.
Note 1. Where a passenger buys multiple tickets in this way, if they then have to change their booking, it will also cost them multiple amounts of £10 fee.
Note 2. Where multiple train companies are used A-B and B-C with a change of train and ticket at B, it is still classed as a through journey in the event of delays provided they were booked in accordance with the minimum connectiion times for the station. For example, a passenger travelling Cambridge-Peterborough 'XC only' and Peterbourgh-Leeds 'EC only' is allowed to take the next East Coast service in the event of delay on the Cross Country service causing the connection to be missed.
....
Q6. Are refunds or changes allowed with these tickets?
A. Once booked the ticket is non-refundable. Passengers will be entitled to refund in the event of a delay or cancellation as per condition 25(A), 42 and 43 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.
Upto the departure of the first reserved train (not "suggested" connecting services) the ticket may be changed onto any available service. The excess is upto the next available ticket, walk-up or advance purchase, plus a £10 fee per single ticket. If a change is required after the departure of the first reserved train, the ticket has no further value and a new ticket must be purchased.
Q7 If passengers are found to be travelling not on their booked train (but on the correct day), what fare will they be require to buy on the train?
A. Train Companies policies are as follows
[A table here shows all train companies are the full Anytime fare except First Hull Trains, Scotrail, Southern and Virgin Trains who require the fare available immediately before travel.]
....
Q9. Can someone buy an Advance ticket, then excess it to an "Any Permitted" ticket and then use it on another operator's train service?
A. No, they must stick with the operator shown on the original ticket.
....
Q12. A passenger has an Advance ticket but would like to change their seat allocation. Are they able to do this at the station in advance?
A. Yes, but this counts as a change as it takes retail time and therefore incurs a £10 fee per single ticket (some TOCs e.g. Virgin Trains may waive this and will inform [staff]). Seat preferences should be detailed when making the booking, not later. The 'Conditions' show that the ticket is only valid in the seat shown and this is the message to get across. however, tell [the passenger] that onboard staff may allow them to move if space allows.
....
Q15. A passenger holds a standard advance ticket from station A to station B. but no return ticket. Can they upgrade it to a Super Off-Peak Return by paying the difference plus a £10 fee?
A. Yes - Maximum flexibilty for the ticket holder before the train departs.
Q16. A passenger holds a standard advance ticket from station A to station B and one for the return B to A. They miss the outward train from station A and so the outward portion is now invalid. As these tickets can upgrade to any other walk up fare, can we upgrade the (still valid) B to A advance single to a Super Off-Peak ticket from A to B?
A. Yes, - Maximum flexibility before the train departs.
In this case it is permissible to upgrade the return hourney to become the return leg of the Off-Peak ticket. That way the customer atleast gets some credit for the return journey. Only one lot of £10 needs to be paid. If done in advance of the outward travel, the passenger would have to pay two lots of £10 fees, but they would also be getting credit for both legs of the journey.
....
Q22. Can a passenger travel on any other service than the one on which they are reserved, without changing the booking?
A. the following principles apply.
1) Start of the Journey. It is the passenger responsibility to turn up at the start of the journey in time for the departure of the first train. If they miss it due to parking problems, taxis not turning up, etc, they must buy a new ticket,
2) Once the journey has begun. If the passenger is delayed and the train company or it's partners [are] at fault, which should be check by [staff] control office, change to a train of the same company is allowed to get them to their destination with the least delay. This is irrespective of the combination of rail tickets held. Examples are:
Included: are passsengers on valid:
Through domestic or international tickets. e.g. Brighton-Scarborough route TOC X & connections;
Through rail and partner tickets for which there is a through bus, tube, ferry or metro fare, e.g. Zone U12-Leeds, Wisbeach coach-York, Ryde Pier-Hull, etc;
Combination of rail only tickets.
e.g. Rail season ticket Skipton-Leeds and Advance Leeds-Peterborough, or adjoining advance fares;
Combination of rail and partner tickets.
e.g. Brighton-Zone U12 plus advance London-Manchester, or;
e.g. Advance ticket Bristol-Paddington plus tube single ticket, plus advance ticket Kings Cross to Hull;
All Zones Travelcards, PTE-products (where rail is included) plus advance fares, etc;
Combination of Eurostar tickets into the UK and then either advance tickets from London terminals or "London Intnl CIV" or Lndon Eurostar CIV;
Not included for the avoidance of doubt, are:
Non train company travel on separate tickets, e.g. tickets that begin on bus-only, tube-only, ferry-only or metro-only tickets. (this includes "PlusBus", which is a local day-rover bus ticket not compatible with a medium/long distance advance single ticket, so are kept as separate tickets), or;
Tickets that cannot be read on-train e.g. smartcards (allowable where electronically checked, verified and advance ticket endorsed in travel centres).
Please note that there is no change to :
a) Any other rules e.g. trains stopping where tickets join together (NRCoC 19), nor;
b) The need to verify that a train has been delayed on route and ticket endorsed, nor;
c) Any other passenger entitlements as defined by the NRCoC or CIV conditions, nor;
d) General ATOC disruption guidance
e) [Staff] discretion in extreme circumstances.
....
Q23. Can a passenger travel on a TOC X train if they are booked on another TOC's advance dedicated ticket?
A. No. Dedicated TOC tickets (="TOC X only") do exactly what gthey say on the ticket. However, during times of disruption, retail and on-train staff should use their discretion, as advised by their control offiice.
Q24. Can a passenger travel on a TOC X train if they are booked on another TOCs Advance ticket e.g. "TOC Y & connections"?
A. As a connecting TOC into the main TOC shown in the routeing on the ticket - Yes.
As a replacement of the main TOC shown on the ticket - No. (However, during times of disruption, retail and on-train staff should use their discretion, as advised by their control office.
Please note that "TOC & connections" tickets are not the same a s'dedicated' tickets and should be treated differently. TOC & connections simply meas the majority of the journey should be made on the TOC shown and local connections. Unfortunately not all journey planners understand the meaning of "the majority of", and sometimes the 'majority' might be a relatiively small portion of the journey. But it works both ways as all TOCs can be affected and it all balances out.....
Q25. Can passengers on an advance ticket travel on earlier connecting trains?
A. Yes if it is non-reservable, no if it is reservable.
An exception that benefits customers: Where East Coast is a connecting TOC from Stevenage via London and vice versa e.g "AP London Reading" or "VWC & connections", East Coast waives the need for travel on the exact East Coast train booked on this relatively short journey Stevenage-Kings Cross, even though retail systems will force a reservation to be made.
....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope this clears up many questions in regard to these tickets (regardless of who was 'right' or not)
The Manual (FRPP) now has a section called Advance Fare FAQs (under ticket Validities). I thought I would share the often asked ones on here for the benefit of everyone, others are basically acknowledged as the case anyway and have been edited out. It was added on 30/06/2011.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advance fares FAQS - From the Manual (FRPP)
....
Q4. Can a customer buy two advance which join together and form one journey? e.g. ticket for A-B plus ticket for B-C, to travel throughout journey A-C?
A. Yes, provided the train calls at B.
Note 1. Where a passenger buys multiple tickets in this way, if they then have to change their booking, it will also cost them multiple amounts of £10 fee.
Note 2. Where multiple train companies are used A-B and B-C with a change of train and ticket at B, it is still classed as a through journey in the event of delays provided they were booked in accordance with the minimum connectiion times for the station. For example, a passenger travelling Cambridge-Peterborough 'XC only' and Peterbourgh-Leeds 'EC only' is allowed to take the next East Coast service in the event of delay on the Cross Country service causing the connection to be missed.
....
Q6. Are refunds or changes allowed with these tickets?
A. Once booked the ticket is non-refundable. Passengers will be entitled to refund in the event of a delay or cancellation as per condition 25(A), 42 and 43 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.
Upto the departure of the first reserved train (not "suggested" connecting services) the ticket may be changed onto any available service. The excess is upto the next available ticket, walk-up or advance purchase, plus a £10 fee per single ticket. If a change is required after the departure of the first reserved train, the ticket has no further value and a new ticket must be purchased.
Q7 If passengers are found to be travelling not on their booked train (but on the correct day), what fare will they be require to buy on the train?
A. Train Companies policies are as follows
[A table here shows all train companies are the full Anytime fare except First Hull Trains, Scotrail, Southern and Virgin Trains who require the fare available immediately before travel.]
....
Q9. Can someone buy an Advance ticket, then excess it to an "Any Permitted" ticket and then use it on another operator's train service?
A. No, they must stick with the operator shown on the original ticket.
....
Q12. A passenger has an Advance ticket but would like to change their seat allocation. Are they able to do this at the station in advance?
A. Yes, but this counts as a change as it takes retail time and therefore incurs a £10 fee per single ticket (some TOCs e.g. Virgin Trains may waive this and will inform [staff]). Seat preferences should be detailed when making the booking, not later. The 'Conditions' show that the ticket is only valid in the seat shown and this is the message to get across. however, tell [the passenger] that onboard staff may allow them to move if space allows.
....
Q15. A passenger holds a standard advance ticket from station A to station B. but no return ticket. Can they upgrade it to a Super Off-Peak Return by paying the difference plus a £10 fee?
A. Yes - Maximum flexibilty for the ticket holder before the train departs.
Q16. A passenger holds a standard advance ticket from station A to station B and one for the return B to A. They miss the outward train from station A and so the outward portion is now invalid. As these tickets can upgrade to any other walk up fare, can we upgrade the (still valid) B to A advance single to a Super Off-Peak ticket from A to B?
A. Yes, - Maximum flexibility before the train departs.
In this case it is permissible to upgrade the return hourney to become the return leg of the Off-Peak ticket. That way the customer atleast gets some credit for the return journey. Only one lot of £10 needs to be paid. If done in advance of the outward travel, the passenger would have to pay two lots of £10 fees, but they would also be getting credit for both legs of the journey.
....
Q22. Can a passenger travel on any other service than the one on which they are reserved, without changing the booking?
A. the following principles apply.
1) Start of the Journey. It is the passenger responsibility to turn up at the start of the journey in time for the departure of the first train. If they miss it due to parking problems, taxis not turning up, etc, they must buy a new ticket,
2) Once the journey has begun. If the passenger is delayed and the train company or it's partners [are] at fault, which should be check by [staff] control office, change to a train of the same company is allowed to get them to their destination with the least delay. This is irrespective of the combination of rail tickets held. Examples are:
Included: are passsengers on valid:
Through domestic or international tickets. e.g. Brighton-Scarborough route TOC X & connections;
Through rail and partner tickets for which there is a through bus, tube, ferry or metro fare, e.g. Zone U12-Leeds, Wisbeach coach-York, Ryde Pier-Hull, etc;
Combination of rail only tickets.
e.g. Rail season ticket Skipton-Leeds and Advance Leeds-Peterborough, or adjoining advance fares;
Combination of rail and partner tickets.
e.g. Brighton-Zone U12 plus advance London-Manchester, or;
e.g. Advance ticket Bristol-Paddington plus tube single ticket, plus advance ticket Kings Cross to Hull;
All Zones Travelcards, PTE-products (where rail is included) plus advance fares, etc;
Combination of Eurostar tickets into the UK and then either advance tickets from London terminals or "London Intnl CIV" or Lndon Eurostar CIV;
Not included for the avoidance of doubt, are:
Non train company travel on separate tickets, e.g. tickets that begin on bus-only, tube-only, ferry-only or metro-only tickets. (this includes "PlusBus", which is a local day-rover bus ticket not compatible with a medium/long distance advance single ticket, so are kept as separate tickets), or;
Tickets that cannot be read on-train e.g. smartcards (allowable where electronically checked, verified and advance ticket endorsed in travel centres).
Please note that there is no change to :
a) Any other rules e.g. trains stopping where tickets join together (NRCoC 19), nor;
b) The need to verify that a train has been delayed on route and ticket endorsed, nor;
c) Any other passenger entitlements as defined by the NRCoC or CIV conditions, nor;
d) General ATOC disruption guidance
e) [Staff] discretion in extreme circumstances.
....
Q23. Can a passenger travel on a TOC X train if they are booked on another TOC's advance dedicated ticket?
A. No. Dedicated TOC tickets (="TOC X only") do exactly what gthey say on the ticket. However, during times of disruption, retail and on-train staff should use their discretion, as advised by their control offiice.
Q24. Can a passenger travel on a TOC X train if they are booked on another TOCs Advance ticket e.g. "TOC Y & connections"?
A. As a connecting TOC into the main TOC shown in the routeing on the ticket - Yes.
As a replacement of the main TOC shown on the ticket - No. (However, during times of disruption, retail and on-train staff should use their discretion, as advised by their control office.
Please note that "TOC & connections" tickets are not the same a s'dedicated' tickets and should be treated differently. TOC & connections simply meas the majority of the journey should be made on the TOC shown and local connections. Unfortunately not all journey planners understand the meaning of "the majority of", and sometimes the 'majority' might be a relatiively small portion of the journey. But it works both ways as all TOCs can be affected and it all balances out.....
Q25. Can passengers on an advance ticket travel on earlier connecting trains?
A. Yes if it is non-reservable, no if it is reservable.
An exception that benefits customers: Where East Coast is a connecting TOC from Stevenage via London and vice versa e.g "AP London Reading" or "VWC & connections", East Coast waives the need for travel on the exact East Coast train booked on this relatively short journey Stevenage-Kings Cross, even though retail systems will force a reservation to be made.
....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope this clears up many questions in regard to these tickets (regardless of who was 'right' or not)
Last edited by a moderator: